Phil's influence on Kobe.

 
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LakersNewEra
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:56 am    Post subject: Phil's influence on Kobe.

You know, I was watching this...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2541452102791692&id=100007807810517

And I feel as we are all telling stories about Kobe and trying to remember him, there's a big part of the puzzle that is missing and its Phil. In the video above you have Kobe telling Giannis that the way you improve, you gotta stay a kid. It just struck me, thats Zen Buddhism concept.

We are all talking about this Mamba Mentality thing as if Kobe just came up with it on his own, the whole thing was brilliantly marketed and yes casuals buy into it, into all these stories about Kobe's work ethic etc that are now legendary.. Yes all of that was there, Kobe had it but he needed someone to guide him too and rein him in. That was Phil IMO.

But those of us who actually followed Kobe's journey closely we know he wasnt always easy to manage. In fact I might go ahead and say there is no Kobe without Phil. Maybe same goes for MJ too. Not to the same extent as Kobe but its possible that this whole Mamba Mentality thing was just too big for any other coach to contain. There is a reason why Kobe flourished mentally under Phil yet when he was under any other coach there was always something missing.


What I feel is missing here, no one is mentioning Phil and he is such a huge part of what Kobe became as aplayer and a person. Was Kobe able to have poise and rein himself in without Phil? Maybe, maybe not. But one thing that is sure for me, Kobe (maybe even MJ) just different personalities. Difficult for most coaches.

Phil doesnt get appreciated enough for working with them and now that everyone is talking about Mamba mentality, no one mentions Phil. Its actually a diservice to the real truth IMO.

Maybe he isnt someone to coach a less demanding personality type but for Kobe and MJ, its possible he was not only great for them but perhaps the only coach that there was for them. Thoughts?
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dries
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject:

I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:57 am    Post subject:

dries wrote:
I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.


An incredible partnership
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dries
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
dries wrote:
I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.


An incredible partnership

Agreee, i should've closed out with those exact words
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:17 am    Post subject:

dries wrote:
I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.


Thats the whole thing. Its a game of life that I feel Phil taught Kobe cuz when you think about it Kobe was this brash kid that was all over the place. He was full of himself, his ego was from another planet, in high school he would let his team fall behind on purpose just so he could then win himself.
To get Kobe to buy into the team concept, to get Kobe to play with Shaq for so many years, it did take some magical persuasion I feel but its also a part of the reason why Kobe eventually became a great person and a great father IMO. He learned how to buy into something bigger than him and you gotta credit Phil for that.
Kobe learned under Phil that he needs other players, he learned how to be a great leader and the Mamba mentality thing, it developed over time but Kobe was very rough around the edges at first. Phil was there to show him the way IMO.

Also as a player when you think of Kobe, he never really worked well under any other coach. Too much ballhandling or too many turnovers, there was always something. Phil really taught him how to have a great basketball mind and yes that ultimately made Kobe great at life too and over time he was the one to inspire young athletes and the next generation but the work done by Phil was so crucial. It gets forgotten.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:40 am    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
dries wrote:
I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.


An incredible partnership



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:41 am    Post subject:

Phil shouldn’t have written the books he did to tarnish Kobe after he first left the lakers. Phil didn’t really understand Kobe, I think he came back to coach Kobe in order to right the wrong when he wrote that book.

No way he can get credited with Kobe’s mamba mentality. That was all Kobe. Not denying Phil’s influence in his life, but it wasn’t all positive, maybe that’s why he doesn’t get mentioned as much because they had a complicated relationship.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:42 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
dries wrote:
I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.


An incredible partnership




It’s interesting the way their relationship was. If you look at Phil and Shaq, Phil wasn’t hesitate to tell him to get back on defense or don’t jog down the court.

Yet Shaq and other players said how Phil wouldn’t tell a whole lot to Kobe. I remember during the 2008 Finals where the Lakers lost to the Celtics, Kobe was Missing a lot of shots.

Phil said we have to make sure we Take good shots.

Kobe replied well my shots are good. And that was it Phil didn’t try to argue with him.

And I think Phil said because Kobe is always aggressive so he felt it unnecessary to refute him.

I read Phil’s books and the philosophy he installed was that the players on the court knew better than the coaches. So this is why you would see he rarely called timeouts when the other team went on a run. Big part of Phil is he kept to his values even in key situations like the NBA finals which is why it was easier for him to install those values on his players.


