How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).
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How far would they have made it?
Championship
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Lost in finals
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Lost in WCF
16%
 16%  [ 6 ]
Lost in semis
29%
 29%  [ 11 ]
Lost in first round
18%
 18%  [ 7 ]
Missed playoffs
29%
 29%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 37

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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:

PG: Ball
SG: Russell
SF: Ingram
PF: LeBron
C: Randle/Zubac

Bench: Randle/Zubac, Clarkson, Hart, Kuzma, Thomas Bryant
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:57 pm    Post subject:

Assuming we never lost any of our young players, That roster should be good enough to make the WCF (at best) but never win a ring.. would take too long for the rest of the young kids to turn into championship winning cable players.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject:

The coach matters to the extent of playoff seeding. Probably don't want Vogel for this roster. The lack of defense is a bad fit for his coaching philosophy.
But I don't see the squad beating the Clippers or Bucks no matter who the coach is.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:11 pm    Post subject:

let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:53 pm    Post subject:

Although i miss Lonzo's unselfish play, i don't miss sucking.

I say no chance at a championship and that's really all that matters
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:47 pm    Post subject:

Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:50 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.


LeBron has trouble playing the facilitator role? AD is being used as a role player? We should be running Dwight, McGee, and AD together?

I know it's been awhile since we've watched basketball but I have no idea what you're talking about and why you're thinking that way.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:07 pm    Post subject:

When Lebron and AD are on the court this is what happens:

Lebron dribbles the ball at the top of the arc until the shot clock is well below 15s. Often 10s or less.

He *may* pass the ball to AD after trying to drive. AD catches the ball around the arc, on the sides. Now AD has 5s to do something. If the defender is squared up on him, he probably will be forced to shoot a long jumper.

This is a waste of AD. The same is true for anyone else. The problem is that lebron wasted 10-15s just dribbling the ball at the top of the arc.

AD is best suited to do some damage around 10-15 feet around the rim. But lbj will not get 10+ assists if that is the goal. This means we are not playing to our strengths, and instead, we are playing in a way to get lebron 10+ assists. This is not ideali for winning a ring.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:25 pm    Post subject:

Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Not sure if that team could defend anybody, but they'd be great offensively - so probably #4-5 seed.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:20 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.



One of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. No one on LG thinks AD is a role player. Everyone knows he is a top 5 player in the league
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:38 pm    Post subject:

I’m fairly certain the only reason Lebron came to LA is because they had an agreement to trade the kids for Anthony. That’s sort of been Lebron’s M.O. this decade with each of his super teams. He signed with Miami when they had Bosh. He signed with Cleveland when they had Love. He signed with LA when they had Davis. Not to mention none of the kids fit his play style.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:43 am    Post subject:

BigBallerBrand wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
let me tell you guys something that I think goes completely unappreciated in our discussions here....


AD is our best player. It's not lebron. Lebron has trouble playing the facilitator role, and he covers it up by trying to get 10+ assists. In his efforts to get 10+ assists, he is preventing ANYNONE else from making any significant decisions on the team. As a result, it seems like AD is just a regular role player, along the lines of a samaki walker or Odom to a degree...although I don't like the ODom analogy. Maybe Pau, but I don't like that either.


Now, I've heard people say that AD is not capable of being the star player. But I don't think that's true.

THe idea that we will win a championship without AD is crazy. It's more likely we can win a ring without LBJ. But the only problem there is that LBJ will get calls and other things in his favor that are very important in a ring run. He has the ball in his hands a lot. AD does not. AD can only react to what LBJ gives him.

Earlier in the season, whoever was writing the game recaps....he mentioned that AD is more an MVP of the league than GIannis, and I agree. AD is exquisitely skilled and capable. So the problem is lebron requires too much ballhandling and time with the ball in his hands.

I don't think this will ever be "fixed". As a result, I feel most fans are going to see AD as a failed experiment as the 2nd star on this team. But it's only because we are doing this style where lebron needs to get 10+ assists.

