In Memory of Kobe Bryant
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P.K.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject:

Here's a photo NTSB released of the actual c*ckpit & instrument panel from the helicopter...

in earlier posts some LG'grs had asked about the instruments. This looks like a 1991 era panel with original type gauges. The radios appear to be updated, but isn't a integrated electronic flight deck and doesn't appear to have a moving map capability. Note that this is perfectly legal for VFR (and IFR) flight - it's just not the latest and greatest avionics out there.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/08/heres-what-happened-minutes-before-kobe-bryants-helicopter-crash-killing-all-aboard/
(you have to scroll to the 2nd photo)

the caption from the photo
"The National Transportation Safety Board released an updated report on Friday, Feb. 7 giving details of the wreckage of the helicopter crash where Kobe Bryant and eight others died on Jan. 26. In it they released images. One of them, seen here, shows previously taken photographs of the (bleep) of the helicopter. (Photo courtesy of the National Transportation Safety Board)"
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Last edited by P.K. on Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:11 pm    Post subject:

Kirby Brian wrote:
ViolaMB wrote:
i hope the NTSB or whoever somehow find out why did Zobayan just suddenly descent down so fast, it can't just be a simple mistake if we see just how much the guy flew and had a crazy amount of experience and all. i need some sort of closure and a (bleep) reason what happened towards the end...


It's been discussed several times. Just watch this, man.

Watch at the 1:20 mark. The pilot was tricked and so surprised that he wasn't turning.

I image that was similar foggy conditions they were experiencing too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItbdXSiElc


Thanks for posting this.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:30 pm    Post subject:

Kobe and Gianna's birth certificates have been made public.

It says disposition date was Friday 2/7/2020. The disposition date is the date of burial, cremation or entombment. That means Kobe and Gigi's funeral was on 2/7/2020. They are already buried.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:02 pm    Post subject:

Was anybody able to pick up the Kobe Bryant Time magazine issue? I can't find it anywhere in store and can't seem to find a link to purchase online.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:27 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Tesla wrote:

The NTSB reports (2)4 person benches facing each other. And 2 pit seats. The video with the reporter that took the same helicopter 2 months ago with Ara says they also had 9, but one was in the pit with the pilot, I wonder if they had 9 passengers plus pilot or 8 + pilot like Kobe’s flight, just wondering if indeed someone was upfront with the Pilot or not.

The last photo into the fog that NTSB report shows is supposedly 2 miles from the crash location, and is reportedly about 2 minutes from crash. So crazy that its above the highway with visual of the ground and then climbs into the clouds and then disaster hits with what couldve have easily been a uneventful flight.

Another question I have is it seems that this route was NOT the route that the pilot took many times, this was a route he was not as familiar with which he was rerouted on when he was held in burbank, anyone confirm that?

Keep in mind the reporter in that video looked like he was flying with all adults - some of who looked a little large. Kobe's flight had kids, so they would have had more seating space in the passenger compartment. It's a pretty good bet that in less than optimal visibility conditions the pilot didn't want anyone in the c*ckpit distracting him either.

Other reports showed flight paths for previous flights Kobe took, and they were much more direct from John Wayne to Camarillo airport.
When there is weather & limited visibility, ATC will increase the spacing between flights and landings at airports. When they do this, they'll generally keep VFR flights far out of the approach paths to major airports. What likely happened was that ATC wouldn't let them anywhere near LAX when they had heavies inbound. So, he had to fly further east than normal.
There was a comment on this in some previous article somewhere


Ya makes sense with the children on board that everyone would have been together in the rear, I hope we do at some point get clarification if anyone else was in front with the pilot, although it seems like its something we may never know.

Ya, I think it not being a regular area he flies through also may have a been a major contributing factor combined with the fog.

Another thought is how would the helicopter act if he had a medical emergency? It wouldn't have turned and sped up the way it did I suppose? Might be a stupid thought but any chance someone else may have flown it due to medical emergency to the pilot?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:23 am    Post subject:

Tesla wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Tesla wrote:

The NTSB reports (2)4 person benches facing each other. And 2 pit seats. The video with the reporter that took the same helicopter 2 months ago with Ara says they also had 9, but one was in the pit with the pilot, I wonder if they had 9 passengers plus pilot or 8 + pilot like Kobe’s flight, just wondering if indeed someone was upfront with the Pilot or not.

The last photo into the fog that NTSB report shows is supposedly 2 miles from the crash location, and is reportedly about 2 minutes from crash. So crazy that its above the highway with visual of the ground and then climbs into the clouds and then disaster hits with what couldve have easily been a uneventful flight.

