Should Lakers resign Demarcus Cousins now?
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j-dawg
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:37 am    Post subject:

1995Lakers wrote:
j-dawg wrote:
I find DRTG to be a flawed stat when measuring defense. I looked at the list of all time leaders for high DRTG ratings and found quite a few players that I would never consider as anywhere close to defensive stalwarts:

Chris Webber?
Rasho Nesterovic?
Carlos Boozer?

All of those guys are higher career rating than Anthony Davis

Paul Pierce higher than Michael Jordan as well
Pau Gasol is slightly higher than Marc Gasol


I think it captures an idea of good defensive players, but you also see guys who aren’t good defenders who slip in up there as well. I think the outliers show that the stat has flaws.

I watched Webber, Nesterovic, and Boozer play. Would I happily parade them out for my team if there is a crunch time defensive situation that I’m facing? Based on the stats, it’s not such a bad idea, even though I could do better. But in real life, I wouldn’t.


Wow thats surprising. Webber and Nesterovic I thought were decent defenders. Webber always had the ideal power forward body in terms of speed, agility and strength. Boozer is the one that really surprises considering you would always hear criticism of defense on him especially in Chicago. But he never seemed to have the length either to be a great defender. I dont need to say this but he was pretty much Pau's b****

Yes, they were decent and could hold it down. But if anybody who doesn’t watch the games goes in and just pulled out the stats, they would’ve thought that these guys were not just great defenders, but remarkable defenders even when compared to HOF type players.

I noticed a trend as well: Rasho has played with KG and Duncan practically his whole career, and Boozer had his best years in Chicago playing with Noah in Thib’s system. Wouldn’t be surprised if numbers are inflated for everyone who played with defensive minded teams/players whether they were bad/ok/good on defense
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:42 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
If he is the 3rd center earning his mins, then it makes sense from one sense.

Not seeing the support for current centers in most posts though. See too many trading McGee “because he sucks” and most only keeping Howard if he accepts a minimal salary.

As I stated, Lakers have some tough decisions to make concerning next seasons roster. I only posted because I find so many fan suggested ideas to be contradictory, unrealistic or downright insane.

I’m still reveling in the accomplishments of this year.


McGee was decent throughout the regular season and against Portland. After that, his game just does not fit the matchup. Houston with the small ball. Denver on the high post with Jokic and Miami with all the double screen and roll. His strength as a shot blocker is mitigated by team taking him out far from the rim. Our center rotation is solid this year. But I still like Boogie because he can bring another dimension on our offense that both our center can’t do.

I don’t think we have a tough decision if we can keep everyone to make the run again and used the MLE to address our weakness.
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j-dawg
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:46 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Perhaps any of you Cousins haters, can address the problems of bringing him in - to fill the Dudley or JR bench positions, with a non-guaranteed minimum contract?

Everything being said is OPINIONS, anyway...

I don’t think anyone really has a problem with him being in Dudley’s shoes. In fact, it’s practically a forgone conclusion that he will likely have a roster spot. It is asking for anything beyond that that is the issue.

In addition to the fit being questions, and more importantly than anything else right now, it’s a very concerning issue because of his injuries. Some haven’t accepted the possibility that he will never be the same again. We don’t even know what he’s going to look like. For all we know, he’s already in the Andrew Bynum category with regards to injuries, and if that’s the case, people have argued that it is a wasted roster spot.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:13 am    Post subject:

I already stated I am biased. I don’t like Cousins. Watching him play in Sac and NO was always an annoyance. His surly demeanor and constant techs for complaining or worse were a joy to behold as he lost.

He proved himself to be even more of a despicable person with domestic violence and voice message of threatening his ex in a custody battle.

Putting aside personal bias. I understand he is very likely about to be a Laker. Prefer it as a vet min end of the bench low risk option. I am questioning those with the opinion that there is something more to expect from him.

We will have to wait to see what kind of impact he actually has on the court. I’m not expecting much. Maybe I’m wrong. I was about Howard. That knucklehead made it through the season. Maybe Cousins can too.
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I already stated I am biased. I don’t like Cousins. Watching him play in Sac and NO was always an annoyance. His surly demeanor and constant techs for complaining or worse were a joy to behold as he lost.

He proved himself to be even more of a despicable person with domestic violence and voice message of threatening his ex in a custody battle.

Putting aside personal bias. I understand he is very likely about to be a Laker. Prefer it as a vet min end of the bench low risk option. I am questioning those with the opinion that there is something more to expect from him.

