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audioaxes
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 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I really hope McGee ops out to make it a clean break. Dwight was clearly the better center for this team.
I like having Dwight start, and Cousins off the bench as a 6th man scoring punch. But I really hope he's willing to do what Dwight does by checking the ego at the door and just do whatever it is the Lakers ask of him to help win... from coming off the bench to possibly racking up DNPs.
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I wonder how many would have looked at Jokic and say he's too slow and awkward to play in the league.
I wonder how many said that Dwight and Rondo were done and that KCP was trash.
I wonder how many said Ingram would never average 20 points a game.
Boogie was once the best center in the league... he never has been quick or able to jump high. Would you pass up on a chance to sign Jokic if he was coming back from an Achilles injury?
I get the worries about his health, but you do not let him walk and possibly sign with GSW, Houston, Clippers, Pelicans, Denver. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but no one is talking about signing him to a max contract.
I'd sign him to keep him away from the West if nothing else, but you don't walk away from that level of talent.
We had JR Smith, Quinn Cook, Jared Dudley, and Dion Waiters on our roster... we had the corpse of Luol Deng... and some of you don't want to take a chance on Boogie?
Come on, elite talent in the league is rare... that's why you take chances on a Derrick Rose, a Melo, a Dwight, a Rondo.
We must sign Boogie... end of story. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:29 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers have still been helping him rehab and taking care of him, and his instagram messages hint that he may be coming back to the Lakers, so hopefully he does.
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MoriArty
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | The Lakers have still been helping him rehab and taking care of him, and his instagram messages hint that he may be coming back to the Lakers, so hopefully he does. |
My thinking as well. I believe he's going to return on another friendly contract after a lengthy rehab and we'll see what he can do. |
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Jesusdelonla
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Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | The Lakers have still been helping him rehab and taking care of him, and his instagram messages hint that he may be coming back to the Lakers, so hopefully he does. |
AD wants him here and he will be here.. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| j-dawg wrote: | | Killer_Z wrote: | | It all comes down to what LeBron decides. If LeBron wants DMC, he will be signed. Otherwise he will not. LeGM calls the shots on this team. |
Pretty much this.
On a different though, We are a defensive team, and he will be the weakest defender on the floor whenever he is in the game (unless he is in the game with Quinn Cook). When your team identity is your defense, and you introduce a new dynamic that doesn’t fit that identity... let’s just say that I would explore more options before I’d consider that to be the best option for the team.
A lot of people like to point out McGee’s weaknesses, but at least McGee provides rim protection and he doesn’t need the ball to be a contributor to the team. Anybody expecting defense (whether it be perimeter, rotations or rim protection) is going to be disappointed and just got caught up in his stats from years ago. His best weapon defensively would be flopping. I guess if you want to see him in a flop contest with Jokic, you may like it. And no, He will not be able to do what Dwight did to Jokic (in case anybody was curious about it, DMC is not that type of defender)
At best, I guess Cousins can theoretically have a Mariesse Speights type role. But this is different than Speights. You’re asking a guy who was a former 20ppg scorer on high volume and high usage to play a Mariesse Speights because he simply won’t get the ball enough to put up numbers like he had. It’s basically the same exact concerns as we had for Carmelo Anthony on this team. And this is if he is healthy. That’s still a very big IF. If you were in favor of Carmelo, I could see why you like DMC on this time playing a backup role. If you were not in favor of Melo on our team, then those reasons also apply to DMC.
Is that better than what McGee can provide? But the first question is if McGee will opt in, or out? Depending on that, we may be having a different conversation. |
He put up 16ppg/8rpg/4apg in 25mpg with a drtg of 102 with the Warriors coming off a major achilles injury. A Warriors team that had KD/Curry/Klay/Dray/Iggy... with KD averaging 26ppg, Curry 25ppg, and Klay 22ppg all in same season... |
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CRoost
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | j-dawg wrote: | | Killer_Z wrote: | | It all comes down to what LeBron decides. If LeBron wants DMC, he will be signed. Otherwise he will not. LeGM calls the shots on this team. |
Pretty much this.
On a different though, We are a defensive team, and he will be the weakest defender on the floor whenever he is in the game (unless he is in the game with Quinn Cook). When your team identity is your defense, and you introduce a new dynamic that doesn’t fit that identity... let’s just say that I would explore more options before I’d consider that to be the best option for the team.
