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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7157
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: Bottom line is Buss is concerned about the luxury tax |
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| I never thaught I'd see this day where Buss would turn into a tight ass. If we made a minor deal, I think we could have gotten into the second round of the playoffs. As usual, no moves were made and I don't see us making any moves in the summer that will increase payroll. Its a shame if we don't get Kobe some help. I hope I'm wrong, but its starting to look like we may be wasting Kobe's prime years. Kobe is already older than his age because he has been getting pounded in the league for 10 years now. The 2007 plan is a joke. Hopefully, KG makes a play to join us this summer. |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: |
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A minor deal wouldn't have put us over the luxury tax.
It would take a very big deal to do that.
Our not making a move has nothing to do with what you're saying.
I'll be happy to explain again how this works if you still need clarification.
Until then stop calling out Dr. Buss when you don't have a clue how the
salary cap and luxury tax systems work. |
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7157
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Don't tell me he is not concerned about the luxury tax. First of all, why would he release Grant? Teams whose payrolls exceed $61.7 million for the upcoming season will have to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the overage (look it up). Currently our payroll is at 61 million.
RANK TEAM TOTAL SALARY
1) New York Knicks $103,100,000
2) Dallas Mavericks $90,900,00
3) Portland Trail Blazers $75,000,000
4) Philadelphia 76ers $70,700,000
5) Minnesota Timberwolves $70,300,000
6) Memphis Grizzlies $68,100,000
7) Indiana Pacers $63,200,000
8) Boston Celtics $63,000,000
9) Sacramento Kings $62,000,000
10) Los Angeles Lakers $61,000,000
A minor deal would put us over the level. That is why we did not spend our entire mid level exemption. We could have signed a veteran instead of having guys like Green on the roster. We could have traded our ending contracts for something.
Therefore, you are wrong.
A minor deal would put us over the luxury tax.
It wouldn't take a very big deal to do that.
I'll be happy to explain again how this works if you still need clarification.
You don't have a clue how the
salary cap and luxury tax systems work. |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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He should be.
Good owners don't tie themselves to an unproven roster for 4-5 years at huge amounts. |
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kobenbynum
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Nine posts and he's trash talking Soda. 
Looks like we got a live one here!
Edit: btw realgm says the Lakers had a deal in place for Boozer but the Jazz decided to wait till the summer. |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Why pay tax if you don't have to do that. I'm glad the Lakers waived Brian Grant. The money is more well spent on Phil Jackson. The bottomline is Kobe must be kept happy. He has confidence in Phil. Kobe knows the triangle. The $30M is better spent that way.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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osj
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2819
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| why pay luxury tax just to make it to the 2nd round? |
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msb212
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 9251
Location: Courtside
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| the lakers tried to do deals. unfortunately, no one wanted our crap. had nothing to do with the luxury tax. we tried to get both Boozer and patterson. |
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osj
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 2819
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| msb212 wrote: | | the lakers tried to do deals. unfortunately, no one wanted our crap. had nothing to do with the luxury tax. we tried to get both Boozer and patterson. |
nice avatar, msb212! |
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The Dagger
Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| msb212 wrote: | | the lakers tried to do deals. unfortunately, no one wanted our crap. had nothing to do with the luxury tax. we tried to get both Boozer and patterson. |
Don't blame the players blame the GM. GM's rip off other GM's every day, it's all about selling your "crap" to that other team. Our GM can't do that. He's not Jerry West or Colangelo, he's Mitch Kupchak - and that's our problem.
I don't know how many deals he's failed to close. Even the good ones he's screwed up like the GP debacle. I won't even get into the Snaq fiasco. Other deals he's reportedly failed to close are BD, Cat Mobley, Boozer, K-Mart, DA, Patterson, Frances, Boozer, Kapono, Magloire, Watson, and possibly even KG and T-Mac. And these are only the ones we know about!
As for the deals he's completed Mihm for GP was a good one, maybe? Since he failed to disclose the trade to GP and smooth it out with him, we lost our draft pick which may end up being a lottery pick this year. Shaq should've been traded to Utah for a second round draft pick, freeing up cap-space immediately. Or at least stand firm for Wade, Eddie and Grant. I think Riley would have eventually caved in, since he'd be keeping Odom and Butler and get rid of two nuclear contracts in the process. And don't give me Kobe would've left. You don't think West would've smoothed things over with Kobe and told him we are going to trade fat ass no matter what, and that if he gives him time he will be able to surround him with better players? Kobe's not stupid, he would've done whatever it took to help the team, did Mitch even talk to him? And how did he screw up the Cat Mobley trade. We had him for Gump and Sac comes in and gets him for the Christies? - who's not even in the league anymore and his contract was almost double that of Gumps.
Anyways, I've come to the realizatio that we are stuck with Mitch, and he will soon take this team down with him.
