Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?
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BigBallerBrand
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?

I remember in 2012 there was a thread on here that showed a pic of Dwight’s FT % during practice and it was about 90%....to be fair I think everyone on that team (and in the NBA) shoots that well during practice.

At Orlando, with no fans, is it possible that everyone shoots at a higher percentage?
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defense
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:42 am    Post subject:

Fatigue plays a big part of why free throws are more difficult in games.it's not just the pressure. Also when you practice you get in a rhythm. You can't do that in game.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:08 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Fatigue plays a big part of why free throws are more difficult in games.it's not just the pressure. Also when you practice you get in a rhythm. You can't do that in game.
Heck yeah, but there is a mental component too.
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fansincemagic
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:17 am    Post subject:

I mean you bring up a good question that could be applied to overall shooting. How much is mental (practice vs game, fans vs no fans) is hard to estimate. The Machine used to dominate in practice and shot 39% and 37% for his career.

Having LBJ/AD gets you more open looks than the majority of teams. I'd be interested to see if guys, especially younger ones like Caruso start hitting more open shots. Same goes on the opposite end for players like JR that can hit clutch shots, does not having the fans affect them?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:13 pm    Post subject:

I remember this happening during the 2012-2013 season... Embarrassing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUTx4_gUcUk&t
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
I remember in 2012 there was a thread on here that showed a pic of Dwight’s FT % during practice and it was about 90%....to be fair I think everyone on that team (and in the NBA) shoots that well during practice.



The absence of pressure during practice helps some players more than others. Reminds me of ol' Sasha Vujacic -- he ought to hold off on being a winemaker and dust off that uniform. Someone said that the self-proclaimed Machine couldn't miss in practice.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject:

fts are all about practice. there is no mystery about why anyone would be shooting under 80% in the nba, and all it is is they don't practice enough to shoot higher than that. There is no unusual characteristics, like big hands or whatever excuse there is....mental problem....whatever. it's all mental. it's all physical. everyone has to overcome the mentality of shooting it. So the guys that don't do it are simply not practicing.

dwight most likely practices working out to make his deltoids very large vs practicing fts.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject:

No.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
I remember in 2012 there was a thread on here that showed a pic of Dwight’s FT % during practice and it was about 90%....to be fair I think everyone on that team (and in the NBA) shoots that well during practice.

At Orlando, with no fans, is it possible that everyone shoots at a higher percentage?


There are a million theories why some players shoot free throws poorly, but no one seems to really know for certain. It's probable the reasons are different for different players.

So anyone who goes by one single theory for all bad free throwing (big hands, lack of practice, shot arch affected by height, skill set, mental focus, whatever) is going to lack convincing proof as well as confront a lot of contradictory examples.

I doubt removing fans will turn Dwight into s 90%er at the line.

Dwight doesn't even know himself. Once Dwight said he shot better on the road because there was less pressure. In reality, he shoots exactly the same on FTs for his career at home and on the road.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?

activeverb wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
I remember in 2012 there was a thread on here that showed a pic of Dwight’s FT % during practice and it was about 90%....to be fair I think everyone on that team (and in the NBA) shoots that well during practice.

At Orlando, with no fans, is it possible that everyone shoots at a higher percentage?


There are a million theories why some players shoot free throws poorly, but no one seems to really know for certain. It's probable the reasons are different for different players.

So anyone who goes by one single theory for all bad free throwing (big hands, lack of practice, shot arch affected by height, skill set, mental focus, whatever) is going to lack convincing proof as well as confront a lot of contradictory examples.

I doubt removing fans will turn Dwight into s 90%er at the line.

Dwight doesn't even know himself. Once Dwight said he shot better on the road because there was less pressure. In reality, he shoots exactly the same on FTs for his career at home and on the road.

there are most certainly NOT a million theories. It's practice. There is no way around it. Especially if you are talking above 80% nba ft showing. It's practice. People say it's mental or something. But the whole sport is mental. It's not like it's mental for someone and not mental for the other. Nobody comes out of the womb shooting 80% ft. It's practice.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:49 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:

there are most certainly NOT a million theories. It's practice. There is no way around it. Especially if you are talking above 80% nba ft showing. It's practice. People say it's mental or something. But the whole sport is mental. It's not like it's mental for someone and not mental for the other. Nobody comes out of the womb shooting 80% ft. It's practice.


Here's an interesting tidbit for you. when Dwight was first on the Lakers, a reporter managed to take a photograph of the stats the Lakers kept for practices thru the all-star break.

Dwight actually took more free throws in practice than anyone else on the team (as far as I know there is no evidence to support your assumption that Dwight doesn't practice his free throws.).

As far as I could make out from the stat sheet that was published, there is no strong correlation between how may free throws guys shot in practice and their percentages during games.

Not saying this is the end all be all. But again, as far as I know, there is no real evidence to support the theory that the amount or quality of free throw practice affects free throw success.

If you or anyone else knows of any such evidence, I'd be interested in seeing it. And while I am happy to hear information that contradicts me, my sense is that there isn't one, simple reason (or one simple solution) for all bad free throwing. I think it's much more complex than that.


Last edited by activeverb on Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:23 am    Post subject:

You know guys, besides Dwight's free throws, I am wondering no fans may affect other players like Kuzma's three pointers.

Who knows..it will be interesting to see.

