MVP Criteria
Goto page 1, 2  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kobe_somebody_odom
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 1636

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:10 am    Post subject: MVP Criteria

There has been a lot of debate recently over MVP and who should and should not be MVP. It would be nice if the award was given criteria and adhered to every year, I think the league would be better for it

1) Best player on team with the best record and combination of points, rebounds, and assist, steals, blocks above 35 (Fore example 25,6,5 or 20,11,5, or 18,9,6,2stl, 1blk) - currently Giannis

if no player qualifies

2) Best player on team in best conference (currently West) with combination of stats above 40 - currently Lebron

if no player qualifies

3) Player with the best on/off differential on a qualifying playoff team - (minimum stats above 35) currently Lebron

if no player qualifies

4) Media vote for best player (one first place vote only)- Player with most votes wins; totals and writers names are released every year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 29513

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:24 am    Post subject:

Many years ago, the NBA had what was in essence a second MVP award that was chosen by a computer algorithm kind of similar to what you're suggesting. People found it deeply unsatisfying and didn't care about it.

Basically, most people don't want awards given out based on formulas. It's less emotionally satisfying, less fun, and people dont tend to agree with the end esults anymore than when voters decide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
governator
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 15311

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:39 am    Post subject:

Criteria:
1. LeBron
2. Not LeBron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Luminous8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2058

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:56 am    Post subject:

Past history says lebron doesn’t deserve it. He won it in the east going against much inferior competition while having the gaudy stats. He’s now in the West averaging the second best stats on the team in pts/rbs/stls/blks begins AD only leading in assists. Also playing 35mpg. The mans Robin is also Anthony Freaking Davis.

Meanwhile Giannis is leading his team with absurd 30ppg/15rpg/6apg while coming in second with steaks and blocks. All in a very small 30mpg on the best team in the league. If we’re going on past history of LeBron actually winning MVP, he simply doesn’t deserve it. Not to mention Giannis has Lbris Middleton as his second best player.

Stick to the criteria of who gets MVP. It’s not Bron.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
pio2u
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 39914

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:17 am    Post subject:

LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PenG_
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 349

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject:

Giannis leads in the traditional and advanced metrics.
He's #1 in defensive win shares and real +/-.

His offensive rating is +16.4 to Lebron's +10.9. Everything is pointing to Giannis being the most valuable player on the court.

If the tables were turned, I'd be livid if the MVP didn't go to Lebron.

However, the season isn't over and The Lakers still have a chance to grab the best record.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSD
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 12270

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject:

I saw somewhere where Lou Williams has played 58% of team’s minutes while Giannis is at 56%.

I would still give it to Giannis, but LBJ is definitely in the race. I think it’s better if they just give it to Giannis, LBJ will be out for even more blood.
_________________
Klutch Angeles Lakers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
USCandLakers
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 19955

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Giannis leads in the traditional and advanced metrics.
He's #1 in defensive win shares and real +/-.

His offensive rating is +16.4 to Lebron's +10.9. Everything is pointing to Giannis being the most valuable player on the court.

If the tables were turned, I'd be livid if the MVP didn't go to Lebron.

However, the season isn't over and The Lakers still have a chance to grab the best record.


I'm appalled this is even a conversation. Reward players for literally having one of the best seasons of all time.
_________________
A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
mad55557777
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 5905

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Giannis leads in the traditional and advanced metrics.
He's #1 in defensive win shares and real +/-.

His offensive rating is +16.4 to Lebron's +10.9. Everything is pointing to Giannis being the most valuable player on the court.

If the tables were turned, I'd be livid if the MVP didn't go to Lebron.

However, the season isn't over and The Lakers still have a chance to grab the best record.

i highly doubt the bucks will have the best record if they are in the west
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
alleyoop
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 1586

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject:

If we overtake the Bucks for best record - which IMO is definitely a possibility now - Bron is MVP. The most valuable player by far, according to on/off differentials, on the best team in the league

Both him and Giannis are having amazing seasons though, the one that misses out will be very stiff
_________________
Do it for Kobe Bean
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 137418
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.
_________________
“I loved playing music to his words” - John Densmore on Jim Morrison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
alleyoop
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 08 Feb 2018
Posts: 1586

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:57 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.