We will have to wait to see what kind of impact he actually has on the court. I’m not expecting much. Maybe I’m wrong. I was about Howard. That knucklehead made it through the season. Maybe Cousins can too.


Here’s the thing.

When can you accept the worst case scenario.

Then it’s easier to take risk.

Boogie experiment failed, waived him so we can get someone from the buyout.

The upside.

You have a skilled big that can initiate the offense.

For a championship team that has little flexibility , you have to find bargains with higher upside.

We need that wildcard so to speak .
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:49 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I already stated I am biased. I don’t like Cousins. Watching him play in Sac and NO was always an annoyance. His surly demeanor and constant techs for complaining or worse were a joy to behold as he lost.

He proved himself to be even more of a despicable person with domestic violence and voice message of threatening his ex in a custody battle.

Putting aside personal bias. I understand he is very likely about to be a Laker. Prefer it as a vet min end of the bench low risk option. I am questioning those with the opinion that there is something more to expect from him.

We will have to wait to see what kind of impact he actually has on the court. I’m not expecting much. Maybe I’m wrong. I was about Howard. That knucklehead made it through the season. Maybe Cousins can too.


Here’s the thing.

When can you accept the worst case scenario.

Then it’s easier to take risk.

Boogie experiment failed, waived him so we can get someone from the buyout.

The upside.

You have a skilled big that can initiate the offense.

For a championship team that has little flexibility , you have to find bargains with higher upside.

We need that wildcard so to speak .


I understand the realities. Just not liking this option.

Pretty big leap of faith and will need to be proven he can still be a “skilled big man who can initiate the offense”.

With GS in the playoffs I remember liability on defense, careless turnovers, stupid techs and poor 25% 3pt. Same issues he has had his entire career when healthy. The last 3 seasons he has played 48, 30 and 0 games per year.

I hate the idea of him sitting on the end of the bench towel waving his way to ring if the Lakers are fortunate enough to be in that position again next year. But I have little confidence he can contribute as much defense or initiating as some are describing. His deficiencies will get him played off the court in matchups all season long but especially against good players/ teams.
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Luke
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject:

IMHO Cousins is a no brainer for the minimum.

He could be a difference maker, either in the RS or in the playoffs, or both.

It's a gamble you have to take...
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dfchang813
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject:

Why are people acting we are fixing this guy the max? 🤷🏻‍♂️😂😂

It’s. Vet minimum contract come on now.

We took that chance on Dwight and he was a damn important rotation player and critical in is winning a chip.

Why wouldn’t we roll the dice again on Cousins??
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I already stated I am biased. I don’t like Cousins. Watching him play in Sac and NO was always an annoyance. His surly demeanor and constant techs for complaining or worse were a joy to behold as he lost.

He proved himself to be even more of a despicable person with domestic violence and voice message of threatening his ex in a custody battle.

Putting aside personal bias. I understand he is very likely about to be a Laker. Prefer it as a vet min end of the bench low risk option. I am questioning those with the opinion that there is something more to expect from him.

We will have to wait to see what kind of impact he actually has on the court. I’m not expecting much. Maybe I’m wrong. I was about Howard. That knucklehead made it through the season. Maybe Cousins can too.


Here’s the thing.

When can you accept the worst case scenario.

Then it’s easier to take risk.

Boogie experiment failed, waived him so we can get someone from the buyout.

The upside.

You have a skilled big that can initiate the offense.

For a championship team that has little flexibility , you have to find bargains with higher upside.

We need that wildcard so to speak .


I understand the realities. Just not liking this option.

Pretty big leap of faith and will need to be proven he can still be a “skilled big man who can initiate the offense”.

With GS in the playoffs I remember liability on defense, careless turnovers, stupid techs and poor 25% 3pt. Same issues he has had his entire career when healthy. The last 3 seasons he has played 48, 30 and 0 games per year.

I hate the idea of him sitting on the end of the bench towel waving his way to ring if the Lakers are fortunate enough to be in that position again next year. But I have little confidence he can contribute as much defense or initiating as some are describing. His deficiencies will get him played off the court in matchups all season long but especially against good players/ teams.


Not a leap of faith for the minimum.

If he’s big net negative, waive him

And we can move on.

If he balled then utilized him for 10-15 minutes.

Here’s my opinion on Boogie.

