Worldwide Coronavirus Thread (US death toll passes 1 Million - that's right, 1 Million dead)
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:45 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Like it or not, we’re going to need to make some tough policy decisions in the coming weeks. The highlighted language shows that this one is pretty narrow.
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:17 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


And the bolded is a grossly dismissive misrepresentation of what is going on with regards to Stay at Home and Essential Business plans.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 10:24 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


And the bolded is a grossly dismissive misrepresentation of what is going on with regards to Stay at Home and Essential Business plans.


C'mon you fear-cowering smarty-pants, only 99.3% of Americans have not been tested.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.


Not enough is known at this juncture to start opening up. Prudence outweighs the Damn Almighty Dollar.

Open areas that are less impacted. Suppose people in these areas are asymptomatic. They leave go home and spread the virus. People they infect, infect others. The flattening curve starts another upward spiral.

Patience should be the keyword. It says allow more time, take the hit, err on the side of caution.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:16 pm    Post subject:

ribeye wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


And the bolded is a grossly dismissive misrepresentation of what is going on with regards to Stay at Home and Essential Business plans.


C'mon you fear-cowering smarty-pants, only 99.3% of Americans have not been tested.


Just reading that makes me itch...lol
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Moved to political forum.

Last edited by ribeye on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.
What community does the data suggest should be opened up?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:59 pm    Post subject:

The data is collected inconsistently from location to location. It's still garbage, IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:09 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.


Not enough is known at this juncture to start opening up. Prudence outweighs the Damn Almighty Dollar.

Open areas that are less impacted. Suppose people in these areas are asymptomatic. They leave go home and spread the virus. People they infect, infect others. The flattening curve starts another upward spiral.

Patience should be the keyword. It says allow more time, take the hit, err on the side of caution.


You're twisting this out more than what it says. All the CDC is doing is providing guidelines for states and cities to implement in letting already essential workers that were quarantined due to maybe being exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work and provide critical services if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.
And providing guidelines on what those said employees to wear and do.
CDC recommends that exposed employees take their temperatures before their shifts, wear face masks and practice social distancing at work. They also are advised to stay home if they are ill, not share headsets or other objects used near the face and refrain from congregating in crowded break rooms.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.


Not enough is known at this juncture to start opening up. Prudence outweighs the Damn Almighty Dollar.

Open areas that are less impacted. Suppose people in these areas are asymptomatic. They leave go home and spread the virus. People they infect, infect others. The flattening curve starts another upward spiral.

Patience should be the keyword. It says allow more time, take the hit, err on the side of caution.


You're twisting this out more than what it says. All the CDC is doing is providing guidelines for states and cities to implement in letting already essential workers that were quarantined due to maybe being exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work and provide critical services if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.
And providing guidelines on what those said employees to wear and do.
CDC recommends that exposed employees take their temperatures before their shifts, wear face masks and practice social distancing at work. They also are advised to stay home if they are ill, not share headsets or other objects used near the face and refrain from congregating in crowded break rooms.


With the bold green I agree, essential being the key term. I was disagreeing with
Quote:
We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country.

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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.
What community does the data suggest should be opened up?


I didn’t say to open up communities, just more essential businesses. The government hasn’t loosened restrictions and requirements on those businesses, they are still required to comply with regulations but lack the ability to do so. They have sent personnel home that typically handle regulatory issues. I have a couple of customers who have to call in someone from home to allow our crew in. Is that safer than having a couple of people there full time? Doubtful. Our office is open but we have days scheduled so that only 2 are there at a time, one upstairs and one downstairs. Obviously more testing would make those decisions easier but you can keep proper distances without shutting everything down.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject:

If we don't know where we are going...