Also, the hard point is besides being no fans, there is still pressure of the game in general..like for example, in the playoffs, every game counts. So I don't really know for sure if Dwight and Kuzma will still have the same issues at the free throw and 3 point line.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject:

lar9149 wrote:
You know guys, besides Dwight's free throws, I am wondering no fans may affect other players like Kuzma's three pointers.

Who knows..it will be interesting to see.

Also, the hard point is besides being no fans, there is still pressure of the game in general..like for example, in the playoffs, every game counts. So I don't really know for sure if Dwight and Kuzma will still have the same issues at the free throw and 3 point line.


It will be interesting to see what happens.

I don't have any stats to support this, but I would expect that free throw percentage remains pretty consistent from regular season to playoffs but 3-point shooting takes a dip. That's because I'd expect better defensive teams to be more likely to make the playoffs, and players would increase their focus.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject:

No.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:09 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
No.

but....what if he does?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:18 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
No.

but....what if he does?


Let me know when he changes form and is able to slow down his heart rate rapidly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:34 am    Post subject:

Games matter, practices don't. Fans don't make a difference at this caliber of play.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:19 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Fatigue plays a big part of why free throws are more difficult in games.it's not just the pressure. Also when you practice you get in a rhythm. You can't do that in game.



That's one theory. There is that shooting coach who suggests that players practice free throws during scrimmages when they're tired.

The issue with this theory is, as far as I know, everyone practices free throws in pretty much the same way (typically block practices, where you shoot a bunch of free throws over and over). So if this is truly the issue, why does it affect only some players, and not all players?

And that's the underlying problem with all the various free throw theories. That's why I think there are lots of different issues that affect different players differently. But all the theories are hard to test, so they tend to be anecdotal and what the proponents for the different theories think is common sense, but sometimes the truth is more elusive and less obvious.


Last edited by activeverb on Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
Games matter, practices don't. Fans don't make a difference at this caliber of play.



There is certainly evidence that teams win significantly more at home than on the road. Fans may be one part of that, although it's difficult if not impossible to break down the individual components.

However, free throw percentage at home and on the road is virtually the same across the league -- 75.2% vs. 75.0% so home-court advantage doesn't affect free throws.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
Fatigue plays a big part of why free throws are more difficult in games.it's not just the pressure. Also when you practice you get in a rhythm. You can't do that in game.



That's a big issue. If a guy shoots 1,000 free throws in a row everyday in practice, over time he'll get better at shooting 1,000 free throws in a row every in practice. However, that won't necessarily transfer over to shooting free throws better two at a time in game situations.

I don't think anyone's cracked this nut. If they had, every player in the league would be a good free thrower. The notion that there is a simple solution, and the bad free throwers just ignore the simple solution, doesn't make sense to me.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?

XTC wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
I remember in 2012 there was a thread on here that showed a pic of Dwight’s FT % during practice and it was about 90%....to be fair I think everyone on that team (and in the NBA) shoots that well during practice.



The absence of pressure during practice helps some players more than others. Reminds me of ol' Sasha Vujacic -- he ought to hold off on being a winemaker and dust off that uniform. Someone said that the self-proclaimed Machine couldn't miss in practice.



Some of this I take with a grain of salt. You hear all sorts of claims of how good players are in practices, but we don't really know. It's not like there are practice stats we can look at to show us that player X is shooting that much better.

Also, there are other possible factors beyond the absence of pressure. Since nothing is at stake, players might be defended less hard in practice and be able to get off easier shots. The difference between a little less defense at the NBA level is significant. I met an ex-NBA player who was a great shooter in college and so-so in the pros who told me he would have been an all star if he could have shot how he wanted to, but the speed of the NBA game didn't allow that. And practice isn't always 5 on 5, so it can be a very different game.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: Will Dwight shoot 90% FT with no fans?

XTC wrote:
BigBallerBrand wrote:
I remember in 2012 there was a thread on here that showed a pic of Dwight’s FT % during practice and it was about 90%....to be fair I think everyone on that team (and in the NBA) shoots that well during practice.



The absence of pressure during practice helps some players more than others. Reminds me of ol' Sasha Vujacic -- he ought to hold off on being a winemaker and dust off that uniform. Someone said that the self-proclaimed Machine couldn't miss in practice.



Some of this I take with a grain of salt. You hear all sorts of claims of how good players are in practices, but we don't really know. It's not like there are practice stats we can look at to show us that player X is shooting that much better.

Also, there are other possible factors beyond the absence of pressure. Since nothing is at stake, players might be defended less hard in practice and be able to get off easier shots. The difference between a little less defense at the NBA level is significant. I met an ex-NBA player who was a great shooter in college and so-so in the pros who told me he would have been an all star if he could have shot how he wanted to, but the speed of the NBA game didn't allow that. And practice isn't always 5 on 5, so it can be a very different game.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject:

Obviously there are a lot of variables, but it will be interesting to see who performs above the norm during the non fan period.

It seems like it would help those who are easily angered, distracted, or rattled by fans.

It also might hurt those who feed off of the fans' energy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:26 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
No.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:40 pm    Post subject:

ok i hate to say you guys saying some of this dont play ball, but it sounds like it, but whatever...not trying to provoke you.....


The idea that you can be like 90% ft in practice or non game situations, and 50-60 in real game situations is not supported. go find a single person like this.
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