I always thought he is elite offensively and even with injuries , I don’t think that will affect him that much at that end as he rely more with his strength and his skills. He also has that vision with passing skips that make him able to initiate offense. Having said that, he’s mediocre defensively and those major injuries will definitely make him more even atrocious. Even at his best, he can never have that impact . You know a big that can carry his team to a playoff at a very least. Also he is very annoying with his antics and his negative emotions rubs the people around him with negative energy.

Now for our team his positives outweigh his negative as he’s playing a small role and AD can erase some of his defensive shortcomings. Also we have players that are mentally strong and experience enough that nothing can unfaze them. And we have Duds at the end of our bench, him and Boogie can talk .
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject:

dfchang813 wrote:
Why are people acting we are fixing this guy the max? 🤷🏻‍♂️😂😂

It’s. Vet minimum contract come on now.

We took that chance on Dwight and he was a damn important rotation player and critical in is winning a chip.

Why wouldn’t we roll the dice again on Cousins??


That's not the issue..

The issue I'm having with some of you is penciling him in as a starter and expecting stellar play.

He's not a starter, and he doesn't play defense. That's a pretty big deal.
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LAKERMIKE2
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject:

I think we definitely try to sign him if deal can be made, especially if we lose Dwight. Boogie is much lighter & can shoot 3’s, I think he’ll buy into playing defense to. Need a big for regular season to keep AD from wearing down, I think a lotta team are gonna try to sign our guys so we’ll need to replace them & if he stays healthy he’s definitely worth having if price is right & he’s willing. As long as Dwight, KCP, Rondo or Boogie don’t go to Clippers I’m good.

I saw 12 of these so far, got room for more...
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JPaulK0n
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:16 pm    Post subject:

Only potential issue I can see is how Cousins will react if he has to come off the bench or in the playoffs against certain match-ups ends up getting little playing time or DNP's like Howard & McGee who sacrificed and didn't complain about their PT. Cousins is too talented offensively to not get playing time in the playoffs, but teams will attack him on defense. Both Howard & McGee had been in the league for a long time and accepted their roles for the team being vet's, while Cousins imo is still going to try to get paid and try to still put up big numbers since he's only 30 at this stage of his career coming off 2 major injuries. Best case scenario Cousins becomes that 3rd option for this Lakers squad. As the 4th option on the Warriors, in the regular season he put up 16/8/3 with 1.5 bpg and 1.3 spg in 25.7 mpg. Those stats would automatically make him the Lakers 3rd best player and can realistically put up those stats on this Lakers team imo. Plus, a frontcourt of Bron, AD, & Cousins would force the rest of the league to get bigger and would further show that you can't play small ball against this Lakers team.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:53 pm    Post subject:

A healthy Demarcus Cousins is an upgrade over both Howard and McGee.

If Cousins is really healthy and we had to choose between Howard and McGee, I go with Howard.

Best case scenario, our opening day centers are Cousins & Howard with McGee having been traded to any team but the Clippers.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:04 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
dfchang813 wrote:
Why are people acting we are fixing this guy the max? 🤷🏻‍♂️😂😂

It’s. Vet minimum contract come on now.

We took that chance on Dwight and he was a damn important rotation player and critical in is winning a chip.

Why wouldn’t we roll the dice again on Cousins??


That's not the issue..

The issue I'm having with some of you is penciling him in as a starter and expecting stellar play.

He's not a starter, and he doesn't play defense. That's a pretty big deal.


Why does it matter if he starts and can still play? His defense is a not an issue to me. Specially with all the defensive guys we have.

What I love about the Lakers were the line-up versatility. They can match and adjust with any teams line-up. If healthy, Cousins add another dimension to the team. His offensive skills outweighs his defense. With one leg he’s still a better or the same defender as Jokic. He has the offensive skills of Jokic in a 20mpg production.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I already stated I am biased. I don’t like Cousins. Watching him play in Sac and NO was always an annoyance. His surly demeanor and constant techs for complaining or worse were a joy to behold as he lost.

He proved himself to be even more of a despicable person with domestic violence and voice message of threatening his ex in a custody battle.

Putting aside personal bias. I understand he is very likely about to be a Laker. Prefer it as a vet min end of the bench low risk option. I am questioning those with the opinion that there is something more to expect from him.

We will have to wait to see what kind of impact he actually has on the court. I’m not expecting much. Maybe I’m wrong. I was about Howard. That knucklehead made it through the season. Maybe Cousins can too.


I hear what your saying and practically agree with all you posted. The key, if he's going to be here, is to get his ass in line. LeBron and AD are the leaders, the tone they set is the tone you and the rest follow, or your time here will be short.