AD is very talented, and we are wasting him. Furthermore, our strategy should be trying to overwhelm teams with the AD-Dwite-mcG combo, not with lebron trying to get 10+ assists.

Vogel said they focused over the break on certain things. Let's hope it involves maximizing our strengths, not our weaknesses. But i doubt it, because the only way that happens is if lebron sacrifices his target stat numbers.



One of the worst takes I’ve ever seen. No one on LG thinks AD is a role player. Everyone knows he is a top 5 player in the league


Yeah that's one big uni-brow havin straw man right there.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am    Post subject:

You forgot to include Nance for the bench and last year’s # 4 pick to your proposed roster.

And which James are we discussing, last years disinterested or this year’s MVP candidate? That would impact how far that team would go in the playoffs.

Just to add another thought, imagine that young core of players and adding Davis as a free agent. Now that would intrigue me. With or without James.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:16 am    Post subject:

No playoffs the same way like last year. That team is severely undersized and will be punished by every team. Also, will play Lebron Ball the last 9 minutes of the game, again like last year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:04 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?



Not sure if Russell would be voted in as a Western Conference All Star on merit.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:14 am    Post subject:

A team with LeBron + the kids would be making runs at the WCFs which is a exciting goal but I’m fine with our current roster as long as the FO retools the roster with nice signings/trades every off season we will be contending for titles for years to come.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:24 am    Post subject:

Western semi finals or so
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:30 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Western semi finals or so


Depends how well guys like DLO and Ingram played but I think they could have made runs at the WCF.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?



Not sure if Russell would be voted in as a Western Conference All Star on merit.


Yeah, Russell is a borderline all-star who probably wouldn't have made an all-star team as the second or third banana on the Lakers.

We can only guess how Ingram would have developed in difference circumstances.

Lot of what-ifs and guesses to this one.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am    Post subject:

WCF ceiling type of team, more likely a 2nd round exit
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

CandyCanes wrote:
Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:


1 - can't have Kuz & Russell together because they were traded for each other (plus Mozgov, too), so the question is flawed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html

Quote:
June 22, 2017: Traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Brook Lopez to the Los Angeles Lakers for Timofey Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

Dr. Laker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:


1 - can't have Kuz & Russell together because they were traded for each other (plus Mozgov, too), so the question is flawed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html

Quote:
June 22, 2017: Traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Brook Lopez to the Los Angeles Lakers for Timofey Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell.


Well, we could have used the pick we used on Hart on Kuzma instead. So I guess we wouldn’t have Hart.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Lakeshow323 wrote:
Fighting for 8th, and thats assuming good health.


With LeBron + two all-stars in Ingram and Russell?



Not sure if Russell would be voted in as a Western Conference All Star on merit.


Yeah, Russell is a borderline all-star who probably wouldn't have made an all-star team as the second or third banana on the Lakers.

We can only guess how Ingram would have developed in difference circumstances.

Lot of what-ifs and guesses to this one.


Do you think the Pelicans would have accepted a package of Ball, Ingram, and Randle instead at the trade deadline of last season? That would have gotten us AD a season earlier and left us with Russell as the third option.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: How good would this team be with LeBron + the full young core intact? (But no AD).

CandyCanes wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Let's assume we never signed MozDeng and were able to keep all of our young prospects, and never traded for AD. So:


1 - can't have Kuz & Russell together because they were traded for each other (plus Mozgov, too), so the question is flawed.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kuzmaky01.html

Quote:
June 22, 2017: Traded by the Brooklyn Nets with Brook Lopez to the Los Angeles Lakers for Timofey Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell.


Well, we could have used the pick we used on Hart on Kuzma instead. So I guess we wouldn’t have Hart.


Abstract it out more . . . without MozDeng, maybe we keep LouWill instead of trading him for the pick that turned into Hart.
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