How will we know, when we get there?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:44 pm    Post subject:

177,600 Tests Performed
....163,704 Results (13,900 PENDING)
........18,309 POSITIVE
.......145,395 NEGATIVE


Day Number of Deaths
3/12/2020 4
3/13/2020 0
3/14/2020 1
3/15/2020 0
3/16/2020 1
3/17/2020 5
3/18/2020 2
3/19/2020 5
3/20/2020 2
3/21/2020 4
3/22/2020 3
3/23/2020 0
3/24/2020 13
3/25/2020 13
3/26/2020 12
3/27/2020 13
3/28/2020 23
3/29/2020 22
3/30/2020 10
3/31/2020 20
4/1/2020 18
4/2/2020 32
4/3/2020 34
4/4/2020 39
4/5/2020 43
4/6/2020 24
4/7/2020 31
4/8/2020 68
4/9/2020 50
....TOTAL 492
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.
What community does the data suggest should be opened up?


I didn’t say to open up communities, just more essential businesses. The government hasn’t loosened restrictions and requirements on those businesses, they are still required to comply with regulations but lack the ability to do so. They have sent personnel home that typically handle regulatory issues. I have a couple of customers who have to call in someone from home to allow our crew in. Is that safer than having a couple of people there full time? Doubtful. Our office is open but we have days scheduled so that only 2 are there at a time, one upstairs and one downstairs. Obviously more testing would make those decisions easier but you can keep proper distances without shutting everything down.


What you wrote was not more essential businesses., you said selected areas. Areas that may have asymptomatic people in them.

Quote:
We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:37 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I didn’t say to open up communities, just more essential businesses. The government hasn’t loosened restrictions and requirements on those businesses, they are still required to comply with regulations but lack the ability to do so. They have sent personnel home that typically handle regulatory issues. I have a couple of customers who have to call in someone from home to allow our crew in. Is that safer than having a couple of people there full time? Doubtful. Our office is open but we have days scheduled so that only 2 are there at a time, one upstairs and one downstairs. Obviously more testing would make those decisions easier but you can keep proper distances without shutting everything down.


This is going to happen, one way or another. When you commence a shutdown, a clock starts ticking. There will come a point at which it just isn't sustainable any longer. We're going to need to start transitioning out of this phase pretty soon. I think that this is what the Administration is struggling with right now -- how to do this without letting social distancing slip. Here's an article about how Germany is approaching the problem:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/business/germany-coronavirus-economy/index.html
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I didn’t say to open up communities, just more essential businesses. The government hasn’t loosened restrictions and requirements on those businesses, they are still required to comply with regulations but lack the ability to do so. They have sent personnel home that typically handle regulatory issues. I have a couple of customers who have to call in someone from home to allow our crew in. Is that safer than having a couple of people there full time? Doubtful. Our office is open but we have days scheduled so that only 2 are there at a time, one upstairs and one downstairs. Obviously more testing would make those decisions easier but you can keep proper distances without shutting everything down.


This is going to happen, one way or another. When you commence a shutdown, a clock starts ticking. There will come a point at which it just isn't sustainable any longer. We're going to need to start transitioning out of this phase pretty soon. I think that this is what the Administration is struggling with right now -- how to do this without letting social distancing slip. Here's an article about how Germany is approaching the problem:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/business/germany-coronavirus-economy/index.html


Yeah . . . when there is a reasonable expectation that people will not start re-infecting each other by returning to normal activities and thus extending the threat of infection.

We are shut down now. No way around that and the outfall is what it is, so we are committed. It would be stupid to roll things back too early simply because people get antsy and you want to try and re-stimulate the economy. Because ultimately, you just make the economy worse when we have to repeat the exercise.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I didn’t say to open up communities, just more essential businesses. The government hasn’t loosened restrictions and requirements on those businesses, they are still required to comply with regulations but lack the ability to do so. They have sent personnel home that typically handle regulatory issues. I have a couple of customers who have to call in someone from home to allow our crew in. Is that safer than having a couple of people there full time? Doubtful. Our office is open but we have days scheduled so that only 2 are there at a time, one upstairs and one downstairs. Obviously more testing would make those decisions easier but you can keep proper distances without shutting everything down.