What? Surely being a more skilled playmaker and passer allows your teammates to get more open shots, thus increasing chances of scoring efficiently and making baskets?
_________________
Do it for Kobe Bean
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
x75274
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 597

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:00 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


James Worthy would be the first person to disagree with you even though I personally think his decline had more to do with aging than the downgrade from Magic to Sedale Threatt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
The God Particle
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 01 May 2015
Posts: 2086

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:07 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
I saw somewhere where Lou Williams has played 58% of team’s minutes while Giannis is at 56%.

I would still give it to Giannis, but LBJ is definitely in the race. I think it’s better if they just give it to Giannis, LBJ will be out for even more blood.


IF Giannis is given the MVP award this year, I sure hope that LBJ doesn't think he deserved it. The only injustice from LBJs point of view would be in he ends up outside the #2.

I think the year GA is having is being undervalued. He's having an other worldly year, both in team success and individual stats. Both in traditional stats, and advanced metrics.

Add to it that GA is the front-runner for DPOY - and I think the only one that has a case to make on feeling wronged, undervalued and disrespected is Giannis.

LBJ may still be in the race, but I really think he's already been lapped once.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 137418
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject:

x75274 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


James Worthy would be the first person to disagree with you even though I personally think his decline had more to do with aging than the downgrade from Magic to Sedale Threatt


So you don’t think that Worthy would be a HOF player on a different team? The skills and abilities that he had with the Lakers he also would have had on any other team.
_________________
“I loved playing music to his words” - John Densmore on Jim Morrison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 29513

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
x75274 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


James Worthy would be the first person to disagree with you even though I personally think his decline had more to do with aging than the downgrade from Magic to Sedale Threatt


So you don’t think that Worthy would be a HOF player on a different team? The skills and abilities that he had with the Lakers he also would have had on any other team.


I've often wondered that myself.

If we had lost the coin flip and ended with Terry Cummings instead of Worthy, would Cummings be the one in the Hall of Fame?

Maybe.

Without question, a lot of Worthy's rep is based on the glory of being the third banana on Showtime.

What would his rep be as the main guy on a lesser team?

We can only guess.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PenG_
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 349

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Giannis leads in the traditional and advanced metrics.
He's #1 in defensive win shares and real +/-.

His offensive rating is +16.4 to Lebron's +10.9. Everything is pointing to Giannis being the most valuable player on the court.

If the tables were turned, I'd be livid if the MVP didn't go to Lebron.

However, the season isn't over and The Lakers still have a chance to grab the best record.


I'm appalled this is even a conversation. Reward players for literally having one of the best seasons of all time.


I'm the biggest Lebron stan there is, but I'm also trying to prepare people for the likely outcome.

Giannis is a freak of nature this season, and should be awarded the MVP barring some crazy late season movements/injuries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Runway8
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 21258
Location: La Jolla, San Diego

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


Now I can agree to that. I think it's most overused cliche in basketball. Or, maybe the phrase is just used incorrectly versus the intent of the point. A good point guard optimizes every outlet pass he makes. It has more to do with the playmaker than the guy receiving. The guy getting the ball is who he is no matter what team he's on. He might not get those passes though if he's on another team. Essentially he isn't "made better," he's just being used more.

So maybe instead of saying, "he makes his teammates better," they should say, "he uses his teammates better." Because the cliche way takes away credit of the other players and implies they are worse ball players without so and so.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Runway8
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 21258
Location: La Jolla, San Diego

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
x75274 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


James Worthy would be the first person to disagree with you even though I personally think his decline had more to do with aging than the downgrade from Magic to Sedale Threatt


So you don’t think that Worthy would be a HOF player on a different team? The skills and abilities that he had with the Lakers he also would have had on any other team.