A lot of people like to point out McGee’s weaknesses, but at least McGee provides rim protection and he doesn’t need the ball to be a contributor to the team. Anybody expecting defense (whether it be perimeter, rotations or rim protection) is going to be disappointed and just got caught up in his stats from years ago. His best weapon defensively would be flopping. I guess if you want to see him in a flop contest with Jokic, you may like it. And no, He will not be able to do what Dwight did to Jokic (in case anybody was curious about it, DMC is not that type of defender)
At best, I guess Cousins can theoretically have a Mariesse Speights type role. But this is different than Speights. You’re asking a guy who was a former 20ppg scorer on high volume and high usage to play a Mariesse Speights because he simply won’t get the ball enough to put up numbers like he had. It’s basically the same exact concerns as we had for Carmelo Anthony on this team. And this is if he is healthy. That’s still a very big IF. If you were in favor of Carmelo, I could see why you like DMC on this time playing a backup role. If you were not in favor of Melo on our team, then those reasons also apply to DMC.
Is that better than what McGee can provide? But the first question is if McGee will opt in, or out? Depending on that, we may be having a different conversation. |
He put up 16ppg/8rpg/4apg in 25mpg with a drtg of 102 with the Warriors coming off a major achilles injury. A Warriors team that had KD/Curry/Klay/Dray/Iggy... with KD averaging 26ppg, Curry 25ppg, and Klay 22ppg all in same season... |
Boogie is very skilled offensively and he does not really on quickness nor speed to create his shots and he’s also a reliable playmaker. He has elite offense. His upside alone is worth a roster spot. |
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LakersMD
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alleyoop
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Joined: 08 Feb 2018
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:27 am Post subject: |
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If Boogie doesn't come back, I will make my sig "Donald Trump is a great president" for a month
I am that sure it's going to happen
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j-dawg
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I will say this about DMC though
Say what you want about his strengths, weaknesses, health status, and whether or not he is a good fit to the team. But he chose to be a Laker and seems to want to be a Laker. That means something after going through the Kendall Gill’s, Charles Oakley’s, George Paul’s of the world who passed up on being Lakers.
Props to Demarcus Cousins for that. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Where will he be for us defensively though?
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j-dawg
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Where will he be for us defensively though? |
He would need to be on the floor with AD (to cover up, or make up for the deficiencies) if we are going to want Defense when he is in the game.
We wouldn’t want to play him with, say, a front court with Markieff Morris and Kyle Kuzma. Wouldn’t be pretty from a defensive perspective. |
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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 10621
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure if he really fits in to our identity on defense that we showed during the playoffs this year. He's just not quick/athletic/disciplined enough, although he could still be fine in certain matchups.
BUT, I think he would be extremely useful offensively during the regular season. We are going to need guys outside of LeBron & AD that can carry a load offensively during an 82 game slog, especially with LBJ another year older and coming off an extended playoff run. DMC can help out with that for sure. Same reason I'd like to bring back Waiters on a minimum. |
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Intlakeshow
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| For the minimum this is a no brainer, bring him back. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Cousins is going to get a decent deal. He is worth the risk.
I think he also wants to improve his future earning and go to a team that can showcase him. |
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LakerLanny
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Joined: 24 Oct 2001
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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I am not a big Cousins guy and certainly wouldn't pay much for him if I am the Lakers.
I see Dwight Howard as a much more important priority myself.
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32
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
We don't know how he is going to be defensively after his injury.
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j-dawg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
I would say this year, Kuzma is a better defender than Cousins is/was. And there’s a reason the other guys listed are riding the pine. And if Cousins rides the pine like those guys listed, I’m cool with it as well. |
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miggz23
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Posts: 6799
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
We don't know how he is going to be defensively after his injury. |
He Played good defense with GSW coming fresh off a major achilles injury. He will be fine here along side AD/Lebron/KCP/Bradley who can cover him defensively. He plays defense different from Dwight. He uses his size and length more than athleticism. He is also a big body which clogs up the lane. He always been light on his feet for a big guy.
He is also very skilled offensively unlike Dwight. If teams decide to go small he will make them pay offensively.
It’s all about staying healthy with him. I’ll take that gamble anytime since he is really a low risk with his talent. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| j-dawg wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
I would say this year, Kuzma is a better defender than Cousins is/was. And there’s a reason the other guys listed are riding the pine. And if Cousins rides the pine like those guys listed, I’m cool with it as well. |
You mean Kuzma who has a career drtg of 110 compare to Cousins 103... Kuzma this season 109 and Cousins had a 102 drtg coming off a major achilles injury.
Like I said Cousins is all about staying healthy. His skills is never the question unlike Kuzma. |
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AD23
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Cousins for a vet min and playing 15-20 minutes per would be incredible. Unlike Dwight and Javale he can stretch the floor and is an amazing passer.