This is going to happen, one way or another. When you commence a shutdown, a clock starts ticking. There will come a point at which it just isn't sustainable any longer. We're going to need to start transitioning out of this phase pretty soon. I think that this is what the Administration is struggling with right now -- how to do this without letting social distancing slip. Here's an article about how Germany is approaching the problem:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/business/germany-coronavirus-economy/index.html


Yeah . . . when there is a reasonable expectation that people will not start re-infecting each other by returning to normal activities and thus extending the threat of infection.

We are shut down now. No way around that and the outfall is what it is, so we are committed. It would be stupid to roll things back too early simply because people get antsy and you want to try and re-stimulate the economy. Because ultimately, you just make the economy worse when we have to repeat the exercise.


That may be true. As you know, I was worried about this before the shutdowns started. If the Imperial College report is right -- and I suspect that it is on this point -- we could be stuck in a loop. We start trying to come out of the shutdown, infections spike, and everyone wants to go back into a shutdown. As you say, it could wind up making the economy worse.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:15 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I didn’t say to open up communities, just more essential businesses. The government hasn’t loosened restrictions and requirements on those businesses, they are still required to comply with regulations but lack the ability to do so. They have sent personnel home that typically handle regulatory issues. I have a couple of customers who have to call in someone from home to allow our crew in. Is that safer than having a couple of people there full time? Doubtful. Our office is open but we have days scheduled so that only 2 are there at a time, one upstairs and one downstairs. Obviously more testing would make those decisions easier but you can keep proper distances without shutting everything down.


This is going to happen, one way or another. When you commence a shutdown, a clock starts ticking. There will come a point at which it just isn't sustainable any longer. We're going to need to start transitioning out of this phase pretty soon. I think that this is what the Administration is struggling with right now -- how to do this without letting social distancing slip. Here's an article about how Germany is approaching the problem:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/06/business/germany-coronavirus-economy/index.html


Yeah . . . when there is a reasonable expectation that people will not start re-infecting each other by returning to normal activities and thus extending the threat of infection.

We are shut down now. No way around that and the outfall is what it is, so we are committed. It would be stupid to roll things back too early simply because people get antsy and you want to try and re-stimulate the economy. Because ultimately, you just make the economy worse when we have to repeat the exercise.


That may be true. As you know, I was worried about this before the shutdowns started. If the Imperial College report is right -- and I suspect that it is on this point -- we could be stuck in a loop. We start trying to come out of the shutdown, infections spike, and everyone wants to go back into a shutdown. As you say, it could wind up making the economy worse.


I do, and I shared your concerns about when to appropriately start shutting things down. Now that we have, I believe we need to be very careful about the timing of when to relax the shutdown. The perils of doing so too soon far outweigh those of sticking with it until we have a reasonable expectancy we won't restart the cycle.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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Mark_in_Tulsa
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:19 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.


Not enough is known at this juncture to start opening up. Prudence outweighs the Damn Almighty Dollar.

Open areas that are less impacted. Suppose people in these areas are asymptomatic. They leave go home and spread the virus. People they infect, infect others. The flattening curve starts another upward spiral.

Patience should be the keyword. It says allow more time, take the hit, err on the side of caution.


You're twisting this out more than what it says. All the CDC is doing is providing guidelines for states and cities to implement in letting already essential workers that were quarantined due to maybe being exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work and provide critical services if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.
And providing guidelines on what those said employees to wear and do.
CDC recommends that exposed employees take their temperatures before their shifts, wear face masks and practice social distancing at work. They also are advised to stay home if they are ill, not share headsets or other objects used near the face and refrain from congregating in crowded break rooms.


With the bold green I agree, essential being the key term. I was disagreeing with
Quote:
We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country.


And my good sir, I respect you're right to disagree. Think no less of you.
But I will take the strawman argument (for the sake of discussion, not argument) and say, so do you think anyone who's worked in a hospital for a day should not leave their home?
Because most front line defenders should be quarantined and not allowed back into the general population.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.


