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PiPisKobesByatch Star Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: what is this trend of going away from kobe in the 3rd and losing leads in the 3rd? |
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i've noticed in in a handful of games recently.
not a good thing. |
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Trey Retired Number
Joined: 26 Apr 2001 Posts: 25928 Location: out there
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe is afraid to freeze out his teammates for some reason..
I think he wants so desperately for them to get better.. and he wants them to shoot.. but they just SUCK -- they stand around and and are afraid to shoot..
** noce flop just now by Pierce.. (bleep)... |
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LakerEric Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2002 Posts: 7193 Location: Vegas
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Why is Devean playing sooooo little??? He has been looking great and this team has no depth to play Dev such little minutes!!!!! _________________ Do you believe it now, Trinity? - Morpheous |
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Tarzan008 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 2761
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Kobe seems to be going out of his way to allow others to get into some kind of flow in the first 6 minutes of the 1st and 3rd periods for the most part recently....But at the cost of getting us in holes......
I think it's a good idea up until a point,but not in such a drastic way.....In the past two games before this one versus the Celts he scored "0" in the first 6 minutes.... (And no it was not extra tough "D"),it was by design,who's I dont know.......PJAX?.......Than he scored 14 and 9 in each of those games in the 2nd half of the 1st periods......
I think he has to balance his scoring and strike modes with keeping everyone in the flow and into the game with confidence.....face it,he not only scores like a machine,but he breaks the backs of opponents when he goes off......Plus delivers loads of momentum....
Now he has scored 25 and 26 in the last two games first halfs,while only getting 14 in each of the 2nd halfs......Before that for a few games it was about 8 per 1st half,and then 22 in the 2nd......He seems to be testing out some formula.....I think he should just be in strike mode from minute 1 to minute 48,everything counts the same....As well as pick his spots and keep the other guys in the flow as best he can......
But again,the real problem is team "D"......thats where we need improvement the most......With KOBE our offense will always be alright....
Last edited by Tarzan008 on Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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40ptmachine Starting Rotation
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 Posts: 633
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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is there were only the first, second and fourth quarter = at least 6th spot in the west _________________ After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$
plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:16 am Post subject: |
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I hate to tell ya'll this but the Lakers caught up with kobe on the bench... When kobe left the lead was at least 10. When he came back in it was down to about 4... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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PDX_LAKERFAN Star Player
Joined: 20 Jan 2004 Posts: 2555
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: |
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THE_SHOES wrote: | I hate to tell ya'll this but the Lakers caught up with kobe on the bench... When kobe left the lead was at least 10. When he came back in it was down to about 4... |
And you should've noticed that it was because Smush and Lamar decided to play. There's no excuse for watching the game as if you're a fan. We pay the money to watch them play and it still amazes me that they can only stay focused for a quarter or two. That's the difference between good teams and bad ones, they just don't decide to play when the game is jeopardy. This is a 48 min game and these guys get paid well to do it. No excuse for only playing part of it... up until that point, Delonte West was killing us but Smush finally put his head into the game and got on him. This mental lapse is not Kobe's fault nor should he be blamed for their ineptness. |
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angel Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 14226 Location: city of angels
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: |
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In the triangle, players need to be willing to take shots in the flow of the offense. Teams are afraid Kobe will explode in the third quarter. Kobe seems intent on involving the rest of his team. Sometimes he passes up good shots in favor of the extra pass. It seems like he waits instead of doing what comes naturally within the flow of the offense. _________________ "Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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PDX_LAKERFAN wrote: | THE_SHOES wrote: | I hate to tell ya'll this but the Lakers caught up with kobe on the bench... When kobe left the lead was at least 10. When he came back in it was down to about 4... |
And you should've noticed that it was because Smush and Lamar decided to play. There's no excuse for watching the game as if you're a fan. We pay the money to watch them play and it still amazes me that they can only stay focused for a quarter or two. That's the difference between good teams and bad ones, they just don't decide to play when the game is jeopardy. This is a 48 min game and these guys get paid well to do it. No excuse for only playing part of it... up until that point, Delonte West was killing us but Smush finally put his head into the game and got on him. This mental lapse is not Kobe's fault nor should he be blamed for their ineptness. |
No argument from me on that. I have no idea what the hell was up with that. I do believe that Jax sat the starters butts for a long time because of that assing around. I did see LO however calling for the ball in the high post on a few occassions and got no attention. Still he should have found a way to get involved more... I don't know what to tell you about Smush. He looked like a brand new man after Jax benched him in favor of Sasha who I thought was working wwwwaaayy harder than Smush when he came in.
I just don't know... For the first time this season though, I was worried with what I saw... NO game faces and, no intensity... That is a red flag...
They seemed to get excited when they closed but, why did they wait?
