Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:18 pm    Post subject: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

Ronald "Flip" Murray. this guy is instant offense. 17 points today against Detroit off the bench. Once he learns the Cavs offense he will be starting at SG until Hughes comes back. And all the Cavs had to give up is Mike Wilks and cash? i don't want to hear the excuse that Seattle would not deal him to the WEST because he is not a franchise player, but he is a scorer something we desperately need. go ahead and merge...i just had to get that off my chest and vent alittle. Damn you Mitch
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject:

That would mean we are trying to improve.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:32 pm    Post subject:

I was thinking the same thing while watching the Detroit/Cavs game this morning.. Haha.. the first thing I thought about was reporting back to the LG forums about how this guy would have improved our team. In previous threads, I wasn't as familar with his game so I didn't have much to comment about. But if the game he played this morning was any indication of what he could have brought to the Lakers (especially to a position where they are.. um.. lacking depth to say the least), then he would have been valuable.

But the trade season is over, in the past..
we can't really do much about it..
except bang our heads against the wall. That might ease the pain.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

#32MaGiC wrote:
Ronald "Flip" Murray. this guy is instant offense. 17 points today against Detroit off the bench. Once he learns the Cavs offense he will be starting at SG until Hughes comes back. And all the Cavs had to give up is Mike Wilks and cash? i don't want to hear the excuse that Seattle would not deal him to the WEST because he is not a franchise player, but he is a scorer something we desperately need. go ahead and merge...i just had to get that off my chest and vent alittle. Damn you Mitch


The Lakers have a full roster so they could not Isiah Flip unless they waived someone. Currently they are hoping McKie will be able to contribute before the playoffs, so they aren't going to waive him. That just leaves Slava, and obviously when they weighed the pros & cons of Flip, they decided the free cap space was more valuable than his services. Simple as that. Add to this the fact that Seattle doesn't trade with LA as a general rule and there's noone on the Lakers roster who Seattle has a need for in Flips price range so any trade was a non-starter as far as the Lakers are concerned.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject:

there was never an offer on the table. dont blame mitch. :roll:
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:52 pm    Post subject:

Yeah...noticed that too but it's Monday morning quarterback time for the trade deadline. Flip is better than Smush and could also provide instant offense off the bench at the SG spot.

The Sonics probably would've dealt him to a West team for a 2nd round pick and expiring contract...that is better than what they got from Cleveland. After Flip was not included in that Watson deal it was apparent Seattle was going to deal him somewhere on Thursday. Why do I get the feeling Mitch probably didn't even call the Sonics to inquire about him?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

Aussiesuede wrote:
there's noone on the Lakers roster who Seattle has a need for in Flips price range so any trade was a non-starter as far as the Lakers are concerned.


but Mike Wilks was needed? Seattle dumped him for nothing, plan and simple.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Purplereign34 wrote:
there was never an offer on the table. dont blame mitch. :roll:


its mitchell's job to get offers on the table.in all honesty, i don't really blame him for not getting flip, but i do blame him for not improving this team and wasting Kobe's prime years.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject:

psydesho wrote:
That would mean we are trying to improve.


exactly, thats against Mitch's nature
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

#32MaGiC wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
there's noone on the Lakers roster who Seattle has a need for in Flips price range so any trade was a non-starter as far as the Lakers are concerned.


but Mike Wilks was needed? Seattle dumped him for nothing, plan and simple.


As I said...Seattle doesn't trade with LA and certainly would never find itself in a position to potentailly help the Lakers unless it were receiving something in return which it just could not pass up. Seattle has a LOT of serious PR issues at the moment and there is a very real possibility of the team being moved. They are even less inclined than they normally are to have anything to do with the Laker organisation right now. Trust me, you've not a clue just how deep LA hatred is in that city. Something as seemingly inocuos as a trade of a second rate player to LA would draw the ire of Sonic fans. That organization won't do anything that could be even remotely seen as helpful to the Lakers. Flip was NEVER a possibility.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject:

Why would Seattle trade with Denver and the Clipps but not LA? That's ridiculous. Flip was there for the taking and we actually have a better 2nd rounder than the one they'll get from the Cavs.

It makes ZERO sense that we didn't get the guy..PERIOD. He plays no D but at least he'll contribute on offense unlike the guys we have who produce nothing on either end....
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Kobe2Lamar wrote:
Why would Seattle trade with Denver and the Clipps but not LA? That's ridiculous. Flip was there for the taking and we actually have a better 2nd rounder than the one they'll get from the Cavs.