Another question I have is it seems that this route was NOT the route that the pilot took many times, this was a route he was not as familiar with which he was rerouted on when he was held in burbank, anyone confirm that?

Keep in mind the reporter in that video looked like he was flying with all adults - some of who looked a little large. Kobe's flight had kids, so they would have had more seating space in the passenger compartment. It's a pretty good bet that in less than optimal visibility conditions the pilot didn't want anyone in the c*ckpit distracting him either.

Other reports showed flight paths for previous flights Kobe took, and they were much more direct from John Wayne to Camarillo airport.
When there is weather & limited visibility, ATC will increase the spacing between flights and landings at airports. When they do this, they'll generally keep VFR flights far out of the approach paths to major airports. What likely happened was that ATC wouldn't let them anywhere near LAX when they had heavies inbound. So, he had to fly further east than normal.
There was a comment on this in some previous article somewhere


Ya makes sense with the children on board that everyone would have been together in the rear, I hope we do at some point get clarification if anyone else was in front with the pilot, although it seems like its something we may never know.

Ya, I think it not being a regular area he flies through also may have a been a major contributing factor combined with the fog.

Another thought is how would the helicopter act if he had a medical emergency? It wouldn't have turned and sped up the way it did I suppose? Might be a stupid thought but any chance someone else may have flown it due to medical emergency to the pilot?

Someone on Twitter saved the FlightRadar24.com data on this.
The pilot normally didn't overfly the Burbank or Van Nuys airports, but did fly out the 101 - so the area where he crashed is actually his normal route
https://twitter.com/priyakkumar/status/1221981259703828481
(this may also explain why he didn't just go out the 118 to Simi Valley when he was already up at the 118 north of Van Nuys. He was familiar with the 101 route and was probably more comfortable flying that)

in answer to your last question: 99.99% probability of no. for one thing, the passengers were separated from the c*ckpit by a partition wall you can see in the that FOXLA video. So, no one could have gotten up there - especially not in the very few seconds available.

for another, there is absolutely no chance that a non-helicopter pilot could even begin to fly a helicopter with no stick time. Pilots transitioning from fixed wing planes to helicopters usually take a considerable amount of training before they can keep a helicopter in coordinated flight.

But, that's a small secondary issue anyway - the partition blocking access to the c*ckpit all but eliminates even the slimmest possibility.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:42 am    Post subject:

Just wanted to say Thank You to Everyone in this thread.
And Thank you especially to those who took the time and shared their experience and expertise and helped answer questions for us all.


I sit here feeling like we all share something GREAT WITHIN US

I feel like each one of us is like Professor X sitting at Cerebro
seeing all of those in the world who have the Mamba Venom in them.
And then I thought of "Wonder Twin powers Activate" They wore the Purple and Gold too

There is a community here beyond what your eyes see.
People here who care and give and are ready to help if they can.
I have always appreciated their wisdom and contributions.

I have heard it said that one of the greatest prayers is only two words
"Thank You"
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Just wanted to say Thank You to Everyone in this thread.
And Thank you especially to those who took the time and shared their experience and expertise and helped answer questions for us all.


I sit here feeling like we all share something GREAT WITHIN US

I feel like each one of us is like Professor X sitting at Cerebro
seeing all of those in the world who have the Mamba Venom in them.
And then I thought of "Wonder Twin powers Activate" They wore the Purple and Gold too

There is a community here beyond what your eyes see.
People here who care and give and are ready to help if they can.
I have always appreciated their wisdom and contributions.

I have heard it said that one of the greatest prayers is only two words
"Thank You"


Touché.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:32 am    Post subject:

Altobelli Memorial Service

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3f1hy-9xM

Sleep peacefully.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:31 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Tesla wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Tesla wrote:

The NTSB reports (2)4 person benches facing each other. And 2 pit seats. The video with the reporter that took the same helicopter 2 months ago with Ara says they also had 9, but one was in the pit with the pilot, I wonder if they had 9 passengers plus pilot or 8 + pilot like Kobe’s flight, just wondering if indeed someone was upfront with the Pilot or not.

The last photo into the fog that NTSB report shows is supposedly 2 miles from the crash location, and is reportedly about 2 minutes from crash. So crazy that its above the highway with visual of the ground and then climbs into the clouds and then disaster hits with what couldve have easily been a uneventful flight.