Actually, he might not be. He was used efficiently by Magic. His game and status was amplified being in LA. Anywhere else, there might not be a game 6 to shine. And he did not have the dominant game to be Batman on another team. I've always said plug in Wilkins or Terry Cummings, the two players taken after Worthy, and they would be the ones with the chips. Human Highlight and Cummings had better career highs than Worthy, but that may be due to the fact that they had to be alphas on their teams. Maybe Worthy might have been like that, get a few seasons of averaging 30 on a bad squad. But I think he's happy with how things turned out. And Worthy had no longevity with all those injuries. No chips and no longevity probably = no hall of fame.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 29513

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Past history says lebron doesn’t deserve it. He won it in the east going against much inferior competition while having the gaudy stats. He’s now in the West averaging the second best stats on the team in pts/rbs/stls/blks begins AD only leading in assists. Also playing 35mpg. The mans Robin is also Anthony Freaking Davis.

Meanwhile Giannis is leading his team with absurd 30ppg/15rpg/6apg while coming in second with steaks and blocks. All in a very small 30mpg on the best team in the league. If we’re going on past history of LeBron actually winning MVP, he simply doesn’t deserve it. Not to mention Giannis has Lbris Middleton as his second best player.

Stick to the criteria of who gets MVP. It’s not Bron.



Basketball Reference has a formula of how potential candidates for MVP compare to previous winners.

Based on that Giannis has a 49.9% chance of winning and Lebron has an 18% chance of winning. Of course, that could change quickly, especially if the Bucks pile up losses.

I think you could reasonably defend choosing either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
PHILosophize
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10538

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:36 pm    Post subject:

I've always been against the whole "best player on the best team" thing because sometimes (maybe even often) that player won't be the most valuable to his team.

Instead, I view it as basically the player whose team, if you took him off the roster, would be the worst off. To me that's what valuable means.
_________________
one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 137418
Location: The Gold Coast

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


Now I can agree to that. I think it's most overused cliche in basketball. Or, maybe the phrase is just used incorrectly versus the intent of the point. A good point guard optimizes every outlet pass he makes. It has more to do with the playmaker than the guy receiving. The guy getting the ball is who he is no matter what team he's on. He might not get those passes though if he's on another team. Essentially he isn't "made better," he's just being used more.

So maybe instead of saying, "he makes his teammates better," they should say, "he uses his teammates better." Because the cliche way takes away credit of the other players and implies they are worse ball players without so and so.


That is a more accurate way to phrase it.
_________________
“I loved playing music to his words” - John Densmore on Jim Morrison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 37944

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


Have you seen what Chris Paul is doing in Oklahoma City? Every one of his teammates is having a career year, three players averaging nearly 20 points. In contention with the Clippers for second best record in the West. Not a player on that roster would even be in our rotation!
_________________
“God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to heaven together.”

— Vanessa Bryant
https://youtu.be/SX3IZULkWx8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Pureshot77
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:54 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
pio2u wrote:
LeBron makes his teammates better, more so than GA. Both are worthy. IMO AD should be in the top3 convo too.


No one makes their teammates better, they are as good as they are.


Have you seen what Chris Paul is doing in Oklahoma City? Every one of his teammates is having a career year, three players averaging nearly 20 points. In contention with the Clippers for second best record in the West. Not a player on that roster would even be in our rotation!


I agree with Ming here, if we define better as being actual performance on the court.

A player doesn't become more skillful because of another player, but they sure can be put in a better position to put up good statistics. Look at what Nash did for the Suns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JUST-MING
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 37944

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:01 pm    Post subject:

James Worthy’s hall of fame case was being one of the rare players to elevate his game in the playoffs. His regular vs. post season differential is off the charts. He definitely benefited from Magic.

Rambis and Worthy were, at one point, #1 and #2 in all-time field goal percentage in the playoffs.
_________________
“God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to heaven together.”

— Vanessa Bryant
https://youtu.be/SX3IZULkWx8
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB