Eddie Jones
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:20 am    Post subject:

hydrohead wrote:
At the time, the trade made sense. Neither Eddie nor Kobe were well equip to handle the bigger small forwards of the era and Glen Rice was considered of the best shooter in the league. Also, West was high on the JR Reid addition, thinking his toughness and spacing would help. Reportedly , Rodman told management if they made the trade they would F up the team. He wasn’t around long enough to see it.
Yet only a year later, with the triangle, i wonder how a Kobe Bryant/ Eddie Jones backcourt would look.


My memory could be off because it’s been so long ago but I thought I remember Rodman saying Jerry West needed to retire and called it a stupid trade when he was no longer a Laker. It was a strange time to make a trade as the team was on an 8 game winning streak and had just won at Utah.

Eddie Jones shot 1-10 and 2-6 in the two games against Utah in 1999 though. And at the time it looked like the West went thru Utah; if the team was going to beat the Jazz it was going to be without Eddie being on his game. But Elden Campbell had a couple of really good games and Kobe was a bigger threat than he was in 1998.
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:41 am    Post subject:

Shaq kept saying he wanted a shooter on his team. But at the time I would have preferred that he learned to hit his free throws.

He missed 32 free throws in the 4 game sweep against the Spurs (8 per game). In game 2 he was 2-10 at the line in a 3 point loss and it made it tougher for the team to feed him because he often got fouled and sent to the line and would lose his confidence. He shot 6-14 from the line in game 3. And the 1999 team struggled defensively (unlike the 2000 team which won games with defense) so those misses were even more costly.

Game 4 was his only great game statistically and the front line with Shaq and JR Reid were outplayed by Duncan and Robinson. Comparing Reid to Slava is pretty accurate; Duncan had his best series and really stood out and Shaq didn’t perform at the level he was capable of. He looked much better in the triangle the next couple of years.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

I was a huge fan of Eddie and I still remember where I was when I got the news he was traded. Was listening to am570 in my car on the parking lot of my university waiting for my next class to start. I was pissed for that entire lecture.

To answer OP, no he didn't need to be traded. It was politics and mostly Shaq's doing. Eddie was just such a likeable dude even though he had a rep for choking in the playoffs. And I loved Chick's calls everytime he went sailing in for a dunk.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Mickstape wrote:
May 14, 2020ReplyRetweetFavorite


https://youtu.be/j7Axb5Z6AmI?t=28m50s
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!



I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:08 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
Mickstape wrote:
May 14, 2020ReplyRetweetFavorite


https://youtu.be/j7Axb5Z6AmI?t=28m50s


LOL at that hatin ref
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:59 pm    Post subject:

Great One wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
Mickstape wrote:
May 14, 2020ReplyRetweetFavorite


https://youtu.be/j7Axb5Z6AmI?t=28m50s


LOL at that hatin ref



Came here to post the same thing. That mf'er...
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Wouldn’t Nash be a better fit for the traingle than Gary Payton? At least Nash could make a shot. And he was pretty effective in Dallas before he got to Phoenix. The Mavs didn’t rely on him as much as the Suns. Even if he played less of a role in LA I don’t see why he couldn’t succeed. Would he really be worse than Derek Fisher?
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:29 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!



I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.

I disagree with everything you said about Nick. Man. You have like no appreciation for the sport.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:18 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!



I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.

I disagree with everything you said about Nick. Man. You have like no appreciation for the sport.



I am baffled how you can disagree with “everything” I said since most of the things in my post are facts you can look up. He did play for 5 teams in 5 years. He was traded 3 times in 3 years. He did put up good stats for crappy Nuggets teams that never made the playoffs.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:19 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
[


I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.


His stats after leaving the Lakers were pretty good if you ask me, even if not quite as efficient as playing off Shaq and Kobe which he was very good at.



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vanexni01.html

Nick's problem was Stockton and the refs got into his head during those Jazz series and that made West think he needed to make a change.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:41 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
activeverb wrote:
[


I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.


His stats after leaving the Lakers were pretty good if you ask me, even if not quite as efficient as playing off Shaq and Kobe which he was very good at.



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vanexni01.html

Nick's problem was Stockton and the refs got into his head during those Jazz series and that made West think he needed to make a change.



Like I said, he put up good stats for some crappy Nuggets teams that never made the playoffs. Then he bounced around the league and had a good year for Dallas as a backup.

He never made another all-star team after leaving the Lakers.

In his 7 years after leaving the Lakers, he made the playoffs only three times. He did have one good year as a backup on Dallas in a year they made it to the conference finals.

He was a fun, swaggy gunner. Basketball reference says the playe who had the most similar career to his is Damon Stoudamire, and that sounds about right to me. If you think Damon Stoudamire had a really impressive career, then it's cool if you think Nick did too.