Another question I have is it seems that this route was NOT the route that the pilot took many times, this was a route he was not as familiar with which he was rerouted on when he was held in burbank, anyone confirm that?

Keep in mind the reporter in that video looked like he was flying with all adults - some of who looked a little large. Kobe's flight had kids, so they would have had more seating space in the passenger compartment. It's a pretty good bet that in less than optimal visibility conditions the pilot didn't want anyone in the c*ckpit distracting him either.

Other reports showed flight paths for previous flights Kobe took, and they were much more direct from John Wayne to Camarillo airport.
When there is weather & limited visibility, ATC will increase the spacing between flights and landings at airports. When they do this, they'll generally keep VFR flights far out of the approach paths to major airports. What likely happened was that ATC wouldn't let them anywhere near LAX when they had heavies inbound. So, he had to fly further east than normal.
There was a comment on this in some previous article somewhere


Ya makes sense with the children on board that everyone would have been together in the rear, I hope we do at some point get clarification if anyone else was in front with the pilot, although it seems like its something we may never know.

Ya, I think it not being a regular area he flies through also may have a been a major contributing factor combined with the fog.

Another thought is how would the helicopter act if he had a medical emergency? It wouldn't have turned and sped up the way it did I suppose? Might be a stupid thought but any chance someone else may have flown it due to medical emergency to the pilot?

Someone on Twitter saved the FlightRadar24.com data on this.
The pilot normally didn't overfly the Burbank or Van Nuys airports, but did fly out the 101 - so the area where he crashed is actually his normal route
https://twitter.com/priyakkumar/status/1221981259703828481
(this may also explain why he didn't just go out the 118 to Simi Valley when he was already up at the 118 north of Van Nuys. He was familiar with the 101 route and was probably more comfortable flying that)

in answer to your last question: 99.99% probability of no. for one thing, the passengers were separated from the c*ckpit by a partition wall you can see in the that FOXLA video. So, no one could have gotten up there - especially not in the very few seconds available.

for another, there is absolutely no chance that a non-helicopter pilot could even begin to fly a helicopter with no stick time. Pilots transitioning from fixed wing planes to helicopters usually take a considerable amount of training before they can keep a helicopter in coordinated flight.

But, that's a small secondary issue anyway - the partition blocking access to the c*ckpit all but eliminates even the slimmest possibility.



Thanks P.K.

Ya all makes sense. I suppose thats why I am wondering a little if someone else sat with the pilot up in the pit.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject:

New video of the helicopter taking off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXhLmc_POfE
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:49 pm    Post subject:

CBS News Exclusive: New Video Shows Scene Immediately After Kobe Bryant's Helicopter Crashes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38oB0bU9PFs
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:32 pm    Post subject:

PK, what do you think of the term graveyard spiral?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

In reading up on Spatial Disorientation... under the section "effects of disorientation," there's something called the graveyard spiral. It seems to be describing what happened to Kobe's pilot. Crazy that it has happened enough to have a term for it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:43 pm    Post subject:

First forum of any kind I ever joined was this one at 14 years old and now I’m almost 30. Kobe turned me into a huge basketball fan and Laker fan. Crazy how life works. RIP to Kobe. That phrase will never sit right with me
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:59 pm    Post subject:

I usually get drunk and cry over girls. This is the first time I got drunk since that cursed day and I am a wreck watching Kobe highlights, how can one person I never met leave such a profound impact on me that even without having a single conversation the man changed my life. Despite the fact that I never met him, him not being around us bothers me so much. I always felt like one day I was gonna meet Kobe and just the fact that I was able to be in the same building as him means so much to me you guys wouldn’t understand. Maybe it’s the liqour talking but in this moment if god asked me “would you give up your life if it meant Kobe was alive” I swear to god id say yes without even spending 1 second to think about it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:38 am    Post subject:

This man got to the top of the mountain. In my humble opinion, he was a winner at life. I’m grateful. Shoot for the moon, and you’ll end up amongst the stars.

Basketball is why we know him, but I respect him for so much more. The drive to be great, the mindset, the intelligence, mental and physical toughness, no excuses, recognizing the importance of passing on to the next generations. Listening to this man speak for 1 hour is as invaluable as anything.

As much as I loved watching him on the court, I was even more excited about the things he was doing after his legendary career (vs MJ 1 on 1 tho, gimme Kobe.) He was helping shift my perspective on Women’s basketball through Gianna, his storytelling through books and a kids podcast would have no doubt took me to a theater on a Friday night, giving the current generation too much in Detail pushes Giannis and company to surpass him, and most of all as a family man. His wife adored him in a way that can’t be faked from what I saw. The only thing to sacrifice was sleep so he could take his daughters to school.

