Where do LeBron and AD respectively rank among the league’s best players?
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Who is the best player in the league right now?
LeBron
63%
 63%  [ 40 ]
Anthony Davis
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Giannis
7%
 7%  [ 5 ]
Harden
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Kawhi
14%
 14%  [ 9 ]
Doncic
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Lilliard
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Durant
4%
 4%  [ 3 ]
Curry
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Other
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 63

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RG73
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Kawhi then Harden.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:22 am    Post subject:

Ranking the top players imo if Durant and Curry return to elite form?

Durant
Kawhi
Giannis
LeBron
Doncic
Curry
Anthony Davis
Harden
Lilliard
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:18 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
Who's the wise guy who voted for Durant?

Or better still, why would the OP even put him on the List when the the question asked includes the word "NOW"?

Which is defined as: "at the present time or moment"

At this present time or moment Durant is sitting in an easy chair somewhere WATCHING the playoffs...

lol


Semantics is fun.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:32 am    Post subject:

Top 5

Lebron
Kawhi
Giannis
AD
KD - Could be Doncic if KD can’t
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject:

my thing with putting AD last is that he pretty clearly can't be the best player on a chip team in today's nba

I think that every other player on the list can (though lillard and harden would need a lot of help)
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:09 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
At the risk of recency bias, Giannis moved down a peg.


You identified the problem with ranking players during the playoffs. There was a time when people claimed that Lebron couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Later, there were people who claimed that Lebron was a choker who needed superstar teammates to bail him out. There are still people who talk about his record in the Finals and who argue that he would never have made the Finals so many times if he played in the West. This was all on display right here in the Lounge for about almost 15 years, and you still see some of it to this day.

So Giannis hasn't won a title yet. Okay. He's 25. He led the league in RPM this year at 10.30 (Lebron was second). He led the league in BPM at 11.5. So people think he doesn't play well in the playoffs? Well, he has averaged 26.7/13.8/5.7. He has scored slightly less, but his playoff metrics are essentially identical to his regular season metrics (BPM of 11.2, etc,).

But his team is underachieving, so people perceive him as a failure. This is the recency effect, but it also reflects the desire of fans to view playoff results as an instant moral referendum on players. It's a team game, but if a superstar's team underachieves, this shows that the superstar is flawed and overrated. This is the flipside of the halo effect.

I'd rate the top players as Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, and Harden, in that order. That's the same order I would have listed before the playoffs. The fact that a couple of those names may have an early exit from the playoffs won't change my ranking.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject:

Lebron is still the best player in the league currently. The athleticism that Lebron James still possesses at age 35 is unbelievable. The dude still jumps high like he's 25. Look at how he harasses and blocks Westbrook.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Where do LeBron and AD respectively rank among the league’s best players?

CandyCanes wrote:
And who is the current best player in the league? For the sake of argument, assume Durant and Curry return to form next season.
Assuming this,

KD
Lebron
Kawhi
Giannis
AD
Doncic
Curry
Harden
Lilliard
Butler

But it's a big assumption that KD returns to form, in fact, I need to see it, so I think Lebron is the best player. All eyes on KD next year, so pressure time. Kawhi could be #1, if he gets another, but that's a big if. Only reason I don't have him on top, given his last year's performance, is that his D doesn't seem quite as fearsome as I remember. I might be wrong about that. One thing for sure, Giannis is not the best player in the league.

AD doesn't have nearly the burden of all the other guys (including KD next year. Steph chilled as #2 in the KD years, but next year, again, he's the #1 guy there). His defense is so dang great, that I have to put him that high even without a ring or being a number one on the team or even proving himself in the playoffs, even to the degree Luka did in just one series, or as Harden has generally done to a degree, but repeatedly so. CP3, Westbrook, and Jokic deserve some thought maybe in this list.

If we get a ring, AD will have to come through several times in big ways in crucial games in the fourth quarter, I believe. If he does do those things (or even if he does and we do not get a ring), lookout next year with all that new playoff confidence. So, he, Harden, Kawhi could all move up in this list this year (only Kawhi potentially going to the top though). Lebron is not moving from the top two slots regardless. His mind is the best weapon in the league. But Kawhi could get up there if he beats us and wins it.

Next year, Doncic seems pretty likely to inch upward. Or leap upward. I don't hear too much about his D which I am guessing is not special.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:48 pm    Post subject:

AD is still getting no love from the refs.
If you want to know his capability, there was this one game early this season where the refs actually gave him all the fts he deserved, which was a lot....and he was unstoppable. That AD is MVP and better than Giannis. He was also just shutting things down both inside and on the perimeter in spectacular fashion. Nobody in the league I can think of does this. And his shot....he's like a big Kobe -lite*....he's got the moves.

Now Jokic is getting all this love...just like Harden...he's out there just shoving everyone out of the way with immunity and playing great. Imagine if they did this for AD.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject:

Not sure how much this poll would change after this game.

But Lebron James Jesus! After the game interview he just spoke to the credit of great players he played with after asked about passing Fisher for playoff wins.

Not sure if any of the players listed on poll can play a game like Lebron did tonight on both ends of the floor.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Lebron is still the best player right now.

We love looking at grass is greener on the other side while forget greatness is in the house.

Not gonna exchange any of the players on the list for Lebron to lead the team right now.

Enjoy while it lasts.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
At the risk of recency bias, Giannis moved down a peg.


You identified the problem with ranking players during the playoffs. There was a time when people claimed that Lebron couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Later, there were people who claimed that Lebron was a choker who needed superstar teammates to bail him out. There are still people who talk about his record in the Finals and who argue that he would never have made the Finals so many times if he played in the West. This was all on display right here in the Lounge for about almost 15 years, and you still see some of it to this day.