As far as the West/Nick conflict, it was more than just the Jazz series. It was also the suspension after Nick bumped a ref. It was his run-ins with Del Harris. Looking back with 30 years of hindsight, you could say it was overblown. But no question at the time the Lakers wanted him gone, and gone fast.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!



I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.

I disagree with everything you said about Nick. Man. You have like no appreciation for the sport.



I am baffled how you can disagree with “everything” I said since most of the things in my post are facts you can look up. He did play for 5 teams in 5 years. He was traded 3 times in 3 years. He did put up good stats for crappy Nuggets teams that never made the playoffs.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

it's not the "facts" lol like the number of teams and years, lolll. it's the way you describe him.
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 8:32 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!



I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.

I disagree with everything you said about Nick. Man. You have like no appreciation for the sport.



I am baffled how you can disagree with “everything” I said since most of the things in my post are facts you can look up. He did play for 5 teams in 5 years. He was traded 3 times in 3 years. He did put up good stats for crappy Nuggets teams that never made the playoffs.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?

it's not the "facts" lol like the number of teams and years, lolll. it's the way you describe him.


I don't understand what you're trying to say, but it's cool.
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!


Van Exel was pretty good but I’m not sure it would have been easy to get much for him. There were some point guards around the league that were better than him so those teams weren’t going to give much up. He wasn’t going to do much for a rebuilding team and they wouldn’t always want a guy that is difficult to deal with (especially a guy that disrespects the coach) to be around the young players. Which teams would want him so badly that they were willing to give a lot up and which teams wanted to pay him?

Lue was a talented point guard that was a first round pick in the 20’s. He was a low risk move and at the time people thought he might do more. Worst case scenario is he doesn’t work out and Fisher remains the starter. And with Kobe emerging there was less need for a PG that would shoot as much as Van Exel.

And teams do care a lot if a player has issues. That’s why Rodman had trouble finding a job despite still having some value. I thought the 1999 team badly needed his energy and his defense but the team got tired of his act just like they got tired of Van Exel.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Wouldn’t Nash be a better fit for the traingle than Gary Payton? At least Nash could make a shot. And he was pretty effective in Dallas before he got to Phoenix. The Mavs didn’t rely on him as much as the Suns. Even if he played less of a role in LA I don’t see why he couldn’t succeed. Would he really be worse than Derek Fisher?


If he took on Paxson's role mostly as a catch and shoot guy, Nash would be great.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!


Van Exel was pretty good but I’m not sure it would have been easy to get much for him. There were some point guards around the league that were better than him so those teams weren’t going to give much up. He wasn’t going to do much for a rebuilding team and they wouldn’t always want a guy that is difficult to deal with (especially a guy that disrespects the coach) to be around the young players. Which teams would want him so badly that they were willing to give a lot up and which teams wanted to pay him?

Lue was a talented point guard that was a first round pick in the 20’s. He was a low risk move and at the time people thought he might do more. Worst case scenario is he doesn’t work out and Fisher remains the starter. And with Kobe emerging there was less need for a PG that would shoot as much as Van Exel.

And teams do care a lot if a player has issues. That’s why Rodman had trouble finding a job despite still having some value. I thought the 1999 team badly needed his energy and his defense but the team got tired of his act just like they got tired of Van Exel.


Thank you. Very few to this day acknowledge his actual trade value due to all his well-known issues with control. It wasn't merely a simple case of getting equal value. And Logo was a legend, yet it's discounted or ignored at the same time that he got for Nick what he got. A point I forgot to mention above is that it was also known that Nick's knee(s) were thought to be shot by some outside observers. He was bone to bone in one knee by 98 and wore a black compression sleeve over it every night. While he did manage to buck the odds and have a full career, it was a question mark in 97/98. Teams know the conditions of players they're looking to acquire, folks should make no mistake about that. Denver won 15 gms the year before they got Nick. They had nowhere to go but up and could take that risk. How many other teams were out there like that who West could deal with is a good question. Might've been a very short list for all we know.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!


Van Exel was pretty good but I’m not sure it would have been easy to get much for him. There were some point guards around the league that were better than him so those teams weren’t going to give much up. He wasn’t going to do much for a rebuilding team and they wouldn’t always want a guy that is difficult to deal with (especially a guy that disrespects the coach) to be around the young players. Which teams would want him so badly that they were willing to give a lot up and which teams wanted to pay him?

Lue was a talented point guard that was a first round pick in the 20’s. He was a low risk move and at the time people thought he might do more. Worst case scenario is he doesn’t work out and Fisher remains the starter. And with Kobe emerging there was less need for a PG that would shoot as much as Van Exel.