It makes ZERO sense that we didn't get the guy..PERIOD. He plays no D but at least he'll contribute on offense unlike the guys we have who produce nothing on either end....


Go back over the past 20 years and try to find Seattle LA trades. There is no coincidnce for te answer....
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject:

LakerHabib wrote:
I was thinking the same thing while watching the Detroit/Cavs game this morning.. Haha.. the first thing I thought about was reporting back to the LG forums about how this guy would have improved our team. In previous threads, I wasn't as familar with his game so I didn't have much to comment about. But if the game he played this morning was any indication of what he could have brought to the Lakers (especially to a position where they are.. um.. lacking depth to say the least), then he would have been valuable.

But the trade season is over, in the past..
we can't really do much about it..
except bang our heads against the wall. That might ease the pain.


I was also thinking the same thing as I was watching the Detroit/Cleveland game.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:27 pm    Post subject:

I can't remember any trades to those other teams either. Stop making excuses for front office's ineptitude. Why stockpile all these 2nd round picks (plus the ones we traded the only good roleplayers for) to draft more garbage in the offseason?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject:

Kobe2Lamar wrote:
I can't remember any trades to those other teams either. Stop making excuses for front office's ineptitude. Why stockpile all these 2nd round picks (plus the ones we traded the only good roleplayers for) to draft more garbage in the offseason?


So ronny turiaf,glibery Arenas,Carlos Boozer are garbage...2/3 are max players...and one looks too be a solid player in the future.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

#32MaGiC wrote:
Ronald "Flip" Murray. this guy is instant offense. 17 points today against Detroit off the bench. Once he learns the Cavs offense he will be starting at SG until Hughes comes back. And all the Cavs had to give up is Mike Wilks and cash? i don't want to hear the excuse that Seattle would not deal him to the WEST because he is not a franchise player, but he is a scorer something we desperately need. go ahead and merge...i just had to get that off my chest and vent alittle. Damn you Mitch


This "why didn't we try to acquire (insert name here)" has got to stop.

No offense but some fans 'round here drive me nuts with this particular behavior or obsession!!!!!!!!!

Go Lakers!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

Aussiesuede wrote:
The Lakers have a full roster so they could not Isiah Flip unless they waived someone.


That would be a big loss.

Quote:
Currently they are hoping McKie will be able to contribute before the playoffs, so they aren't going to waive him.


Currently I'm hoping I win the lotto. In the meantime, seeing as I won't hit the lottery, I kind of need to make plans to get on with my life. Same with Lakers and McKie.

Quote:
That just leaves Slava,


Well no, it leaves Green too.

Quote:
and obviously when they weighed the pros & cons of Flip, they decided the free cap space was more valuable than his services. Simple as that.


Let me see if I have this straight.

Slava is owed the remainder of his contract to do nothing till the end of the season right?

Flip is owed the remainder of his contract to actually play and then comes off the books the end of this season.

Ummm, yeah, it makes a lot of sense to pay a guy not to play as opposed to pay a guy who can play. Both have ending contracts, both are off the books at the end of the season. Cap cannot be invoked here. Just stupidity.

Quote:
Add to this the fact that Seattle doesn't trade with LA as a general rule


This is nonsense. Since when? As a general rule L.A. doesn't actually make any trades so how can anyone trade with the Lakers?

Quote:
and there's noone on the Lakers roster who Seattle has a need for in Flips price range so any trade was a non-starter as far as the Lakers are concerned.


Seattle didn't need Wilks. They got wanted a back up point and they got him in Watson. At that point Flip was expendable. He had been whining to be traded all season, he was going to walk in the summer anyway, and they have already given up on the season and committed to playing their younger players. In other words, Flip could have been had for just about anything. All you had to do was make an offer. I don't even see Mike Wilks on the official Sonics roster on NBA.com (updated 2/26/06), so it looks like they waived him already. So they basically gave away Flip for nothing. And even if they keep/kept Wilks we're talking a guy who's played on 6 teams in 4 years averaging 8 minutes and 2 ppg. That is basically nothing.

So nice justifications, and I'm sure Mitch told himself the same things. Bottom line is Murray could have been had for what we had to offer and that we could have used him.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

RG73 wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
The Lakers have a full roster so they could not Isiah Flip unless they waived someone.


That would be a big loss.

