Lakers Front Office Made Critical Mistakes Over the Past Year (Long)
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datniggbstyle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:09 am    Post subject: Lakers Front Office Made Critical Mistakes Over the Past Year (Long)

I shall no longer address Mitch personally, as it is clear that he is not in charge of the show. They are now known strictly as the Front Office (Jerry, Jim, Phil and Mitch) and in that Order of Power.

Mistake #1

Trading Caron Butler For Kwame Brown

Granted they needed a post presence, Kwame Brown was not the one they should have gone after. Caron Butler was a player that showed an ability to play with Kobe and be succesful. He was aggressive with or without Kobe in the game. Paying him 9 million over the next 5 seasons was a small price to pay, when he showed a willingness to EQUAL or atleast ATTEMPT to EQUAL kobes brilliance, Not just take a backseat and take advantage of it like Odom does.He had a passion for the game the lakers are now missing. More than anything he had a chemistry with our star player. A chemistry that is hard to find and has yet to be matched. MAJOR downgrade in talent.

Mistake #2

Trading Kareem Rush and Jumaine Jones to the Bobcats for Draft Picks. In Particular, Holding on to Luke Walton.

Ok, so you say he knows the triangle and is a smart player. So does my daughter but she isnt playing for the Lakers. Luke Walton is a servicable player that should find himself in Miami soon enough. He has absolutely no value in a Laker uniform. His strengths are passing and court vision. He finds an open man they miss the shot. He finds an open shot he misses the shot. Get my drift. Get him a big man and he will be average to good. Kareem and Jumaine are guys that compliment Kobe perfectly. These two trades drastically lowered our talent level.

Mistake #3

Showing a commitment to Lamar Odom, when he has yet to show a commitment to neither Himself, his game or this team.

In all reality he should have been dealt for a big man, not Caron. Caron's game was growing, while Odom was stuck in the mud. Lakers got caught up on a name with potential. Potential in his 7th season in the league is something i have a problem with. His game has not grown since he has entered the league. I can count on one hand the amount of games he and kobe but had stellar games and the lakers got a W. He simply is the wrong fit. He should have been packaged along with SLAVA MEDVASTINKO to acquire a solid body (2 Years or less on the deal) and a young guard in the backcourt.

Mistake #4

Making the Following Moves and having this be our Roster

-Keep Rush and Jones away from Bobcats
-Keep Caron and Move Chucky
-Trade Luke Walton to Bobcats
-Never Call Aaron Mckies Agent
-Leave Devin Green in Long Beach
-Sign Kwame Brown for MLE Outright, Wiz werent going to match TRUST.
-Package Lamar Odom and Slava Medvedenko for A Big man with 2 years or less on his contract and a PG.

Roster Entering THIS season

Chris Mihm/Kwame Brown/Andrew Bynum
Lamar Odom/Brian Cook/Ronny Turiaf/Slava Medvedenko
Caron Butler/Devean George/Jumaine Jones
Kobe Bryant/Kareem Rush
Smush Parker/Sasha Vujacic

All this team would have to do is add another PG and move Odom. That is damn near the position that we are in now, but atleast we would have some pieces to move around and make this thing work. Everything is easy to see in hindsight, but the Lakers Brass should have known this.

I just had to get this off my chest, attack if you wish.

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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:40 am    Post subject:

This will probably end up in the Chicken Little thread. When you start talking about how great Caron Butler, Kareem Rush, and Jumaine Jones were, you lose a lot of credibility. Caron Butler is about an average NBA small forward. Kareem Rush is shooting under .400 this year. Jumaine Jones is shooting around .410.

It's easy to forget the negatives about those players. Butler was often a matador on defense, and he wasn't exactly a model of consistency just in general. Sure, he has an occasional big game that everyone hears about, but he also has some awful games that get no publicity. He's a decent player, but he's not anything special.

When you start talking about how we should trade Walton and Medvedenko for players, you are going over the edge. What makes you think that anyone would give us a quality player for those guys?
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:58 am    Post subject:

Butler as a starter this season

17.9 points, 6.6 rebounds, 1.6 steals

Damn. The Lakers need more of those sort of "average" NBA Small Forwards.

Apart from the Butler trade - everything else was acceptable IMO.

I am still baffled by why the Lakers traded Caron so cheaply. I mean it's not even Kwame as much as it is that we should have traded him at deadline or even let him help out a year more. I mean you don't trade a proven NBA player for a project. They should have only traded him for a proven player (and said so at the time)


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Arsenal
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject:

Lakers brass has made mistakes since the 2nd championship when they should have re-loaded with young talent.
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datniggbstyle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
This will probably end up in the Chicken Little thread. When you start talking about how great Caron Butler, Kareem Rush, and Jumaine Jones were, you lose a lot of credibility. Caron Butler is about an average NBA small forward. Kareem Rush is shooting under .400 this year. Jumaine Jones is shooting around .410.

It's easy to forget the negatives about those players. Butler was often a matador on defense, and he wasn't exactly a model of consistency just in general. Sure, he has an occasional big game that everyone hears about, but he also has some awful games that get no publicity. He's a decent player, but he's not anything special.

