Illegal sports betting and players + referees
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:29 pm    Post subject: Illegal sports betting and players + referees

Got this from reddit, it's almost required watching. He was talking about how players get in money trouble and have to shave points, and he talks about a hypothetical with the Lakers:

"You got a referee in an NBA game, okay. You got the Lakers now favorite to win by 10 points. It's Christmas time. This referee needs some extra money. A referee can call a foul every time these players move down the court or he doesn't have to call it if he misses it. He puts a bet against the spread. How does he manipulate that? He puts Lebron James on the bench with 2 extra, 3 extra fouls."

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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject:

That's certainly possible. After Donaghy, a ref would need to be really careful about this sort of thing, because the NBA is watching. But sure, a clever enough criminal could pull it off for some period of time. There are too many scandals around the world to think otherwise.
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LandsbergerRules
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject:

I could see some Donaghy types do this kinda stuff.
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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:26 pm    Post subject:

I don't think there is any doubt there are more corrupt refs but then all these refs make up the rules as they go so it's hard to tell.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:29 pm    Post subject:

Since sports has been embracing betting more and more, anything is possible.

It’s a dangerous precedent mixing the two more than ever. We just had an NFL player get suspended for betting on game(s).

All these teams are looking for new revenue streams now and are looking at in arena betting kiosks, tables, etc.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject:

Vegas are good at setting spreads, and because they just want action.
I’d imagine a rockets game would be the easiest to bet on because if the ref stop calling fouls against harden, rockets will lose every game
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject:

If there are corrupt refs, they are loners. I don't believe there would be collusion with other refs. To describe Donahy as a rogue corrupt ref was true, but the word rogue is misleading. It implied that there were no more corrupt refs, when there could be. If I'm a corrupt ref, and put a wager on something, the foolproof way in not getting caught is to not collude and to just try and swing the game by myself.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject:

here's Donaghy explaining the process of his corruptness and NBA refs pseudo-currputness. First minute he explains it. He wasn't as corrupt as he's made out to be - says he bet one way or another based on game by game normal ref emphasis, but also on ref-team relationships.. but he also said that Dick Bavetta was the game 6 ref who was always chosen to prolong a series.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject:

If you were a bookie would you take a bet from a ref?
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:53 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
https://youtu.be/g3xMmPht_gw here's Donaghy explaining the process of his corruptness and NBA refs pseudo-currputness. First minute he explains it. He wasn't as corrupt as he's made out to be - says he bet one way or another based on game by game normal ref emphasis, but also on ref-team relationships.. but he also said that Dick Bavetta was the game 6 ref who was always chosen to prolong a series.


That's what Donaghy said, but much of what he said does not hold up. A while back, there was an analysis showing that Donaghy's success as a bettor came on games that he personally officiated. The evidence was pretty strong that he favored the teams that he bet on. The stuff about referee assignments didn't hold up.

It is likely that Donaghy was just a point shaving ref who got busted and that most, if not all, of the other stuff was just an attempt at self-justification. The NBA is happy to go along with Donaghy's story because the alternative is admitting that a ref shaved points right under their noses. That's actually worse than thinking that you could make successful bets based on insider knowledge of ref assignments.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 4:56 pm    Post subject:

I mean.. its reddit.

Even Donaghy didnt do this. So I’m skeptical. But it makes for good internet conspiracying.
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I mean.. its reddit.

Even Donaghy didnt do this. So I’m skeptical. But it makes for good internet conspiracying.


It's Michael Franzese, a former member of the mob, being interviewed by VladTV
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LAII
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Illegal sports betting and players + referees

drae wrote:
Got this from reddit, it's almost required watching. He was talking about how players get in money trouble and have to shave points, and he talks about a hypothetical with the Lakers:

"You got a referee in an NBA game, okay. You got the Lakers now favorite to win by 10 points. It's Christmas time. This referee needs some extra money. A referee can call a foul every time these players move down the court or he doesn't have to call it if he misses it. He puts a bet against the spread. How does he manipulate that? He puts Lebron James on the bench with 2 extra, 3 extra fouls."



Lots of people have similar opportunites to enrich themselves in their profession. Few of us take the risk that an NBA ref would be taking by betting on a game or faciliating those who were. Ref's are under a microscope with the league AND the Feds looking up their ass. Something like that you don't get fired. You go to prison.
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Daikatana
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject:

hmmmm. .

Why does the referee need to bet it himself? Can use outside people to do his bidding. . .

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Runway8
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:51 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If you were a bookie would you take a bet from a ref?


If I decide to swing a game and wager on it, it wouldn't be me who's calling a bookie.
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Metro2Staples
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject:

Only the sharpest books take sharp action. They know what to do with the information.

thanks for posting, @drae

venturalakersfan wrote:
If you were a bookie would you take a bet from a ref?
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Metro2Staples
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:11 pm    Post subject:

"So you knew Tim while he was gambling?"

Answer: "No, I knew him afterwards, NOT while he was gambling."
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:17 pm    Post subject:

Metro2Staples wrote:
"So you knew Tim while he was gambling?"

Answer: "No, I knew him afterwards, NOT while he was gambling."


Heh xD
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:38 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
I mean.. its reddit.

Even Donaghy didnt do this. So I’m skeptical. But it makes for good internet conspiracying.


It's Michael Franzese, a former member of the mob, being interviewed by VladTV


Still not buying it.
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Metro2Staples
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:40 pm    Post subject:

34:30 he starts talks about point shaving:


college BBall players mostly these days.....
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AirKobe8
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:27 am    Post subject:

I once got the chance to talk in depth about this matter with a guy who played 4 years of college ball and then 5-6 years in the NBA. He was a lottery pick who turned into a bust.

He openly admitted to taking money under the table during college and controlling the end of games because of the spread. He had a guy who used to pay him to do so. He was the focal point of his team's offense in college, so he managed to control most of the action. He said when he turned pro they wanted him to keep doing it, but he stopped doing so. He also said this happens a lot, and that pro players have way more financial trouble than we know, specially the younger ones.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:56 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
If you were a bookie would you take a bet from a ref?


If I decide to swing a game and wager on it, it wouldn't be me who's calling a bookie.


Bingo. Just use a friend as a middle man.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject:

Techs, charges vs. blocking calls, off ball defense, over the back, defensive 3 in the key, illegal screens. I could go on and on. These things are all up to reffing discretion.
I'm sure a ref has shaved points in a game. Heck the other refs in that game wouldn't even be 100% sure it was on purpose. And even if the clean refs do know. It's in their best interest to keep their mouths shut.
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:25 am    Post subject:

I like what Tim said about Dick.
Maybe Dick wasn't calling the game to purposely prolong games.
But something inside him just made for him to call games for the underdog?
The NBA could have looked at the data and just gone with refs who helped force game 7s.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:31 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
If you were a bookie would you take a bet from a ref?


If I decide to swing a game and wager on it, it wouldn't be me who's calling a bookie.


Bingo. Just use a friend as a middle man.


I guess I wouldn’t be your friend for long after I keep the money from my bet.
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