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The great Laker Center Tradition continues.....Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol, AD....Gasol. |
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LakersSpirit
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:30 am Post subject: |
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I have a feeling, that if an owner, like Cuban, had been at the helm, we would still have Jumaine Jones, and Caron Butler.... I think they would have been a great help, off the bench.
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"Teamwork is a nebulous thing. It is as ephemeral as love, disappearing at the latest insult.".... Phil Jackson |
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Mailman04
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 904
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you The Dagger. I am sick and tired of reading how no one wants the Laker's crap. Yet, I watch good players such as Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Vince Carter traded for other people's crap. Hell, Shaq to a degree was traded for crap. Then I watch role players who would have helped the Lakers such as Flip Murray traded for crap. Don't tell me it isn't Mitch Kupchak who can't close a deal except for Vlade Divac and Aaron McKie. |
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mm708
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's all be patient. Detroit went through hard times arfter the early 90's and look at them no title contenders for the next five years. |
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JIFISH
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 9315
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | Don't tell me he is not concerned about the luxury tax. First of all, why would he release Grant? Teams whose payrolls exceed $61.7 million for the upcoming season will have to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the overage (look it up). Currently our payroll is at 61 million.
RANK TEAM TOTAL SALARY
1) New York Knicks $103,100,000
2) Dallas Mavericks $90,900,00
3) Portland Trail Blazers $75,000,000
4) Philadelphia 76ers $70,700,000
5) Minnesota Timberwolves $70,300,000
6) Memphis Grizzlies $68,100,000
7) Indiana Pacers $63,200,000
8) Boston Celtics $63,000,000
9) Sacramento Kings $62,000,000
10) Los Angeles Lakers $61,000,000
A minor deal would put us over the level. That is why we did not spend our entire mid level exemption. We could have signed a veteran instead of having guys like Green on the roster. We could have traded our ending contracts for something.
Therefore, you are wrong.
A minor deal would put us over the luxury tax.
It wouldn't take a very big deal to do that.
I'll be happy to explain again how this works if you still need clarification.
You don't have a clue how the
salary cap and luxury tax systems work. |
First of all, none of those teams above the Lakers on that list have any greater chance of winning a championship than the Lakers do. Did you not notice that? And the last two teams we defeated, and rather soundly, are both ranked with higher team salaries than the Lakers. Did you not notice that as well? Pistons are the defending champs and most favored to do it again--yet apparently their total salary is less than the Lakers. Their most likely competition in the East is the Heat, and amazingly they aren't on that list either. In the West, it seems to be between the Spurs and the Suns. Gee, they aren't above the Lakers in salary either. Could it possibly be that the team that spends the most money doesn't necessarily spend it the most wisely? Ask a Knicks fan if you don't already know the answer.
And the Lakers are 3 million below the luxury tax threshold. Given that they can only trade for players who make no more than 125% of the traded player's salary, do you know how much salary they would have to trade to get a player that makes over 3 million more than they are currently paying? They would need to trade at least 9 million in salaries to take back the 12 million that would put them AT the luxury tax threshold. And more than that to go over it. Is that your definition of a minor deal????
Aside from those minor oversights, your post is well reasoned. 
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I would rather have questions I cannot answer than answers I cannot question - Richard Feynman |
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Warm Fuzzies
Sixth Man
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The Dagger wrote: | | msb212 wrote: | | the lakers tried to do deals. unfortunately, no one wanted our crap. had nothing to do with the luxury tax. we tried to get both Boozer and patterson. |
Don't blame the players blame the GM. GM's rip off other GM's every day, it's all about selling your "crap" to that other team. Our GM can't do that. He's not Jerry West or Colangelo, he's Mitch Kupchak - and that's our problem.
I don't know how many deals he's failed to close. Even the good ones he's screwed up like the GP debacle. I won't even get into the Snaq fiasco. Other deals he's reportedly failed to close are BD, Cat Mobley, Boozer, K-Mart, DA, Patterson, Frances, Boozer, Kapono, Magloire, Watson, and possibly even KG and T-Mac. And these are only the ones we know about!
As for the deals he's completed Mihm for GP was a good one, maybe? Since he failed to disclose the trade to GP and smooth it out with him, we lost our draft pick which may end up being a lottery pick this year. Shaq should've been traded to Utah for a second round draft pick, freeing up cap-space immediately. Or at least stand firm for Wade, Eddie and Grant. I think Riley would have eventually caved in, since he'd be keeping Odom and Butler and get rid of two nuclear contracts in the process. And don't give me Kobe would've left. You don't think West would've smoothed things over with Kobe and told him we are going to trade fat ass no matter what, and that if he gives him time he will be able to surround him with better players? Kobe's not stupid, he would've done whatever it took to help the team, did Mitch even talk to him? And how did he screw up the Cat Mobley trade. We had him for Gump and Sac comes in and gets him for the Christies? - who's not even in the league anymore and his contract was almost double that of Gumps.