Doesn't that sounds like a previous scenario for a player who did exactly that? the same player who now has not only a ring, but the respect of his peers as well?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:31 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers was using the bigs for two things, rebound and defend. I don't see where he fits into the Laker structure.
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MookieBetts50
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:33 pm    Post subject:

This dude or Baynes would be fine along with bringing back Dwight, hope McGee gets dealt.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject:

My ideal lineup for the center position would be Dwight and Baynes. If we consider the fact that Davis will play some minutes at the center position and we want to bring Morris back for defensive small ball lineup, there really isn't any minute for Cousins even if he is healthy. Can he accept the role of as a 3rd string center? How would he react sitting on the bench without getting any meaningful when he feels he is fully healthy?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
My ideal lineup for the center position would be Dwight and Baynes. If we consider the fact that Davis will play some minutes at the center position and we want to bring Morris back for defensive small ball lineup, there really isn't any minute for Cousins even if he is healthy. Can he accept the role of as a 3rd string center? How would he react sitting on the bench without getting any meaningful when he feels he is fully healthy?


If he’s healthy... Lakers are not signing him to be an end of the bench guy. If that’s the case he can just simply sign with other contenders and get a bigger role. Warriors, Clippers, Dallas, Heat, Rockets.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:37 pm    Post subject:

New Cousins training video, I think he already loss alot of weight and around 80% healthy.

https://youtu.be/n7UZUV5LtZs
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
New Cousins training video, I think he already loss alot of weight and around 80% healthy.

https://youtu.be/n7UZUV5LtZs


He looks like a beast. Can he stay healthy?
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J.C. Smith
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject:

He also gives you a guy with legitimate center size who can hit the three. The problem with Javele to me is that he doesn't give you anything that Howard doesn't give you, and I'd like to see Dwight back. Cousins does give you something that Howard doesn't. He can create and can score inside or out.

Can his body still do that and stay healthy? The jury is out on that, but its a low risk play. He looked to be in great shape before his injury last season, and he looks like he's in great shape now. Losing weight could help him stay healthy and he's fighting for his career. I think it's a no brainer to sign him to a minimum deal.

The Golden State version of Cousins was not the player he was pre-injury and that may be the best we can hope for (and likely less than that). But that version of him still gave them 16.3, 8.2, 3.6, 1.5 and 1.3 in 26 minutes. If his body can hold up he can be a contributor. You take the chance.

It would also be foolish to think that the Lakers don't have a pretty good idea of where his health is at.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:04 pm    Post subject:

He was in great shape when he tore his ACL. Was that just a freak accident or more than that??

ACL doesn’t seem related to Achilles and quad. It’s more a freak accident thing that’s often non contact.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:24 pm    Post subject:

dfchang813 wrote:
leking006 wrote:
New Cousins training video, I think he already loss alot of weight and around 80% healthy.

https://youtu.be/n7UZUV5LtZs


He looks like a beast. Can he stay healthy?


One thing I notice in that video... His working out without any sleeves or brace on his knees, legs, or ankle. Looks like a good sign on how healthy he is. Can he stay healthy? I don’t think he knows himself. That’s the only question about him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:39 pm    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
dfchang813 wrote:
Why are people acting we are fixing this guy the max? 🤷🏻‍♂️😂😂

It’s. Vet minimum contract come on now.

We took that chance on Dwight and he was a damn important rotation player and critical in is winning a chip.

Why wouldn’t we roll the dice again on Cousins??


That's not the issue..

The issue I'm having with some of you is penciling him in as a starter and expecting stellar play.

He's not a starter, and he doesn't play defense. That's a pretty big deal.


Why does it matter if he starts and can still play? His defense is a not an issue to me. Specially with all the defensive guys we have.

What I love about the Lakers were the line-up versatility. They can match and adjust with any teams line-up. If healthy, Cousins add another dimension to the team. His offensive skills outweighs his defense. With one leg he’s still a better or the same defender as Jokic. He has the offensive skills of Jokic in a 20mpg production.


Don't think I could disagree more.. This idea that others should cover for the deficiencies in another guy on the court defensively and compromise the entire set is absurd to me. That doesn't make any sense at all with all due respect. All it takes is one defensive break down or mismatch to cause problems on that end.

And no.. offensive prowess doesn't make up for poor defense. Especially when that offensive prowess is average. And at this stage of his career, he's average offensively.
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