So Giannis hasn't won a title yet. Okay. He's 25. He led the league in RPM this year at 10.30 (Lebron was second). He led the league in BPM at 11.5. So people think he doesn't play well in the playoffs? Well, he has averaged 26.7/13.8/5.7. He has scored slightly less, but his playoff metrics are essentially identical to his regular season metrics (BPM of 11.2, etc,).

But his team is underachieving, so people perceive him as a failure. This is the recency effect, but it also reflects the desire of fans to view playoff results as an instant moral referendum on players. It's a team game, but if a superstar's team underachieves, this shows that the superstar is flawed and overrated. This is the flipside of the halo effect.

I'd rate the top players as Giannis, Lebron, Kawhi, and Harden, in that order. That's the same order I would have listed before the playoffs. The fact that a couple of those names may have an early exit from the playoffs won't change my ranking.


But that’s just the nature of the online world. A game ago, people here were railing against Anthony Davis and saying Rondo was the antichrist.

Now those same people are calling them saviors.

When it comes to social media, the recency bias doesn’t just change game to game, it changes quarter to quarter.

None of it means squat. Reputations are forged in the long term. The short term is just for filling time.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:49 pm    Post subject:

Kawhi
Lebron
Luka
Giannis
AD
Harden
Jokic
Booker
Lillard
Butler


Simmons and Tatum just miss the cut for me. Can't rank Durant until i see what he looks like post-injury.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:11 am    Post subject:

In terms of the playoffs:

LeBron and Kawhi are 1a and 1b; Kawhi reminds me a lot of older Kobe, just automatic when he gets to his spots and supremely skilled. Says a lot about LeBron's greatness though that he can exceed Kawhi on any given night at age 35.

Then I think you can't go wrong with AD or Luka fighting for that second place.

Giannis, Harden, Jokic, and Lillard are a notch below them.

Booker hasn't proven anything so it's hard to say.

Jimmy Butler is sort of a wildcard, his impact can sometimes match LeBron or Kawhi but more often he's somewhere on the top end of the third tier (I'd take him over Giannis or Harden in the playoffs for sure).
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:11 am    Post subject:

Tier 1 Stars (in order)

Giannis
Kawhi
LeBron
Luka
AD
KD
Harden
Steph
Dame
Jokic

Tier 2 stars (in order)

Butler
Tatum
Kyrie
Donovan
PG13
Booker
Klay
Westbrook
Embiid
KAT
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject:

It isn’t even clear to me that Westbrook is a net positive at this point. Literally worse impact than MLE level point guard.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
In terms of the playoffs:

LeBron and Kawhi are 1a and 1b; Kawhi reminds me a lot of older Kobe, just automatic when he gets to his spots and supremely skilled. Says a lot about LeBron's greatness though that he can exceed Kawhi on any given night at age 35.

Then I think you can't go wrong with AD or Luka fighting for that second place.

Giannis, Harden, Jokic, and Lillard are a notch below them.

Booker hasn't proven anything so it's hard to say.

Jimmy Butler is sort of a wildcard, his impact can sometimes match LeBron or Kawhi but more often he's somewhere on the top end of the third tier (I'd take him over Giannis or Harden in the playoffs for sure).


Why is Giannis the best player in the regular season, but unable to replicate it in the playoffs? Why don’t teams just pack the paint in the regular season like Miami did?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:54 am    Post subject:

No team with Westbrook will win anything, he doesn’t positively impact his teammates. Reading this thread, if any player in the playoffs is being underrated it is Harden. Top scorer, sets his teammates up, and in the playoffs he is playing good defense.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject:

btw, I don't think it's a hot take that your Top 5 or Top 10 change from regular season to playoffs.

I just think, a list is better off with the Top 10 playoff guys > regular season. The rest of the guys can't take the heat.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
btw, I don't think it's a hot take that your Top 5 or Top 10 change from regular season to playoffs.

I just think, a list is better off with the Top 10 playoff guys > regular season. The rest of the guys can't take the heat.


I agree. There are great players that does not thrived under pressure and then there are few who embrace it and rise over the occasion . Playoff basketball separate the tier of greatness.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:16 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
btw, I don't think it's a hot take that your Top 5 or Top 10 change from regular season to playoffs.

I just think, a list is better off with the Top 10 playoff guys > regular season. The rest of the guys can't take the heat.


I agree. There are great players that does not thrived under pressure and then there are few who embrace it and rise over the occasion . Playoff basketball separate the tier of greatness.


It's a bummer when there are players with clearly elite talent, and they can't or won't, take the heat.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
btw, I don't think it's a hot take that your Top 5 or Top 10 change from regular season to playoffs.

I just think, a list is better off with the Top 10 playoff guys > regular season. The rest of the guys can't take the heat.


I agree. There are great players that does not thrived under pressure and then there are few who embrace it and rise over the occasion . Playoff basketball separate the tier of greatness.


It's a bummer when there are players with clearly elite talent, and they can't or won't, take the heat.


Some say it’s heart but i think it’s more from the neck up. Mentality and being able to make adjustment to figure it out.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:54 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
btw, I don't think it's a hot take that your Top 5 or Top 10 change from regular season to playoffs.

I just think, a list is better off with the Top 10 playoff guys > regular season. The rest of the guys can't take the heat.


I agree. There are great players that does not thrived under pressure and then there are few who embrace it and rise over the occasion . Playoff basketball separate the tier of greatness.


It's a bummer when there are players with clearly elite talent, and they can't or won't, take the heat.


Some say it’s heart but i think it’s more from the neck up. Mentality and being able to make adjustment to figure it out.


100%.

Some guys don't want the smoke.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject:

LeBron is still #1 and I don’t think it’s close. I don’t think Davis quite cracks the top 5 but he isn’t far away.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject:

Ranking Luka Top 5 already isn't something I was expecting.
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