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leking006
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 Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:33 am Post subject: Laker's Players Real Plus-Minus |
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ESPN already have a data on RPM
#1 Lebron 10.18
#28 Caruso 3.16
#50 AD 2.41
Big 3 indeed!!! 
#73 Rondo 1.87
#74 Howard. 1.86
#110 AB 1.10
#123 DG 1.06
I'm just wandering why AD has low RPM. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:10 am Post subject: |
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^ Give it a month to normalize. It looks like the model is attributing part of AD's impact to Lebron.
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defense
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Caruso should make the all star team
28th best player in the league |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | Caruso should make the all star team
28th best player in the league |
There are only 24 slots.
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| carusgod should start! |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Laker's Players Real Plus-Minus |
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| leking006 wrote: | ESPN already have a data on RPM
#1 Lebron 10.18
#28 Caruso 3.16
#50 AD 2.41
Big 3 indeed!!!
#73 Rondo 1.87
#74 Howard. 1.86
#110 AB 1.10
#123 DG 1.06
I'm just wandering why AD has low RPM. |
I knew AD was lower than Lebron's, but I didn't know it was that low. Also team has often lost leads once Lebron sits. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Laker's Players Real Plus-Minus |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | leking006 wrote: | ESPN already have a data on RPM
#1 Lebron 10.18
#28 Caruso 3.16
#50 AD 2.41
Big 3 indeed!!!
#73 Rondo 1.87
#74 Howard. 1.86
#110 AB 1.10
#123 DG 1.06
I'm just wandering why AD has low RPM. |
I knew AD was lower than Lebron's, but I didn't know it was that low. Also team has often lost leads once Lebron sits. |
LeBron and Rondo are the only other two playmakers, and Rondo has only played a significant role in about 9 games so far.
EDIT: So much for the theory of Rondo helping AD, when they play together without LeBron the net rating is practically neutral.
Last edited by Laker_Dynasty_01 on Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| Teams do make runs when LeBron sits, hope, I wish actually, Kuzma can calm his nerves and be that 3rd guy 15-18ppg like a big Lou |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Teams do make runs when LeBron sits, hope, I wish actually, Kuzma can calm his nerves and be that 3rd guy 15-18ppg like a big Lou |
Kuzma plays best with Rondo on the floor, or LeBron, but seems to struggle with AD or Dwight. Guess he can't even play alongside one big, maybe he needs to be in a 5-out offense? |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| The eye test does not accurately reflect the drpm of AD. Maybe I just remember his clutch defensive play but it’s really too low. |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Cranjis went in on the Lakers roster and it’s a great read for those that have time.
Magictweet/Cliff notes/tldr: We’re in trouble if either Bron or AD go down. But if one had to go down as sacrificie to the bball gawd, it better be AD, cause without Bron, we washed. So it’sa good thing we exploited our early schedule if/when adversity hits.
https://www.bball-index.com/laker-check-in/ |
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FrankUnderwood
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| ADs impact defensively is not being picked up properly by ESPNs DRPM. And overall Bron is getting a little more credit in RPM and AD not getting nearly enough. It's still early in the season the numbers might start to actually reflect what is happening on the court in a few weeks but as of now it is not very accurate. |
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| The lack of playmaker outside of LBJ hurts AD a lot. |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Cranjis went in on the Lakers roster and it’s a great read for those that have time.
Magictweet/Cliff notes/tldr: We’re in trouble if either Bron or AD go down. But if one had to go down as sacrificie to the bball gawd, it better be AD, cause without Bron, we washed. So it’sa good thing we exploited our early schedule if/when adversity hits.
https://www.bball-index.com/laker-check-in/ |
Yeah I agree about that. We won’t win anyway if one goes down so I’ll probably roll the dice . I don’t think we can get a legit third option any way at this point. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Here is the likely source of the statistical aberration:
http://www.82games.com/1920/1920LAL.HTM
Davis actually has a -2.8 net +/- even though he is crushing his opponents (+24.4 net production). This means that any APM metric is going to need time and lots of data to account for the substitution patterns.
On the other hand, this highlights what kind of effect Lebron has on the team. |
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leking006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Here is the likely source of the statistical aberration:
http://www.82games.com/1920/1920LAL.HTM
Davis actually has a -2.8 net +/- even though he is crushing his opponents (+24.4 net production). This means that any APM metric is going to need time and lots of data to account for the substitution patterns.
