We are probably better off Going Small Moving Forward
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:26 am    Post subject: We are probably better off Going Small Moving Forward

I think Markieff can body up most centers in today's NBA (except Embiid?) and switch onto some of the bigger wings. On offense, it creates more space for AD and Lebron to work, which is pretty obvious. I'll go as far as to say that going into next season, keeping Markieff is a MUST even if it means giving him half to all of our MLE (will it be in the $10m range? someone keep me honest pls).

For the sake of argument, lets say we meet the Clippers and Celtics in the next two rounds.

For the Clippers, ask yourself this: Do we want AD starting off on Kawhi, while Javale defends Zubac? Or do we want Markieff defending Kawhi while AD defends Zubac? I prefer the latter because it keeps AD out of foul trouble and Zubac will have his hands full with AD on the other end. Our ability to switch onto the bigger wings of the Clippers and cover the 3 point line is also much improved.

For the Celtics, if we go big, I think we're screwed! I would actually go as far as starting Kuzma in place of Markieff if it were up to me. I think he gives us our best chance at guarding Tatum. What we saw in the regular season in LA was an indicator of that IMO. Plus you don't want AD or Lebron having to start the game chasing around the Celtics wing players. If we start Javale against the Celtics, Stevens is smart enough to allow Theiss to guard AD and Tatum/Brown to guard Javale, putting us at a severe disadvantage IMO. As a side note, I strongly believe Nick Nurse's insistence on playing Gasol cost them the series, particularly in game 7 where Gasol was by far a team worst -19 in a game that really came down to a final possession.

All that said, even if we end up getting the Nuggets and Heat, I would still sit Javale and go small. I'm hoping this series with the Rockets will be an eye opener for Frank Vogel. Curious to get your thoughts.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:37 am    Post subject:

No reason to go small full time. Maybe we should do it more, especially with Morris at the 5, but at this point it should be used as more of a secret weapon than something to do full time. The strength of the way this team is built is that it's versatile.

That said, I would expect to see more small ball with Morris at the 5 against the Clippers since it worked pretty well against them in that March win. He held Montrezl in check during the second half of that game. Dwight didn't even play.
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:43 am    Post subject:

Just a follow up note and getting a bit ahead of myself, my ideal 2020-2021 roster:

C - Markieff Morris, McGee, Cousins
F - AD, Jeff Green, D Cacok
F - Lebron, Kuzma, 1st round pick
G - D Green, KCP, THT
G - Bradley, Caruso, Rondo

I'll take a chance on Cousins and keep him over Dwight. Though he's coming off a tough injury, he's still much younger and has had more than enough time to get his body right. By mid-season next year, I am willing to bet he's about 70-80% of the original Boogie Cousins we remember. To get that at a bargain, probably the vet min will be huge IMO.

I really like what I'm seeing from Jeff Green in this Houston series and I'm surprised Utah let him go. He could have been the difference in their series against the Nuggets.

If I could trade D Green, Kuzma and the 1st round pick for say Oladipo, I probably would (as much as I like what I'm seeing from Kuz). Otherwise I guess its another year of living and fuming about Danny Green's streakiness.

I am very high on D Cacok and I hope we don't let him walk for nothing. Rebounding translates and his per 36 rebounding numbers are insane. To me all he needs is a decent jumpshot, which I'm not sure whether he has.With his athleticism and toughness along with guidance from our coaching staff, he should be able to switch onto smaller players on the defensive end.

Find more playing time during the reg season for THT's development. At 19, I think he's a keeper.

I am assuming most of our guys don't opt out given that the market is not looking favorable this off-season but who knows.
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:49 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
No reason to go small full time. Maybe we should do it more, especially with Morris at the 5, but at this point it should be used as more of a secret weapon than something to do full time. The strength of the way this team is built is that it's versatile.

That said, I would expect to see more small ball with Morris at the 5 against the Clippers since it worked pretty well against them in that March win. He held Montrezl in check during the second half of that game. Dwight didn't even play.