Anyways, I've come to the realizatio that we are stuck with Mitch, and he will soon take this team down with him. |
WADE EDDIE and GRANT?!!??! for Shaq??? Are you kidding me.... No way would Miami have give up Wade for anyone less than a KOBE. Wade was their future and they're not about to send off their best defender with their franchise player for physically-unreliable SHAQ. I think this forum is angry that we dont make trades for average players.
"BD, Cat Mobley, Boozer, K-Mart, DA, Patterson, Frances, Boozer, Kapono, Magloire"
BD- Contract, injury prone, angry publicy in almost any situation
Mobley-He's going to play what position backup SG? So we're gonna give him that much money to be a sixth man? I can hear the boards going crazy now.
Boozer-Injury prone big contract, wont play until he's happy
K-Mart-injury prone, contract
DA-what has he done this year....
Patterson- WE got rid of him a couple of years ago, he's the KOBE stopper and everytime Kobe lights him up for 30+ pts his team looks like a joke. We don't need scrubs making bold statements and making the Lakers look bad
FRANCIS*-Good teammate but he's a 2 stuck in a 1's body. We cant be paying superstar money to someone who isnt a PROVEN superstar.
Kapono- What is he going to do? Besides shoot the ball. We have Smush who can shoot it too, but Smush can do a lot more things than Kapono can. Kapono doesnt know defense. Why would we be going for shooters when what we need is defense and rebounds and assists. We have enough shooters. Cook is Kapono but better.
Magloire-This is good but who would we give up for Magloire. We're not giving up Odom for Magloire. They dont want Mihm for Magloire. We have nothing to offer.
Realize this people besides money we dont have much bargaining power. No one really wants to give their best player up for our SECOND BEST player. And the people on this board dont realize that, you guys put Lamar on a "great" level, but bash on his game night in and night out. I think the GMs are doing a good job by not listening to boards, because you guys have no faith in a SYSTEM. I dont want to be the Knicks who are exciting because they constantly make moves, but are stunted in who they pick up. |
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sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | Don't tell me he is not concerned about the luxury tax. First of all, why would he release Grant? Teams whose payrolls exceed $61.7 million for the upcoming season will have to pay a dollar-for-dollar tax on the overage (look it up). Currently our payroll is at 61 million.
RANK TEAM TOTAL SALARY
1) New York Knicks $103,100,000
2) Dallas Mavericks $90,900,00
3) Portland Trail Blazers $75,000,000
4) Philadelphia 76ers $70,700,000
5) Minnesota Timberwolves $70,300,000
6) Memphis Grizzlies $68,100,000
7) Indiana Pacers $63,200,000
8) Boston Celtics $63,000,000
9) Sacramento Kings $62,000,000
10) Los Angeles Lakers $61,000,000
A minor deal would put us over the level. That is why we did not spend our entire mid level exemption. We could have signed a veteran instead of having guys like Green on the roster. We could have traded our ending contracts for something.
Therefore, you are wrong.
A minor deal would put us over the luxury tax.
It wouldn't take a very big deal to do that.
I'll be happy to explain again how this works if you still need clarification.
You don't have a clue how the
salary cap and luxury tax systems work. |
Look dickmonkey, we're roughly $3 million under the luxury tax threshold.
Just because you list a number, doesn't make it correct.
In order to add $3m to our total figure, that $3 million would have to come
back in a trade wherein $3 million is 25% or less of the total value of
player contracts gong out (as a team over the salary cap, which we are,
we can only bring in 125% of the salary we send out in a trade).
Therefore, to bring in $3 million in additional salary, we'd need to send
out at least $12 million in salary.
Do you consider a $12 million+ trade a minor deal?
I'd welcome you to the world of being wrong, but...
1.) I don't live there, and
2.) Something tells me you've already made yourself comfy.
Peace out lurker. |
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Raptor2k
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 4426
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Warm Fuzzies wrote: |
WADE EDDIE and GRANT?!!??! for Shaq??? Are you kidding me.... No way would Miami have give up Wade for anyone less than a KOBE. Wade was their future and they're not about to send off their best defender with their franchise player for physically-unreliable SHAQ. I think this forum is angry that we dont make trades for average players.
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You realize that Wade was almost a Laker instead of Odom, right?