I can only take my own old man and Kobe as examples as fathers and try to be the very best I can. I hope they have at least shook hands in Heaven.

Kobe taught me life is a library if you keep your eyes open and to make the connection between greatness in your desired field and another.

Long live, Kobe and Gianna Bryant.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:12 am    Post subject:

Villain6Activated wrote:
I usually get drunk and cry over girls. This is the first time I got drunk since that cursed day and I am a wreck watching Kobe highlights, how can one person I never met leave such a profound impact on me that even without having a single conversation the man changed my life. Despite the fact that I never met him, him not being around us bothers me so much. I always felt like one day I was gonna meet Kobe and just the fact that I was able to be in the same building as him means so much to me you guys wouldn’t understand. Maybe it’s the liqour talking but in this moment if god asked me “would you give up your life if it meant Kobe was alive” I swear to god id say yes without even spending 1 second to think about it.


Dude, I am with you in how you feel about our boy Kobe.
I agree 💯 and relate with every single word you just wrote except the last sentence. I got a daughter to raise.
But your heart is broken, man. It’s been surreal for SO many of us.

Peace Love and Power unto you, Brother 💜🙏💜

I call Kobe the POV ( The Personification of Victory )
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:36 am    Post subject:

At 2:15, you can see him and his girls inside his helicopter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nO-feAJE6Q
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:40 am    Post subject:

Longtime lurker of the forum, first time posting (I don't know exactly if this is the correct thread but it seemed appropriate).

This maybe a TLDR for some
This is in no disrepect intended to the other lives lost; each one no less and no more important than the other I sincerely believe all are resting at peace; no pain, suffering etc.

In saying that:
Following the Lakers for over 20 years from a young child to a mid 20's adult one thing was always synonymous with the Lakers and that was always Kobe Bryant. I have never found it logical to be able to grieve someone you haven't met or known on a personal basis; but I guess this is maybe why its different than other celebrity deaths to some extent because Kobe grew up right in front of my and by default our eyes, from a 17 year old entering the NBA all the way to elder statesmen and retired.

His insane work ethic and drive have impacted me for a large part of my life and made me always strive to improve that there is always something that can be improved, he was a true student never content with what his current knowledge or ability was. A loose quote he made to paraphrase him that stuck with me was that reporters and fan expectations never phased him because his own standards of himself were always higher anyway (you can't be a bigger critic than he was of himself in other words).
Kobe was not perfect none of us are; I'm not touching off field stuff ie the accusations nor imparting any personal opinion on them, even on the basketball court he would make you love him (and just as much at times frustrate and make you pull your hair out at times), he was nothing if not polarising, and at times over so many years and ups and downs he definitely brought every spectrum of human emotion out good and bad.

It still feels surreal that someone I have spent so many years watching; listening to interviews and being a fan of is gone long before his time, it felt surreal when he was retiring, I stayed up until 3AM in holiday in the U.S til the end of the broadcast of his last game - that feeling of surrealness about him retiring - a life without Kobe Bryant for the Lakers was just about unknown was nothing compared to the surrealness of the past few weeks of him and the others passing away.
Kobe's attitude; work ethic and dedication to honing his craft have always motivated myself and I have no doubt so many others to keep pursuing your goals and improving both yourself and your trade and even simply your relationships.

I'm sure a part of Kobe Bryant would have loved the poetry of being one of those "immortalised dying before their time" which is already how a lot are thinking of him - but there's no doubt this is definitely not the way he'd have wanted it to happen.

On the court; he was a warrior, a winner, a never say die character, who had unwavering self confidence in his abilities, 5 championships - MVP - Finals MVP (career avg of 26 that taking out his first couple years and post injury final years would have been higher), yet his impact goes beyond the court and has touched so many in a far more personal way.

His impact went beyond basketball - despite not knowing him personally his life was lived out almost completely in the public eye to the point we all to an extent did know him, he even said what was the point of a biobliography because everyone's seen his life for good or bad what can be added.
He almost felt superhuman at times - I thought to myself when I heard the news if anyone would survive -it'd be Kobe with that iron will; that stubborn and immovable confidence if anyone could - he would, he'd always be the one that could beat the odds - but this time unfortunately he didn't.

Basketball for me has not quite felt the same - I will always love the Lakers as a team and support them rather than any one player - but it hasn't felt quite the same without Kobe Bryant playing. He packed more into 41 years of life than many get the chance to in entire lifetimes.