Quote:
Currently they are hoping McKie will be able to contribute before the playoffs, so they aren't going to waive him.


Currently I'm hoping I win the lotto. In the meantime, seeing as I won't hit the lottery, I kind of need to make plans to get on with my life. Same with Lakers and McKie.

Quote:
That just leaves Slava,


Well no, it leaves Green too.

Quote:
and obviously when they weighed the p

ros & cons of Flip, they decided the free cap space was more valuable than his services. Simple as that.


Let me see if I have this straight.

Slava is owed the remainder of his contract to do nothing till the end of the season right?

Flip is owed the remainder of his contract to actually play and then comes off the books the end of this season.

Ummm, yeah, it makes a lot of sense to pay a guy not to play as opposed to pay a guy who can play. Both have ending contracts, both are off the books at the end of the season. Cap cannot be invoked here. Just stupidity.

Quote:
Add to this the fact that Seattle doesn't trade with LA as a general rule


This is nonsense. Since when? As a general rule L.A. doesn't actually make any trades so how can anyone trade with the Lakers?

Quote:
and there's noone on the Lakers roster who Seattle has a need for in Flips price range so any trade was a non-starter as far as the Lakers are concerned.


Seattle didn't need Wilks. They got wanted a back up point and they got him in Watson. At that point Flip was expendable. He had been whining to be traded all season, he was going to walk in the summer anyway, and they have already given up on the season and committed to playing their younger players. In other words, Flip could have been had for just about anything. All you had to do was make an offer. I don't even see Mike Wilks on the official Sonics roster on NBA.com (updated 2/26/06), so it looks like they waived him already. So they basically gave away Flip for nothing. And even if they keep/kept Wilks we're talking a guy who's played on 6 teams in 4 years averaging 8 minutes and 2 ppg. That is basically nothing.

So nice justifications, and I'm sure Mitch told himself the same things. Bottom line is Murray could have been had for what we had to offer and that we could have used him.


Wishful thinking. Flip is not in a Laker uniform for the simple reason he was NEVER available to the Lakers. Slice it, dice it any way you want to, but fact is Flip isn't a Laker and there is no credible evidence that he was ever going to be a Laker. There is NO eveidence Seattle offered him up, and there is no credible evidence that the Lakers ever had any interest. Barkley on Mithc all you want, but the fact here is that Flip and the Lakers had about as much of a connection as Pamela Anderson and the Lakers. They knew each others name and had seen each other, but no relationship beyond that ever existed. Trade deadling has passed. Some people just need to let go and deal with the reality that every player in the league they covet isn't going to eventually end up on the roster and that's a Fact.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

Aussiesuede wrote:
Wishful thinking. Flip is not in a Laker uniform for the simple reason he was NEVER available to the Lakers.


That wasn't your original argument.

Your original argument was that the Lakers would rather pay Slava to recuperate then play Flip to play.

Quote:
Slice it, dice it any way you want to, but fact is Flip isn't a Laker and there is no credible evidence that he was ever going to be a Laker.
There is NO eveidence Seattle offered him up, and there is no credible evidence that the Lakers ever had any interest.


Ummm, I think Rambis actually mentioned him on the radio as a guy they were interested in. Check the "Lakers interested in Flip" thread.

There is evidence Seattle actively shopped him around the league.

Lakers interested, plus Seattle shopping him equals a possibility to get him.

Quote:
Barkley on Mithc all you want, but the fact here is that Flip and the Lakers had about as much of a connection as Pamela Anderson and the Lakers. They knew each others name and had seen each other, but no relationship beyond that ever existed.


Except that they publically stated they were interested in him and Seattle publically stated they were shopping him. I'm not sure what part of that logic eludes you.

Quote:
Trade deadling has passed.


I wasn't aware that fact was something any of us were debating.

Quote:
Some people just need to let go and deal with the reality that every player in the league they covet isn't going to eventually end up on the roster and that's a Fact.


No one ever said every player they covet will end up on the Lakers. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Flip was available. He was available for nothing. Mike Wilks is effectively nothing. The Lakers were interested. They dropped the ball. The point isn't whether we get every player we want--the point is the continued pattern of management to fail to do anything to upgrade the roster. A guy who can actually play is more valuable than one who can't--and that is a fact.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject:

Because we have Phil Jackson? Do you really think this team woudl be that much better with Flip as the coach? The only reason his record is that good right now is because Ben Wallace, Billups, Rasheed, Rip, and Prince are on his team.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject:

I just had to chime in since a number of posts that I've made had me practically begging for this team to get Flip. It seems that, despite what has been fed to us before the trade deadline (minor move involving veteran backcourt player), mgt doesn't see the need to acquire veteran backcourt help with a proven scorer's mentality, although not so efficient with his FG%, to help our backcourt. oh well, shoulda woulda coulda, yadayadayada, the list goes on.