Not saying we should never play our bigs again, lol. They will be needed depending on matchups. I personally prefer Dwight's physicality especially against bigs who can't shoot (Montrez, Zubac). However to your point, more Markieff at the 5 is better for all of us including the players.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: We are probably better off Going Small Moving Forward

Zubolo wrote:
We are probably better off going small moving forward



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:32 am    Post subject:

It always depends on the matchup in the playoffs.

The Raptors are a pretty big teams so a center at all times will be needed since they have Gasol starting with Ibaka backing him up. Maybe not twin towers but going twin towers makes sense.

With Heat Clips and Celts, 'll leave it up to Frank. I'm in favor of getting more minutes to our defenders who can switch and guard the three but having AD or LBJ on the court at all times is the most important part.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:59 am    Post subject:

Agreed. Like Bron said, they not small at all:

AD 6'11"
Kief 6'10"
Bron 6'9"
DG 6'6"
KCP 6'5"

That's a lot of length, speed, agility, athleticism and spacing. This lineup matches up better with the Clippers too.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:00 am    Post subject:

Not full time but y’all think our small ball is better than the presumed 2nd best small ball Rox (GS death lineup is the bar)? I do, having AD as the stretch big is >>> short PJ/Draymond
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: We are probably better off Going Small Moving Forward

Big Game James wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
We are probably better off going small moving forward




I guess you just read the title of the thread and nothing else
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:43 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
It always depends on the matchup in the playoffs.

The Raptors are a pretty big teams so a center at all times will be needed since they have Gasol starting with Ibaka backing him up. Maybe not twin towers but going twin towers makes sense.

With Heat Clips and Celts, 'll leave it up to Frank. I'm in favor of getting more minutes to our defenders who can switch and guard the three but having AD or LBJ on the court at all times is the most important part.


I strongly think starting Gasol cost the Raptors against Boston, particularly in game 7. They had momentum in the second quarter up 40-33 and had just been on a run after Gasol went to bench in the first (note that they always lost the first quarter, where Gasol featured heavily). The Celts went on a 17-4 run when Gasol checked back in during the 2nd quarter. Gasol was a game worst -19. In a game that came down to a final possession, that was the difference IMO.

Nothing personal against Gasol but in today's NBA if you don't have a big like Jokic for example who can at least punish the opponent for going small, then that big become a rather 'big' liability.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:46 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
No reason to go small full time. Maybe we should do it more, especially with Morris at the 5, but at this point it should be used as more of a secret weapon than something to do full time. The strength of the way this team is built is that it's versatile.

That said, I would expect to see more small ball with Morris at the 5 against the Clippers since it worked pretty well against them in that March win. He held Montrezl in check during the second half of that game. Dwight didn't even play.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:47 am    Post subject:

Texas_Pete wrote:
Agreed. Like Bron said, they not small at all:

AD 6'11"
Kief 6'10"
Bron 6'9"
DG 6'6"
KCP 6'5"

That's a lot of length, speed, agility, athleticism and spacing. This lineup matches up better with the Clippers too.


Absolutely! Well said.
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Not full time but y’all think our small ball is better than the presumed 2nd best small ball Rox (GS death lineup is the bar)? I do, having AD as the stretch big is >>> short PJ/Draymond


I agree not full time but no, I don't think our small ball lineup beats that of GS with KD. That was another monster on its own. We would need another all-star caliber guard to close that gap.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:14 am    Post subject:

I doubt it would happen. Too many reasons to not go small. But it’s good to know we have that in our bag if we need it.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:45 am    Post subject:

Ehhh. I'm not sure. I like having Morris guard his twin next round. If those 2 can just play each other even, that's good for us.
But at the same time, I think McGee and Dwight could help us lock down the paint against Kawhi and PG13 drives.
I'd probably start McGee, and then try to match Morris v. Morris deeper in rotations and of course close halfs with AD at the 5 like we've done all year.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:50 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Ehhh. I'm not sure. I like having Morris guard his twin next round. If those 2 can just play each other even, that's good for us.
But at the same time, I think McGee and Dwight could help us lock down the paint against Kawhi and PG13 drives.
I'd probably start McGee, and then try to match Morris v. Morris deeper in rotations and of course close halfs with AD at the 5 like we've done all year.