Thank you Kobe for giving 20 years of your life to the franchise we all love supporting - for the success of 5 championships; for everything good bad and that came with it, for the "Mamba mentality",
for making us fall in love with basketball every time we watched you play.
You were one of a kind; mercurial, enigmatic, iconic, but above all downright irreplaceable.

Thank you for giving the Purple and Gold blood; sweat, tears and doing the jersey proud for so many years and giving the fans so many unforgettable moments.
The Lakers lost a favourite son; fans lost an idol, Vanessa a husband, children - a father.

Rest in Peace Kobe - you will never be forgotten.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject:

IT STILL HURTS!

/ROAR!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject:

Black20Ice wrote:
At 2:15, you can see him and his girls inside his helicopter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nO-feAJE6Q

FYI: at 2:15 that's a plane, not a helicopter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
PK, what do you think of the term graveyard spiral?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

In reading up on Spatial Disorientation... under the section "effects of disorientation," there's something called the graveyard spiral. It seems to be describing what happened to Kobe's pilot. Crazy that it has happened enough to have a term for it.

I've never heard the term death spiral before
mostly I've heard or read about people that roll the aircraft entirely inverted (eg JFK Jr), or who have stalled out while turning and enter into a flat spin, or who have gone into a gradual turn taking them way off course until they run into the proverbial rock filled cloud.
That being said, after reading that link you provided, 72EX didn't really meet the criteria in there although on the surface it might appear a little similar
For one thing, he wasn't really tightening his turn - I think he began that turn right after Las Virgenes because he knew that if he continued due west the mountains angled southward in front of him. For another, he wasn't in a turn induced loss of altitude, he actually went from nose up to nose down
After saying that though, I am not an expert at this, and very well could be interpreting his flight path and altitude changes incorrectly.
I'll also say that I don't think we'll ever know exactly what happened. Even the NTSB reports on this will probably be general conclusions and we'll probably see them say "possible disorientation due to clouds leading to controlled flight into terrain"
in other words - they won't know for certain either.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
PK, what do you think of the term graveyard spiral?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

In reading up on Spatial Disorientation... under the section "effects of disorientation," there's something called the graveyard spiral. It seems to be describing what happened to Kobe's pilot. Crazy that it has happened enough to have a term for it.



There is an episode of Mad Men - first half of Season 7 where Ted is flying his plane to upstate New York and Don is with him. Ted talks about when you are in the clouds you can think you are right side up when you are actually upside down. (He may make a reference to the instruments, but I can't recall, I may be merging with things I read about with this situation).

It just seems to me like he was elevating through/above the fog and became disoriented, and then shifted the wrong way (heading down, while thinking he was going up). Since roughly the day after the crash, I've thought about that Mad Men episode. Otherwise, I would have no context to relate this tragedy to.


Once the NTSB confirmed it wasn't mechanical failure, it was hard to not believe that the pilot became disoriented and went the wrong way.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:24 pm    Post subject:

UKUGA wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
PK, what do you think of the term graveyard spiral?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_disorientation

In reading up on Spatial Disorientation... under the section "effects of disorientation," there's something called the graveyard spiral. It seems to be describing what happened to Kobe's pilot. Crazy that it has happened enough to have a term for it.

There is an episode of Mad Men - first half of Season 7 where Ted is flying his plane to upstate New York and Don is with him. Ted talks about when you are in the clouds you can think you are right side up when you are actually upside down. (He may make a reference to the instruments, but I can't recall, I may be merging with things I read about with this situation).

It just seems to me like he was elevating through/above the fog and became disoriented, and then shifted the wrong way (heading down, while thinking he was going up). Since roughly the day after the crash, I've thought about that Mad Men episode. Otherwise, I would have no context to relate this tragedy to.

Once the NTSB confirmed it wasn't mechanical failure, it was hard to not believe that the pilot became disoriented and went the wrong way.

User Kirby Brian found an excellent youtube showing the effects of spatial disorientation if you haven't seen it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YItbdXSiElc
BTW: if anyone would like to know for sure that they are actually demonstrating this, starting at the 1:20 mark if you look at the instrument panel you can actually see the AI showing they are in a turn or level. it's the instrument in the middle that's blue on top & looks black on the bottom. when he's banking, you can see the blue/black dividing line tilting also
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Last edited by P.K. on Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/kobe-bryant-once-swam-sharks-212549222.html

Kobe Bryant once swam with sharks so a marine conservation group named a great white after him
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