That really is worrysome. They could have won and, won easily from what we seen in the 4th... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: |
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angel wrote: | In the triangle, players need to be willing to take shots in the flow of the offense. Teams are afraid Kobe will explode in the third quarter. Kobe seems intent on involving the rest of his team. Sometimes he passes up good shots in favor of the extra pass. It seems like he waits instead of doing what comes naturally within the flow of the offense. |
Thats because Kobe knows that the rest have to be brought up to speed and, soon...
The time is running out. Just getting to the playoffs with nobody but, him ready ain't going to get it done... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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tw-lakbfan Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2001 Posts: 16636
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Yes, that's the trend, yet imo that's not the main problem.
We lost focus and played no defense in the 3rd qtrs the last few games. You can see that from the turnovers by Smush, Odom or layups allowed by Kwame, Mihm. |
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PiPisKobesByatch Star Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
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maybe we should start turiaf in the 3rd because the lakers always look so listless out of halftime.. at least he brings some energy. |
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re4ee Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 12237
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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THE_SHOES wrote: | I hate to tell ya'll this but the Lakers caught up with kobe on the bench... When kobe left the lead was at least 10. When he came back in it was down to about 4... | I guess a lot of these LG posters, only want to focus on ONE game at a time, and to refuse to look forward. I think that Phil is trying to put pressure on LO, Smush, Cook and Kwame, by making them play without Kobe for significant minutes, while trying to instill confidence in them by putting the game in their hands.
99 times out of 100, Kobe would have found a way to beat the Celts, but came up short, but, the other Lakers really are going to have to learn to pick it up in crucial situations WITHOUT haveing Kobe on the floor to bail them out.
I really think Phil is confident that the Lakers can hold that 8th seed, and is willing to let these players lose just to make sure they have faced adversity BEFORE the playoffs. Honestly, the Lakers have no realistic chance to get any higher than the 5th seed, no real chance to get home court in ANY round, so what does it matter, in the long haul, an additional win/loss, here and there. PLUS, the3 weaker the Lakers look heading into post-season, the more likely a 1st and/or2nd round team will be looking past the Lakers to their next round.
Chill, y'all, the end-season strategies will not become clear until near the end of the regular season. |
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Panthas Star Player
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 Posts: 1262
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Kobe tends to blow us into a huge lead by tremendous shooting in the first half. He then tries to get the team in a rythum, but in all his trying he gets cooled down and when the fourth hits he tring to find his own shot. Its no wonder he hits so many clutch shots its because he starts to re-find his shot at that time. _________________ Panthas |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Like somebody else pointed out though. The Lakers aren't having problems scoring points as much as they are giving up points...
What if the Lakers average submission was averaging around 90pts?
The no.3 seed at worse with eeeeeeeeeaaaaaaasssssssssseeee! _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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PiPisKobesByatch Star Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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at the time this thread was made, the lakers had scored 9 points about 6-7 minutes into the quarter.. so not only were they not defending, but not scoring either.
that's why they went down 15 in a matter of minutes against the clippers.. kobe deferring, nobody scoring, then compounding it by giving up easy buckets off missed shots.
so it's not just a matter of playing defense ONLY. you still have to put points up on the board as well.
as mentioned before, kobe's scoring bursts help the team defensively, because when guys like smush and lamar are bricking outside jumpshots and turning the ball over.. it leads to easy transition buckets for the opposition. good offense means the other team has to take the ball out of bounds, while the lakers can get into a halfcourt defensive set.. whereas bad offense leads to easy points.
so bad offense also leads to bad defense.. it's synergistic. |
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Laker Lurker Star Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2002 Posts: 7652
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
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real bad coaching- not because Kobe was sitting but because Lakers have no clue what to do after taking the court right after halftime. This has happened a lot more than once to attribute the phenomena to Kobe sitting. |
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Supa Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 2210
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Lamar and Smush got benched cause they were giving us nothing in the 3rd. Turiaf came in a gave us some inspired play, what the team needed. They cut a 14 point lead down to 9. I think watching Turiaf sparked something in Lamar and Smush because they finally started playing and cut the lead to 4 in the 4th before Kobe came back in.
Unfortunately these guys don't change. With Kwame, Smush, and Lamar you can expect to see this type of disappointing effort again. Kobe may have to get back into that January form for us to win games. Phil doesn't like it, and wants Kobe to play more team oriented, but they may miss the playoffs that way. |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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NO matter what the Kobe "lone ranger" days have to end for awhile. This team has to take at least another step forward and, they only have a couple of months to do so. If Smush and, Lamar have to brick as you put it PIp then let em brick it now and, get it out of there system. Kobe does'nt need to go into the playoffs with a team of spectators. The time is now to get the (bleep) in sync. The teams below them are in worse shape so, they aren't the problem. No need to worry about them. The Lakers need to get out of that 8th spot or face the Spurs in the first round. So the sooner they get tight the better. Kobe is doing the right thing. I knew he was that smart... Work em, dog em, yell at em, but, don't let em think for a moment that Kobe is going to carry there asses for the rest of this season...