I think the fact that he doesn’t get much credit for the players is the way he wants it to be.

I think I remember him saying after the NBA championship he was asked her does compare to other championships you coached. He said “well this one i didn’t have to do anything.” I am sure is not true.

The same can be said about Jordan and the Bulls.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:00 am    Post subject:

I remember one of the first things Phil asked Kobe to do
Stop dunking so much.. save your knees and legs for the long career.. don't get jumpers knee etc
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:03 am    Post subject:

About Phil’s books for Kobe and Pau (and Shaq)
https://www.ocregister.com/2010/01/22/about-phils-books-for-kobe-and-pau-and-shaq/
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:12 am    Post subject:

https://archive.org/details/Peaceful.Warrior


Enjoyable movie that has to do with mindfulness, sports and being in the now..Able to be downloaded too
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject:

dries wrote:
LaLaLakeShow wrote:
dries wrote:
I was saying this for a long time, always saw a big part of Phil Jackson in everything he did, his way of thinking and speaking, but it came very naturally for Kobe because that was his personlality too with his humor or when he made a snide remark.. Phil was a great influence to have for teaching the game and life.


An incredible partnership

Agreee, i should've closed out with those exact words


That’s why I’m here, LG! Just call me The Perfect Ending
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject:

I always felt as though Phil had a certain sense of guilt that he carried with him post 2004 and especially after writing that book in relation to Kobe. He witnessed his "fall from grace" first hand, and in his heart of hearts believed he was innocent, yet piled on when everyone was basically already tearing Kobe to shreds in both the media and public perception. He came back and they won 2 more chips together. Their bond was tightened. This is one area that is often overlooked in the Kobe vs. MJ comparison, the fact that both men were coached by the same man, which is a big deal when you're talking about the player who was the closest to Michael we've seen. Off topics but, I think another perspective is that although Kobe clearly idolized MJ, I also believe MJ's favorite player to watch was Kobe, hands down. I think he enjoyed Kobe's game more so then anyone else he's had the pleasure of playing against or watching, at least in the latter parts of his career. Just a gut feeling.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:24 pm    Post subject:

GTL wrote:
I always felt as though Phil had a certain sense of guilt that he carried with him post 2004 and especially after writing that book in relation to Kobe. He witnessed his "fall from grace" first hand, and in his heart of hearts believed he was innocent, yet piled on when everyone was basically already tearing Kobe to shreds in both the media and public perception. He came back and they won 2 more chips together. Their bond was tightened. This is one area that is often overlooked in the Kobe vs. MJ comparison, the fact that both men were coached by the same man, which is a big deal when you're talking about the player who was the closest to Michael we've seen. Off topics but, I think another perspective is that although Kobe clearly idolized MJ, I also believe MJ's favorite player to watch was Kobe, hands down. I think he enjoyed Kobe's game more so then anyone else he's had the pleasure of playing against or watching, at least in the latter parts of his career. Just a gut feeling.


Agree completely
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject:

LaLaLakeShow wrote:
GTL wrote:
I always felt as though Phil had a certain sense of guilt that he carried with him post 2004 and especially after writing that book in relation to Kobe. He witnessed his "fall from grace" first hand, and in his heart of hearts believed he was innocent, yet piled on when everyone was basically already tearing Kobe to shreds in both the media and public perception. He came back and they won 2 more chips together. Their bond was tightened. This is one area that is often overlooked in the Kobe vs. MJ comparison, the fact that both men were coached by the same man, which is a big deal when you're talking about the player who was the closest to Michael we've seen. Off topics but, I think another perspective is that although Kobe clearly idolized MJ, I also believe MJ's favorite player to watch was Kobe, hands down. I think he enjoyed Kobe's game more so then anyone else he's had the pleasure of playing against or watching, at least in the latter parts of his career. Just a gut feeling.


Agree completely


Yep, check this video out..MJ taugth out of all the greats he would want play against, Kobe might actually beat him (around 2:25

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Phil never gets enough credit for all the championships he won, and yes, helping to shape Kobe and refine all the talent the universe gifted him with.

People always say, it's easy to win 11 championships when you always have either MJ or Kobe. Well, let's just say myself or anyone else on this board couldn't have done even 1/100th of what Phil did with both those guys.

Yes, Kobe was a genius, but Phil was also just as much a genius.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:15 am    Post subject:

They didn't always like each other. But especially at the end. They sure did love and appreciate each other.
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