Sorry, I just don't buy that Seattle doesn't do trades with LA.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Why didnt we try to acquire Flip again?

[quote="RG73"]
Aussiesuede wrote:
Wishful thinking. Flip is not in a Laker uniform for the simple reason he was NEVER available to the Lakers.


That wasn't your original argument. Your original argument was that the Lakers would rather pay Slava to recuperate then play Flip to play.


My original, and current argument is that Flip isn't, nor was ever going to be a Laker. Here is what I said:

Quote:
The Lakers have a full roster so they could not Isiah Flip unless they waived someone. Currently they are hoping McKie will be able to contribute before the playoffs, so they aren't going to waive him. That just leaves Slava, and obviously when they weighed the pros & cons of Flip, they decided the free cap space was more valuable than his services. Simple as that. Add to this the fact that Seattle doesn't trade with LA as a general rule and there's noone on the Lakers roster who Seattle has a need for in Flips price range so any trade was a non-starter as far as the Lakers are concerned.


The primary argument, as followed up upon with another poster, is that the most basic premise is Seattle does not trade with the Lakers. There is historical evidence to support this fact. I went further to point out that there are current PR problems within the Sonic organisation that further preclude any trades with the Lakers at this point even under the best of circumstances. I pointed out that the Laker front office examined a potential deal re: Flip and decided it was MORE valuable in their opinion to keep the cap space created by letting Slava's contract expire at seasons end than it was to pick up a new player to pay. Flips's contract ends this summer and it's obvious that the Lakers don't see him as a part of their long term plans, so why pay a player who has to first learn the system in less than 30 games and then would only be a marginal contributor?

They made a decision that he wasn't part of their short term plans either and they have a greater value on saving the money than acquiring HIS services. How you take from that that my argument was they'd rather pay Slava than Flip is a stretch. The point is they'd rather not pay Slava AND Flip. That's why I offered that Slava would have to be waived, because I thought it would be redundant to point out that Slava could not be traded to Seattle for Flip. The numbers don't come anywhere close to working and I assume that the avg poster can figure that out without having it spelled out. (I guessed wrong)




Quote:
Except that they publically stated they were interested in him and Seattle publically stated they were shopping him. I'm not sure what part of that logic eludes you.


Look again at history. The Sonics DON't trade with the Lakers unless it is of great benefit to them. You can disagree with that estimation, but history certainly doesn't support any other conclusion. I work in Seattle on tuesday and wednesday every week. I get to read the papers and have a great understanding of the issues at play as to just why the Sonics and Lakers generally don't trade. And I've pointed out that there are CURRENT PR issues at hand that would make any trade benefiting the Lakers a virtual impossibility at this point.



Quote:
A guy who can actually play is more valuable than one who can't--and that is a fact.


No he is not if he doesn't fit into the teams current nor long term plans. The Lakers decided it wasn't worth it to bring Flip on board to watch him struggle to learn the Tri in less than 30 games when they'd have no interest in his services beyond the end of this season. If they thought otherwise they would have made a strong pursuit of him, and there is absolutely no eveidence they did. But bringing him onboard and paying him to learn and getting pretty much nothing in return is actually LESS valuable than simply doing as they've done and steeering clear of the situation. And saying that it was an either or in re: to Slava just doesn't make any sense. It's hard to see how you conjured up such a comparison.

I heard Rambis say they'd love to have any number of players, but that doesn't correlate to an active pursuit. As I originally stated. Flip was a non starter on a number of levels.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject:

:roll: Um because we have Sasha, Von Wafer, and Devin Green.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject:

once again, the typical, "so and so player was never offered, dont blame mitch"

the man can not get the job done. obviously.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject:

The same reason we didn't acquire Derek Anderson, or Mike James last year. I don't know what that reason is (changed their minds about needing veteran backcourt help?), but whatever it is, it's the same reason we didn't acquire Flip. Unless the Aussie is right about Seattle never trading with LA. I've never heard of that before, but if so, that sucks.
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