When you start talking about how we should trade Walton and Medvedenko for players, you are going over the edge. What makes you think that anyone would give us a quality player for those guys?


Problem is we Traded for Jones and Rush for NOBODY. 2nd Round Picks. I didnt say go out and get Jamal Crawford for Luke Walton. I said do the same deal without those players. Jones and Rush are guys that could help our team out. Regardless of their shooting percentages. They are guards, do you want them in the .500's it doesnt work like that. You dont think Odom couldnt be packaged with Slava. I didnt say Trade slava for Kenyon Martin. Carons defense is no worse than Odom's right now. He is a better Scorer than Lamar is. He is a better fit with Kobe than Lamar is. Reread my post man. Let it digest and then get back to me. dont skim through my posts. Who said anything about getting quality players for Walton or Medvedenko.
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datniggbstyle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Butler as a starter this season

17.9 points, 6.6 rebounds, 1.6 steals

Damn. The Lakers need more of those sort of "average" NBA Small Forwards.

Apart from the Butler trade - everything else was acceptable IMO.

I am still baffled by why the Lakers traded Caron so cheaply. I mean it's not even Kwame as much as it is that we should have traded him at deadline or even let him help out a year more.


Exactly
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plunder456
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject:

I agree with 1st poster & I was flamed when I protested the trade of butler who DOES blend with Kobe. Butler has a higher PPG now than Odom & rebounds as well as Brown
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ChiefTriangle38
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject:

the question is not with talent inmy mind, we can be a dengerous team if we show the same effort and focus we had against sacramento
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Charles
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject:

the biggest mistake was letting 3 expiring contracts that should've been easily movable rot away and expire. Vlade, George, and Slava. I understand George is a nice roleplayer, but what exactly did Vlade and Slava do?
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plunder456
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject:

Telll me ANYONE. Why R we paying K Brown 8 mill per year? Could we get his PRODUCTION for 2 mill or LESS per year?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:41 am    Post subject:

You don't make these kinds of mistakes without paying dearly. You trade Shaq for Odom, you trade Caron for Kwame. I mean wow this team deserves to lose for making those decisions. They are actually doing quite well with the roster these dudes have put together. Obviously this is due to the fact that they have the best player on the planet, the sole bright spot. I'm just waiting for them to trade Kobe for another guy with potential but no resume to fall back on. At least they haven't done that yet. Lets just hope these trades don't cause us to lose for years and years like it did the red sox. Knicks trade penny for steve francis and we trade shaq for lamar odom. Francis and Odom are almost equals in potential and productivity. I don't like to harp on the past but if you want to know why you are where you are you have to look to what got you there.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject:

plunder456 wrote:
Telll me ANYONE. Why R we paying K Brown 8 mill per year? Could we get his PRODUCTION for 2 mill or LESS per year?


Funny we are paying Brown that much but couldn't pay Butler that much. Butler would have stayed for the same price.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject:

Trading Caron for kwame was terrible
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject:

tgf5 wrote:
plunder456 wrote:
Telll me ANYONE. Why R we paying K Brown 8 mill per year? Could we get his PRODUCTION for 2 mill or LESS per year?


Funny we are paying Brown that much but couldn't pay Butler that much. Butler would have stayed for the same price.

Phil wants his SF to be his main initiators.

Butler wasn't the type of SF that fit Phil's vision IMO. So Butler would be the 6th man.

Plus, they were desperate for some size at PF or C.

While I don't think the trade was a good - it was made out of desperation. Exactly why you don't make trades out of desperation. Always wait out. Even it means you have an unbalanced roster.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:24 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
tgf5 wrote:
plunder456 wrote:
Telll me ANYONE. Why R we paying K Brown 8 mill per year? Could we get his PRODUCTION for 2 mill or LESS per year?


Funny we are paying Brown that much but couldn't pay Butler that much. Butler would have stayed for the same price.

Phil wants his SF to be his main initiators.

Butler wasn't the type of SF that fit Phil's vision IMO.

Plus, they were desperate for some size at PF or C.

While I don't think the trade was a good - it was made out of desperation. Exactly why you don't make trades out of desperation. Always wait out. Even it means you have an unbalanced roster.


Since when did Phil want SFs as his initiators before the season? Even if so, Butler has good ball handling abilities. If we kept Caron, we would have probably kept Blount instead of Green. Unless Caron also played the 1, I am pretty sure Odom would play the 4 still too.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Since when did Phil want SFs as his initiators before the season? Even if so, Butler has good ball handling abilities. If we kept Caron, we would have probably kept Blount instead of Green. Unless Caron also played the 1, I am pretty sure Odom would play the 4 still too

My bad, I explained that wrong.

In the past Kobe was the inituiator from SG/SF so Phil would be cool with a guy like Devean or Foxy.

But now Kobe is the main scorer like Jordan - Phil probably wanted someone else initiating.

Between Odom and Butler - it's pretty obvious who is the better passer.

Odom still plays 40-45% of the games at 4 (according 82 games I think) and that's why Caron could have been a 6th man.