Not enough is known at this juncture to start opening up. Prudence outweighs the Damn Almighty Dollar.

Open areas that are less impacted. Suppose people in these areas are asymptomatic. They leave go home and spread the virus. People they infect, infect others. The flattening curve starts another upward spiral.

Patience should be the keyword. It says allow more time, take the hit, err on the side of caution.


You're twisting this out more than what it says. All the CDC is doing is providing guidelines for states and cities to implement in letting already essential workers that were quarantined due to maybe being exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work and provide critical services if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.
And providing guidelines on what those said employees to wear and do.
CDC recommends that exposed employees take their temperatures before their shifts, wear face masks and practice social distancing at work. They also are advised to stay home if they are ill, not share headsets or other objects used near the face and refrain from congregating in crowded break rooms.


With the bold green I agree, essential being the key term. I was disagreeing with
Quote:
We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country.


And my good sir, I respect you're right to disagree. Think no less of you.
But I will take the strawman argument (for the sake of discussion, not argument) and say, so do you think anyone who's worked in a hospital for a day should not leave their home?
Because most front line defenders should be quarantined and not allowed back into the general population.


Reread, I agree with you. My post was responding to VLF
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:41 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
jodeke wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
jodeke wrote:
The IIC (Idiot In Charge) Trump is so bent on opening the country he's ignoring persons who may be asymptomatic. I have a feeling the infection pool is going to overflow. Most troubling is there is no one who will stop him.


Feds loosen virus rules to let essential workers return


LINK

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In a first, small step toward reopening the country, the Trump administration issued new guidelines Wednesday to make it easier for essential workers who have been exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.

Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, announced at the White House that essential employees, such as health care and food supply workers, who have been within 6 feet of a confirmed or suspected case of the virus can return to work under certain circumstances if they are not experiencing symptoms.


We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country. We know where there are infections and where there are low incidences. We can use data and intelligence to get the economy growing or we can continue to ignore the data and cower in fear.


Data from where? To call testing inadequate would be a gross understatement.


Data from known cases and deaths. The data is out there, by County and by City. You can look at the data and see where communities are impacted and where they aren’t. It isn’t rocket science, it is just looking at the data we have and making decisions off of that. More testing would definitely help but we can use the data we have rather than blanket policing.


Not enough is known at this juncture to start opening up. Prudence outweighs the Damn Almighty Dollar.

Open areas that are less impacted. Suppose people in these areas are asymptomatic. They leave go home and spread the virus. People they infect, infect others. The flattening curve starts another upward spiral.

Patience should be the keyword. It says allow more time, take the hit, err on the side of caution.


You're twisting this out more than what it says. All the CDC is doing is providing guidelines for states and cities to implement in letting already essential workers that were quarantined due to maybe being exposed to COVID-19 to get back to work and provide critical services if they do not have symptoms of the coronavirus.
And providing guidelines on what those said employees to wear and do.
CDC recommends that exposed employees take their temperatures before their shifts, wear face masks and practice social distancing at work. They also are advised to stay home if they are ill, not share headsets or other objects used near the face and refrain from congregating in crowded break rooms.


With the bold green I agree, essential being the key term. I was disagreeing with
Quote:
We should have enough data to open up selected areas of the country.


And my good sir, I respect you're right to disagree. Think no less of you.
But I will take the strawman argument (for the sake of discussion, not argument) and say, so do you think anyone who's worked in a hospital for a day should not leave their home?
Because most front line defenders should be quarantined and not allowed back into the general population.


Reread, I agree with you. My post was responding to VLF


My apologies. Trying to follow this thread on my cell phone while on my third old fashion.
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject:

Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:

Quote:
My apologies. Trying to follow this thread on my cell phone while on my third old fashion.


I know the feeling, both cell and Hennessy.
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