Lo and Smush proved in the 4th quarter that Kobe needs to cuss both of them out on occassion. They were both brilliant while Kobe was on the bench. That shows that they are waiting on kobes ques way to much. They can play. Devean? NO problem. Cookie? You can't stop him from shooting and, I like how Kobe actually looks for him nowdays.
Bryant has arrived as a team leader that is leading and teaching. I'm lovin it... _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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kobester Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 1247
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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THE_SHOES wrote: | I hate to tell ya'll this but the Lakers caught up with kobe on the bench... When kobe left the lead was at least 10. When he came back in it was down to about 4... |
I hate to tell you this but paul pierce were on the bench too when kobe was sitting. _________________ "I think I've been forgotten about a little bit as far as what I can do on the basketball court,'' the Los Angeles Lakers star guard said, "People forget." |
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PiPisKobesByatch Star Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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i like how people think that the lakers need to get everybody involved in order to suceed in the playoffs, when in fact, in doing so.. they will probably MISS the playoffs altogether.
sort of a catch 22.
screw the teammates.. these guys are all going to get shipped out by summertime, so there's no point wasting another season of close games because we're trying to "get them involved."
if lakers management made a committment to keep this core together for the next 5 years, then i can understand getting them involved and what not.. but this is merely a temporary team until better talent can be brought in.. so use kobe to win games and at least make the playoffs, rather than try to get these morons involved and end up losing in the process.
this is like 2/3 of the way into the season and the laker roleplayers have not improved AT ALL since game 1. what makes you think that from now until the playoffs, they will simply "get it"? They won't. |
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re4ee Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 12237
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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THE_SHOES wrote: | NO matter what the Kobe "lone ranger" days have to end for awhile. This team has to take at least another step forward and, they only have a couple of months to do so. If Smush and, Lamar have to brick as you put it PIp then let em brick it now and, get it out of there system. Kobe does'nt need to go into the playoffs with a team of spectators. The time is now to get the (bleep) in sync. The teams below them are in worse shape so, they aren't the problem. No need to worry about them. The Lakers need to get out of that 8th spot or face the Spurs in the first round. So the sooner they get tight the better. Kobe is doing the right thing. I knew he was that smart... Work em, dog em, yell at em, but, don't let em think for a moment that Kobe is going to carry there asses for the rest of this season...
Lo and Smush proved in the 4th quarter that Kobe needs to cuss both of them out on occassion. They were both brilliant while Kobe was on the bench. That shows that they are waiting on kobes ques way to much. They can play. Devean? NO problem. Cookie? You can't stop him from shooting and, I like how Kobe actually looks for him nowdays.
Bryant has arrived as a team leader that is leading and teaching. I'm lovin it... | Keep preaching it SHOES, I happen to, not only agree with you, but agree with the coaching staff and this action as well. These other starters and first line bench just HAVE to learn to play without using the Kobe crutch, if not the whole season is pointless. They don't ALL have to click 100 % immediately, but some of them better start to bring it. As painfull as losing is, the eye has to be further down the road. |
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re4ee Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2005 Posts: 12237
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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PiPisKobesByatch wrote: | i like how people think that the lakers need to get everybody involved in order to suceed in the playoffs, when in fact, in doing so.. they will probably MISS the playoffs altogether.
sort of a catch 22.
screw the teammates.. these guys are all going to get shipped out by summertime, so there's no point wasting another season of close games because we're trying to "get them involved."
if lakers management made a committment to keep this core together for the next 5 years, then i can understand getting them involved and what not.. but this is merely a temporary team until better talent can be brought in.. so use kobe to win games and at least make the playoffs, rather than try to get these morons involved and end up losing in the process.
this is like 2/3 of the way into the season and the laker roleplayers have not improved AT ALL since game 1. what makes you think that from now until the playoffs, they will simply "get it"? They won't. | If so, so be it. What's the point of being ousted in the first round. Call it a "head start" on next season's training camp, if you must, but really, it's the only sensible path forward, at this point! |
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PiPisKobesByatch Star Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 8038
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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the point is to win. at any costs.
would you be happier inside if the lakers missed the playoffs, but did it by having 30% shooting games because they were playing team ball?
screw that. just get it done. if people aren't going to step up, then move out the way and let people step in front of them and don't complain about it.
la la la we should hold hands and sing cumbaya as we play perfect, harmonious team basketball.. you people make me sick. WIN OR GO HOME. |
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THE_SHOES Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 29556 Location: Taiwan
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Thats so ridiculous Pip. You honestly think that Bryant can beat entire teams by his self night in and night out? The Lakers have to work with what they've got to achieve anything and, the Kobe vs San Antonio, Dallas, Cleveland series is not going to result in that fantasy you're talking about either.
That is what's wrong with this team now. _________________ "According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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