And teams do care a lot if a player has issues. That’s why Rodman had trouble finding a job despite still having some value. I thought the 1999 team badly needed his energy and his defense but the team got tired of his act just like they got tired of Van Exel.


NVE killed his own trade value with "cancun."
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 9:49 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:


NVE killed his own trade value with "cancun."


That was the final straw. Before that he argued incessantly with the coach, and then got suspended for the last 7 games of the 1995-96 season for shoving an official in a game. Nick didn't get along with Shaq and Kobe -- Nick liked to run the show and freelance, and he didn't like having to defer his game to better players.

Nick was a talented guy who performed at the highest level with lesser teammates who allowed him to run the show. Unfortunately, that wasn't a winning strategy, even if it was a fun one.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
hydrohead wrote:
At the time, the trade made sense. Neither Eddie nor Kobe were well equip to handle the bigger small forwards of the era and Glen Rice was considered of the best shooter in the league. Also, West was high on the JR Reid addition, thinking his toughness and spacing would help. Reportedly , Rodman told management if they made the trade they would F up the team. He wasn’t around long enough to see it.
Yet only a year later, with the triangle, i wonder how a Kobe Bryant/ Eddie Jones backcourt would look.


My memory could be off because it’s been so long ago but I thought I remember Rodman saying Jerry West needed to retire and called it a stupid trade when he was no longer a Laker. It was a strange time to make a trade as the team was on an 8 game winning streak and had just won at Utah.

Eddie Jones shot 1-10 and 2-6 in the two games against Utah in 1999 though. And at the time it looked like the West went thru Utah; if the team was going to beat the Jazz it was going to be without Eddie being on his game. But Elden Campbell had a couple of really good games and Kobe was a bigger threat than he was in 1998.



The Lakers started the season 6-6. We signed Rodman and went on an 8-game winning streak.

Eddie really didn't play well during the streak. And Elden was out for most of the streak. So it wasn't all that surprising we made the trade.

However, after we traded for Rice, Rodman fell apart.

He missed practice because he couldn't find his shoes. He refused to enter a game. He ducked out for four games to take care of "personal problems" and was seen gambling in Vegas. Shaq got irritated with Rodman's attempts to pad his rebounding stats.

During all these antics, we went back to being a .500 team. Rodman was released a month after the streak ended.

Rodman lashed into West and the Lakers after being released, and criticized the Rice trade.

A year later Rodman was out of the league for good. The Lakers were on their way to a threepeat.
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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 6:59 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
I was also completely against the Eddie Jones trade and was borderline depressed when it happened. To be honest, he was one of the main reasons why I was excited enough to join the Laker bandwagon after we landed Shaq. Then of course Kobe evolved and the rest was history.

However, I have always wondered why we didn't trade him for Chris Webber rather, who at the time was with the Wizards. The Wizards traded C-Webb for Mitch Richmond, who at the time may have also been an all-star but with much less upside than Eddie Jones.

As a side note, I wish we also traded Van Exel for something much better than Tyronne Lue (23rd pick at the time). If Jerry West was truly the visionary everyone claims he is, he would have traded for Nash (who was struggling at the time) or Bibby!! ... lol, just messing around but can you imagine?

Nash, Kobe, Fox, Webber, Shaq

bench: Fish, Horry


Even if we had just kept the team as is (with Eddie Jones and Van Exel) but with better coaching in Phil Jackson, we would have still been a dynasty but with probably better upside! Were the luxury tax penalties that punitive at the time that Buss couldn't deal with it?


Steve never becomes MVP-Nash if he were to develop his career on the Lakers. He needs the keys to the offense and there's literally no chance of that happening on a Lakers team that primarily dumped the ball into Shaq for him to do his thing or a Kobe bailout sprinkled in with the triangle occasionally finding one of the "others" a wide open shot. Steve would have been an "other".


That's true but my point is we should have been able to get something much better for Van Exel than just T Lue. Waste of trade IMO. While Nash wouldn't have been MVP, he would have still been a very useful guard even in the triangle. Might he have gotten fed up after a few years of it, possibly but it could have still potentially led to more chips!



I'm not sure if Nick had a lot of value when we traded him. He was considered a headcase, and the Lakers were desperate to get rid of him. I doubt teams were throwing big offers at us.

Nick really didn't turn out to be much of anything. He put up good stats on a few crappy Nuggets teams, and then spent 5 years moving around the league, a new team each year. He got traded 3 times in 3 years.


This is even up for debate. Lue's impact on our 99-00 team and the incredible title run, where he was able to slow down Iverson for a stretch can't be underestimated. I'd even argue that we got our money's worth on this alone.
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