But you don't pay a 6th man 50 million. I don't disagree with the decision to pass on extending Caron - I just disagreed with trading him for a project. Proven player for a project is very risky.
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Charles
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
Since when did Phil want SFs as his initiators before the season? Even if so, Butler has good ball handling abilities. If we kept Caron, we would have probably kept Blount instead of Green. Unless Caron also played the 1, I am pretty sure Odom would play the 4 still too

My bad, I explained that wrong.

In the past Kobe was the inituiator from SG/SF so Phil would be cool with a guy like Devean or Foxy.

But now Kobe is the main scorer like Jordan - Phil probably wanted someone else initiating.

Between Odom and Butler - it's pretty obvious who is the better passer.

Odom still plays 40-45% of the games at 4 (according 82 games I think) and that's why Caron could have been a 6th man.

But you don't pay a 6th man 50 million. I don't disagree with the decision to pass on extending Caron - I just disagreed with trading him for a project. Proven player for a project is very risky.
especially when the project has the IQ of a grapefruit
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:30 am    Post subject:

Im not mad at the fact that we acquire Kwame Brown. He is a servicable player for us. Its just the fact that we gave up too much talent to get him. He should have been signed using the MLE. Washington was not going to match it. REGARDLESS of price. Lakers rushed the deal and ended up losing to much for a guy that is nothing more than a situational player. Their first mistake was AUTOMATICALLY placing Lamar as Kobes partner in crime. Caron showed throughout the season that HE was Kobes right hand man. Caron PROVED he could score 20 next to Kobe. Lamar has yet to do that. It is extremely frustrating to understand why Odom was GIVEN a job he wasnt really qualified for. Kobe could have and should have been the initiator. Why? Because he would still get his 30, and Lamar has proven he will not be that in the Future.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject:

While the numbers make it look ugly, it's hard to forget that the Lakers finished last season like 1-39 or something while Kobe was healthy and Caron was putting up 20/6/2 every night, and Lamar was out. Caron seems like one of those guys whose contribution is severely exaggerated by his stats. Even though I know other factors have contributed, the Lakers are better this year than last (if not by as much as I would have hoped), something the Wizards cannot say.

I don't exactly like that all we got was Kwame Brown, but Caron was not worth blowing the chance at cap space. The only way it made sense to keep him was to move Odom, and since he had a separated shoulder over the summer and is paid so damn much, that wasn't going to be easy to do. I personally thought we should have just moved him (Odom) to Atlanta (assuming they'd take him) for the bargain price of some of their prospects, like say, Boris Diaw and Josh Smith (or Childress if you prefer we pick up someone who can shoot), plus a future pick (Atlanta picks are always going to be lottery) and all the attendant cap space. It just seems to me that if we're going to go into rebuilding mode, then do it all the way. We're stuck in this limbo where we're good enough to barely make the playoffs, but we're never going to be any better unless major moves are made.

Hell, Diaw is alone has already turned into Lamar-lite, and makes so little that we easily could be major players in free agency in '07. Who doesn't think this would have been a good team two years from now:

Diaw/Parker
Bryant/Wafer
Smith or Childress/Walton
Bosh/Turiaf
Bynum/Mihm

The scary thing is that team in '07 would still be under the cap enough to sign another player for more than the MLE (perhaps a more traditional point guard to mix up the rotations a bit and allow more lineup flexibility).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject:

Caron Bulter has kept the Wizards in every game this year, except the one he didn't play in. Just has had a great season, not only on the offensive end but on defense.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject:

going back to the orignal post, another huge mistake was extending Kwame's contract for the third year.
That may end up being the mistake that really kills us...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:43 pm    Post subject:

We could have kept Caron and still had Kwame...being so close to DC, everyone knew here that Kwame would not of been brought back even if he accepted the league minimum. The Lakers acted to fast...feeling scared at the prospect of "offers" from Memphis and Indiana that really did not exist.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers played no defense last year. Yes Caron was on the team but he was one of the few players who played with energy and passion. They tanked the season after Kobe got injured and Rudy left. They had every reason to throw the season away and they did. Phil would have greatly improved last years team had he kept them together. Remember the offense was very good last year though undisciplined. They had alot of talent and with Phil as coach they would be competing for a 5-6 seed and in a much better situation. I question whether Phil even watched them play last season. He signed off on a Caron Kwame deal and he didn't know Jumaine Jones was any good. Anyone who actually watched last years team knows those guys were bright spots in a dark room.I'm not even sure Phil watches the games now. He just sits there looking sedated half of the time and never calls timeouts when the team might benefit.

I'm a Phil fan by the way I just wonder whether or not he is fully engaged in this situation. He gave a quote about not wanting to get rid of his kids even though they aren't any good and don't help the team. This is a business and the objective is to win at all costs, not protect your unproductive kids from being traded.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject:

But yet, Mitch lovers will say its not his fault and he has done great!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject:

plunder456 wrote:
Telll me ANYONE. Why R we paying K Brown 8 mill per year? Could we get his PRODUCTION for 2 mill or LESS per year?


You could get his production for the league minimum. And just think, he's guarnteed 3 years!
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