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"I accepted their challenge. I accepted the doubt of everyone who spoke on my downfall and used their words as fuel. I have a franchise to resurrect, a city of fans to uplift." |
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mm708
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The only Wade we have a chance at getting is Lorenzo Wade SG formally from Louisville now at San Diego State. |
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Klassix
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Posts: 1994
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| then why the hell would he take on a joke contract like Brian Grant AND give Kwame tard a 3rd year guaranteed? |
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lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersSpirit wrote: | | I have a feeling, that if an owner, like Cuban, had been at the helm, we would still have Jumaine Jones, and Caron Butler.... I think they would have been a great help, off the bench. |
The Cuban has how many rings? It doesnt come too my mind at this time, and i think he jus realized the concept pf run n' gun doesnt equal bling, bling. |
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LakersSpirit
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Boogieman2k5 wrote: | | Warm Fuzzies wrote: |
WADE EDDIE and GRANT?!!??! for Shaq??? Are you kidding me.... No way would Miami have give up Wade for anyone less than a KOBE. Wade was their future and they're not about to send off their best defender with their franchise player for physically-unreliable SHAQ. I think this forum is angry that we dont make trades for average players.
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You realize that Wade was almost a Laker instead of Odom, right? |
You also realize, that it was Payton, that probably destroyed the whole deal??... If Wade had come to the Lakers, and if we had kept Butler, and Jones, we probably would all be hailing the genius of Kupchak, while Buss would still be scratching his head, and wondering what happened. Of course, if we could have, somehow, brought in Odom, at the same time, it would have sweetened the deal, and given us another scoring option/rebounder. Wade would have been able to draw the team together, and instigate the offense.
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"Teamwork is a nebulous thing. It is as ephemeral as love, disappearing at the latest insult.".... Phil Jackson |
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Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Klassix wrote: | | then why the hell would he take on a joke contract like Brian Grant AND give Kwame tard a 3rd year guaranteed? |
Brian Grant's contract had to be included in the Shaq deal to make the deal work. There had to be nearly $30million in contracts coming in, so Grant's $15million was a necessity. Without Grant being included, Miami would have had to include about 8 players from their roster to add up to $30 million. That would have been an even bigger waste for te Lakers than just paying for Grant alone even though he was injured and did not play. If Miami would have been foolish enough to gut their team that way then the Lakers would have had to immediately waive 5 of the incoming players due to lack of roster space and still pay them and absorb the cap hit. That would just be felony stupid on all accounts.
Obviously the Laker organisation aren't desperate housewives and don't Barkley on Kwame the way many here do. They obviously are patient enough to let Kwame realise his potential. Many fans are wiving on Kwame, but the Lakers front office obviously isn't...
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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LakersSpirit
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| lakers0505 wrote: | | LakersSpirit wrote: | | I have a feeling, that if an owner, like Cuban, had been at the helm, we would still have Jumaine Jones, and Caron Butler.... I think they would have been a great help, off the bench. |
The Cuban has how many rings? It doesnt come too my mind at this time, and i think he jus realized the concept pf run n' gun doesnt equal bling, bling. |
I agree, Cuban is no genius... He just has enough money, to pretend... Still, I'm just saying, that his eccentricity, of paying out, for extra players, might have worked for us, in being able to keep Jumaine, and Caron.
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"Teamwork is a nebulous thing. It is as ephemeral as love, disappearing at the latest insult.".... Phil Jackson |
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LakersSpirit
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 13619
Location: West Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | Klassix wrote: | | then why the hell would he take on a joke contract like Brian Grant AND give Kwame tard a 3rd year guaranteed? |
Brian Grant's contract had to be included in the Shaq deal to make the deal work. There had to be nearly $30million in contracts coming in, so Grant's $15million was a necessity. Without Grant being included, Miami would have had to include about 8 players from their roster to add up to $30 million. That would have been an even bigger waste for te Lakers than just paying for Grant alone even though he was injured and did not play. If Miami would have been foolish enough to gut their team that way then the Lakers would have had to immediately waive 5 of the incoming players due to lack of roster space and still pay them and absorb the cap hit. That would just be felony stupid on all accounts.
Obviously the Laker organisation aren't desperate housewives and don't Barkley on Kwame the way many here do. They obviously are patient enough to let Kwame realise his potential. Many fans are wiving on Kwame, but the Lakers front office obviously isn't... |
Wasn't Brian Grant's future in doubt??... When he was a Laker, Grant looked like he should be playing in the Special Olympics... Kwame was a decent risk, considering all the options... Sometimes, you don't know what you got, till you try it out, for awhile. I also thought that Kwame was on the verge of a breakout season, and that he would prove all his critics wrong. What we got is, what looks like, Jermaine O'neal, on the bong...
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"Teamwork is a nebulous thing. It is as ephemeral as love, disappearing at the latest insult.".... Phil Jackson
Last edited by LakersSpirit on Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JerryWest_44
Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004
Posts: 25430
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| osj wrote: | | why pay luxury tax just to make it to the 2nd round? |
Because in order to become champions incremental changes have to be made -- one BIG trade is not going to do the trick either. |
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