On the other hand, this highlights what kind of effect Lebron has on the team. |
The reason AD is -2.8 is maybe because Lakers usually have a run during the first 6 minutes of the 2nd Q and 4th Q where AD is usually sitting while during the last minute of the 1st and 3rd, when Lebron sits and AD remains in the court with no playmaker (when Rondo not playing) they kinda struggled. Also during this time AD is playing together with non defensive players like Kuzma, Daniels or Cook. That I think what affected AD's On Court +/-. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Laker's Players Real Plus-Minus |
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| leking006 wrote: |
I'm just wandering why AD has low RPM. |
one big reason is that DRPM is a garbage stat.....AD is often mentioned as a DPOY contender and his DRPM is 1.0. Alex Caruso is 3.79 and Lebron is 3.72. Btw, that well known defensive monster Will Barton leads the league in DRPM @ 5.08!  |
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Mamba81
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Laker's Players Real Plus-Minus |
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| adkindo wrote: | | leking006 wrote: |
I'm just wandering why AD has low RPM. |
one big reason is that DRPM is a garbage stat.....AD is often mentioned as a DPOY contender and his DRPM is 1.0. Alex Caruso is 3.79 and Lebron is 3.72. Btw, that well known defensive monster Will Barton leads the league in DRPM @ 5.08! |
his dbpm 4.0!!
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Mamba81
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: |
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never liked rpm!! always felt like bball ref advanced is better!!
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leking006
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamba81 wrote: | | never liked rpm!! always felt like bball ref advanced is better!! |
Yep, +/- stats and drtng doesn't measure the value of the defense of the individual. It mostly depends on who's with you on the court.
I would rather base it on stats.nba defense dashboard.
https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/ |
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defense
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | Cranjis went in on the Lakers roster and it’s a great read for those that have time.
Magictweet/Cliff notes/tldr: We’re in trouble if either Bron or AD go down. But if one had to go down as sacrificie to the bball gawd, it better be AD, cause without Bron, we washed. So it’sa good thing we exploited our early schedule if/when adversity hits.
https://www.bball-index.com/laker-check-in/ |
If harden goes down
If jokic goes down
If Leonard goes down
If Giannis goes down
If Embiid goes down
Its the same for all the best teams. This isn't unique to the Lakers |
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vasashi17+
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Cranjis went in on the Lakers roster and it’s a great read for those that have time.
Magictweet/Cliff notes/tldr: We’re in trouble if either Bron or AD go down. But if one had to go down as sacrificie to the bball gawd, it better be AD, cause without Bron, we washed. So it’sa good thing we exploited our early schedule if/when adversity hits.
https://www.bball-index.com/laker-check-in/ |
If harden goes down
If jokic goes down
If Leonard goes down
If Giannis goes down
If Embiid goes down
Its the same for all the best teams. This isn't unique to the Lakers |
Harden is 30 and them career playoff legs stay fresh tho
Jokic is 24 and them career playoff legs stay fresh tho
Leonard is 28, has load managed before, has crazy depth in Trez/Lou to keep those playoff legs fresh tho
Giannis is 25 and has that super soldier serum running through his playoff legs fo sho
Embiid is 25 and has Horford to sub in a flinch, uh I mean in a pinch to keep the playoff process a Cbag green go
Meanwhile AD most likely has a torn labrum in his dominant arm that needs managing till summer surgery and Bron about to turn 35 with next to no depth at the forward spot and no playmaking help other than ‘Do
We all Laker fans here, but we can’t be Homers ignoring the intangibles...
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMzIK1AdZJ4cYW4/giphy.gif
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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isn't PIPM the better metric?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | isn't PIPM the better metric? |
I think so, yep.
Some people like RAPTOR because it is adjusted for today’s style of play. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| vasashi17+ wrote: | | defense wrote: | | vasashi17+ wrote: | Cranjis went in on the Lakers roster and it’s a great read for those that have time.
Magictweet/Cliff notes/tldr: We’re in trouble if either Bron or AD go down. But if one had to go down as sacrificie to the bball gawd, it better be AD, cause without Bron, we washed. So it’sa good thing we exploited our early schedule if/when adversity hits.
https://www.bball-index.com/laker-check-in/ |
If harden goes down
If jokic goes down
If Leonard goes down
If Giannis goes down
If Embiid goes down
Its the same for all the best teams. This isn't unique to the Lakers |
Harden is 30 and them career playoff legs stay fresh tho
Jokic is 24 and them career playoff legs stay fresh tho
Leonard is 28, has load managed before, has crazy depth in Trez/Lou to keep those playoff legs fresh tho
Giannis is 25 and has that super soldier serum running through his playoff legs fo sho
Embiid is 25 and has Horford to sub in a flinch, uh I mean in a pinch to keep the playoff process a Cbag green go
Meanwhile AD most likely has a torn labrum in his dominant arm that needs managing till summer surgery and Bron about to turn 35 with next to no depth at the forward spot and no playmaking help other than ‘Do
We all Laker fans here, but we can’t be Homers ignoring the intangibles...
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMzIK1AdZJ4cYW4/giphy.gif
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You're still projecting rosy outlooks for other teams, and pessimistic about own team. They all play basketball, they're all exposed to season ending injuries. The injury God doesn't look at your age. PG13, Hayward, Durant... they weren't old when they got their season ending injuries. |
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