Yeah he may lack what Dwight and Javale does on defense but more than makes up offensively. Plus we can assume that 1 of Javale or Dwight will be back.
So a Dwight/Cousins or Javale/Cousins combo will be great. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | j-dawg wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
I would say this year, Kuzma is a better defender than Cousins is/was. And there’s a reason the other guys listed are riding the pine. And if Cousins rides the pine like those guys listed, I’m cool with it as well. |
You mean Kuzma who has a career drtg of 110 compare to Cousins 103... Kuzma this season 109 and Cousins had a 102 drtg coming off a major achilles injury.
Like I said Cousins is all about staying healthy. His skills is never the question unlike Kuzma. |
Yep. It's interesting how the narrative has spread when it comes to Kuzma's defense.
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j-dawg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| miggz23 wrote: | | j-dawg wrote: | | miggz23 wrote: | | People wortied about defense when you have guys like Kuzma/Waiters/Smith/Dudley/Cook on the team. I posted many times he is not that bad defensively for his size. |
I would say this year, Kuzma is a better defender than Cousins is/was. And there’s a reason the other guys listed are riding the pine. And if Cousins rides the pine like those guys listed, I’m cool with it as well. |
You mean Kuzma who has a career drtg of 110 compare to Cousins 103... Kuzma this season 109 and Cousins had a 102 drtg coming off a major achilles injury.
Like I said Cousins is all about staying healthy. His skills is never the question unlike Kuzma. |
I will admit, I don’t look at every stat and every lineup combination to see who has a better rating for defense and what not, what I can say is that DMC is not a good defender. Kuzma isn’t either, but he has shown signs here and there throughout the year.
If he is willing to take the minimum again, it’s an investment along the same lines as Dwight Howard this past season. I don’t really mind that. But I draw the line at anything that asks him to be a main contributor (and to hold that expectation of him) for next year.
One thing that he does well is put up numbers. And I get that people use that to defend him.
Much like Carmelo Anthony, I question the fit. He’s not a good defender, he doesn’t move his feet well enough in today’s NBA, and he is a high volume player. What I mean when I say that is he needs to have the ball in his hands and he needs touches in order to be productive on the floor to generate good stats.
You have to understand that guys like Carmelo Anthony, DeMarcus Cousins or Russell Westbrook (Or virtually any former franchise type players) are all high usage and high volume players. You can’t expect them to just suddenly switch to becoming an Alex Curuso type role player on your team overnight, and vice versatility. If you reduce their roles on the basketball court, their production rate (even relative to the time they spend on the floor) is drastically altered. Would they still be able to produce effectively.
DMC took 13 shots per game in 25mpg with the Warriors. GSW plays a different style than we do and they had 3 other guys who took 17+ shots per game. We play at a different pace where only LeBron and AD do that. I don’t see DMC even getting the same shots that he did to produce the stats.
Basically, I question how effective DMC can be, considering He is:
- coming off of injuries that will impact his mobility
- coming back into a league where mobility means everything for big men
- an average at best man defender, even when healthy
- offers below average rim protection for a big, even when healthy
- will not be able to take the volume of shots that he has taken in his entire career
- likely the lowest minutes and usage rates in his career (up to this point)
He has shown that he can be an average 3 point shooter in the league, percentage wise, BUT that was on High volume.
- in years where he has taken ~5 three pointers per game or higher, he has been able to hover around the 35-37% mark
- in years where he has taken less than that, it is significantly lower than that. With GSW, he shot 28% from 3
What I’m trying to say with these stats is.. he needs the ball a lot to produce. The less he has the ball, the less productive he is. On the Lakers, he will likely have the ball less than he ever has in his career, so how productive will he be with that? Based on his past stats, he won’t be as affective. That’s all I’m saying, and then questioning whether or not that is a good fit for our team.
Ideally, we want to put a good defensive team from 1-5 positions on the floor. Having even one weak defender on the floor (in our case, it’s usually Kuzma) is usually frustrating enough. If our team identity is defense, should we even be looking for offensive minded (and subpar defensive) players? We said no to Carmelo Anthony for those reasons. I would say that if Cousins costs more than the minimum, we should say No to him as well. |
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Bol
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I honestly don't think Cousins will ever be a productive player again. His body is failing him, he had some liabilities even at his best, and we saw how even a big with good speed and quickness like Dwight could only help against certain teams. But I do feel kind of sorry for DeMarcus so I won't be mad at all if he returns as a Laker but I really won't expect anything from him at all. |
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