I once got the chance to talk in depth about this matter with a guy who played 4 years of college ball and then 5-6 years in the NBA. He was a lottery pick who turned into a bust.
He openly admitted to taking money under the table during college and controlling the end of games because of the spread. He had a guy who used to pay him to do so. He was the focal point of his team's offense in college, so he managed to control most of the action. He said when he turned pro they wanted him to keep doing it, but he stopped doing so. He also said this happens a lot, and that pro players have way more financial trouble than we know, specially the younger ones.
I can see this happening in college, but not the pros. The players who can reliably affect the score of a game make so much money it's hard to see why they would jeopardize it by betting.
Unless you're a star, you can't even be sure you'll be in at the end of a game.
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Illegal sports betting and players + referees
drae wrote:
Got this from reddit, it's almost required watching. He was talking about how players get in money trouble and have to shave points, and he talks about a hypothetical with the Lakers:
"You got a referee in an NBA game, okay. You got the Lakers now favorite to win by 10 points. It's Christmas time. This referee needs some extra money. A referee can call a foul every time these players move down the court or he doesn't have to call it if he misses it. He puts a bet against the spread. How does he manipulate that? He puts Lebron James on the bench with 2 extra, 3 extra fouls."
Putting the Lakers name in there got it more clicks and attention but it can work the other way as well, such as giving the Lakers better calls so they beat the spread, etc. I would hope no one is doing that but with how much money is at stake, it wouldn't shock me.
Do we really need more of these conspiracy theories going? Lakers have been benefitting from some nice blown calls late in games this year. The NBA admitted a bunch of them in the end of the Miami game.
NBA refs make as much as 550K/year... combine that with only working about 8 months out of the year and that is a very good setup that I doubt there more than 1-2 bad seeds that are willing to risk it all for illegal gambling to make a few more nickles. _________________ (bleep) Kawhi
Have you ever gambled on sports. Easy to lose 5-10K in a night and get buried for 50K or more in the course of a week.
I believe what Franzese said....and the bit about Michael Jordan is also very interesting, covered in a different video.
audioaxes wrote:
NBA refs make as much as 550K/year... combine that with only working about 8 months out of the year and that is a very good setup that I doubt there more than 1-2 bad seeds that are willing to risk it all for illegal gambling to make a few more nickles.
People must lost a lot of money yesterday on the bucks
The Suns have been whining about losing 3 games by a point purely because of the refs. Yesterday the refs called Valentine for his 5th foul when he was literally 4 meters away from the play (play happened under the basket and he was guarding the man in the corner), saw the play on review and didn't change it.
People must lost a lot of money yesterday on the bucks
The Suns have been whining about losing 3 games by a point purely because of the refs. Yesterday the refs called Valentine for his 5th foul when he was literally 4 meters away from the play (play happened under the basket and he was guarding the man in the corner), saw the play on review and didn't change it.
I mean ... it's not out of the question
Not out of the question, but your very post shows why it would be difficult to do on an ongoing basis,
Lots of gamblers track ref behavior, and they analyze whether the games they call beat the spread. I'm sure the NBA does too. If a ref did this over and over, people (including the NBA) would notice.
People must lost a lot of money yesterday on the bucks
The Suns have been whining about losing 3 games by a point purely because of the refs. Yesterday the refs called Valentine for his 5th foul when he was literally 4 meters away from the play (play happened under the basket and he was guarding the man in the corner), saw the play on review and didn't change it.
I mean ... it's not out of the question
Not out of the question, but your very post shows why it would be difficult to do on an ongoing basis,
Lots of gamblers track ref behavior, and they analyze whether the games they call beat the spread. I'm sure the NBA does too. If a ref did this over and over, people (including the NBA) would notice.
Wouldn't have to be done over and over. A few games would be enough to pay off debts
I once got the chance to talk in depth about this matter with a guy who played 4 years of college ball and then 5-6 years in the NBA. He was a lottery pick who turned into a bust.
He openly admitted to taking money under the table during college and controlling the end of games because of the spread. He had a guy who used to pay him to do so. He was the focal point of his team's offense in college, so he managed to control most of the action. He said when he turned pro they wanted him to keep doing it, but he stopped doing so. He also said this happens a lot, and that pro players have way more financial trouble than we know, specially the younger ones.
I can see this happening in college, but not the pros. The players who can reliably affect the score of a game make so much money it's hard to see why they would jeopardize it by betting.
Unless you're a star, you can't even be sure you'll be in at the end of a game.
The star on a team is making way too much. Even guys like Devin Booker make $25M+. How are you going to bribe him? Why would he want to risk everything for, let's say, $100k?
And if you're offering him a $1M or $2M to throw a game, how much are you betting on a meaningless basketball game? $5M? $10M? No one bets that much and the size of the bet alone will trip alerts.
Wanna know the easiest game to fix? TENNIS. And even then, the top players aren't fixing the matches.
Was always a street rumor, but ended up finding an actual article about it. Back in the 80's some Detroit mob guys paid off the timekeeper to add seconds or vice versa to dictate the over/under. Guess it was true. Article from 1987:
NBA refs make as much as 550K/year... combine that with only working about 8 months out of the year and that is a very good setup that I doubt there more than 1-2 bad seeds that are willing to risk it all for illegal gambling to make a few more nickles.
Are refs allowed to write books/do interviews? Are they silenced by NDAs? I'm sure they have a lot of behind the scenes knowledge and stories. _________________ Lakers. Built different.
Even Donaghy didnt do this. So I’m skeptical. But it makes for good internet conspiracying.
It's Michael Franzese, a former member of the mob, being interviewed by VladTV
Still not buying it.
I work in the industry. It happens. Doesn’t mean it’s crippling in any way - point shaving has no real change in the outcome of the game. It just burns the degenerates.
NBA refs make as much as 550K/year... combine that with only working about 8 months out of the year and that is a very good setup that I doubt there more than 1-2 bad seeds that are willing to risk it all for illegal gambling to make a few more nickles.
I don’t think it’s the refs. I think it’s the players.
I would lean towards the players are more likely too.
How easy is have a bad shooting night and go 1-6. Or be a little out of position and a half assed attempt to stop an and 1 opportunity. Maybe a few sloppy passes for turnovers. Or just didn’t get that key rebound.
Players still control the game. More likely they would be able to effect the game too.
And the logic of “players make too much money” is questionable. The leverage against the player to point shave may be with a family member, one of his friends, bad financial decisions, concern of someone revealing past deeds or simply greed.
Refs can be susceptible but there are more players with less chance of being caught. How would you “prove” a player going 1-6 or with a couple of key TOs.
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