We gonna need Dwight and McGee to soften up Montrezl and Zubac
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:51 am    Post subject:

It's all about the matchups
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ehhh. I'm not sure. I like having Morris guard his twin next round. If those 2 can just play each other even, that's good for us.
But at the same time, I think McGee and Dwight could help us lock down the paint against Kawhi and PG13 drives.
I'd probably start McGee, and then try to match Morris v. Morris deeper in rotations and of course close halfs with AD at the 5 like we've done all year.


We gonna need Dwight and McGee to soften up Montrezl and Zubac

If Zubac was any softer he'd be that cheap toilet paper that breaks easily.
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defense
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject:

Texas_Pete wrote:
Agreed. Like Bron said, they not small at all:

AD 6'11"
Kief 6'10"
Bron 6'9"
DG 6'6"
KCP 6'5"

That's a lot of length, speed, agility, athleticism and spacing. This lineup matches up better with the Clippers too.


If we're being real those numbers are more like

6'10
6'9
6'8
6'6
6'4

But i can't say I'm fan of completely going away from what has been winning for us all season long. If Vogel does that and we lose, that may be worthy of a firing. Do what we've done all season and adjust when necessary.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:10 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
governator wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ehhh. I'm not sure. I like having Morris guard his twin next round. If those 2 can just play each other even, that's good for us.
But at the same time, I think McGee and Dwight could help us lock down the paint against Kawhi and PG13 drives.
I'd probably start McGee, and then try to match Morris v. Morris deeper in rotations and of course close halfs with AD at the 5 like we've done all year.


We gonna need Dwight and McGee to soften up Montrezl and Zubac

If Zubac was any softer he'd be that cheap toilet paper that breaks easily.

Come on.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
Just a follow up note and getting a bit ahead of myself, my ideal 2020-2021 roster:

C - Markieff Morris, McGee, Cousins
F - AD, Jeff Green, D Cacok
F - Lebron, Kuzma, 1st round pick
G - D Green, KCP, THT
G - Bradley, Caruso, Rondo

I'll take a chance on Cousins and keep him over Dwight. Though he's coming off a tough injury, he's still much younger and has had more than enough time to get his body right. By mid-season next year, I am willing to bet he's about 70-80% of the original Boogie Cousins we remember. To get that at a bargain, probably the vet min will be huge IMO.

I really like what I'm seeing from Jeff Green in this Houston series and I'm surprised Utah let him go. He could have been the difference in their series against the Nuggets.

If I could trade D Green, Kuzma and the 1st round pick for say Oladipo, I probably would (as much as I like what I'm seeing from Kuz). Otherwise I guess its another year of living and fuming about Danny Green's streakiness.

I am very high on D Cacok and I hope we don't let him walk for nothing. Rebounding translates and his per 36 rebounding numbers are insane. To me all he needs is a decent jumpshot, which I'm not sure whether he has.With his athleticism and toughness along with guidance from our coaching staff, he should be able to switch onto smaller players on the defensive end.

Find more playing time during the reg season for THT's development. At 19, I think he's a keeper.

I am assuming most of our guys don't opt out given that the market is not looking favorable this off-season but who knows.


I've been wanting us to grab Jeff Green for a while now. He's had some excellent playoff games in recent years
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:14 am    Post subject:

Dependent on matchups. Howard and McGee could give valuable minutes against Denver. We’re likely better served playing our version of small ball against the C’s and Celtics and Heat.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:40 am    Post subject:

I actually mentioned weeks ago that the Lakers should try starting Morris at the 5. With that being said, I think our bigs were key to our success this season. I think we will stay with the "at least one shot blocker at all times" on the floor and "at least LBJ or Rondo in there at all times" philosophy. A big man rotation that could look something like this:

PF-Davis (35 minutes) McGee (13 minutes)

C-Cousins (24 minutes) Morris (24 minutes)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
governator wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Ehhh. I'm not sure. I like having Morris guard his twin next round. If those 2 can just play each other even, that's good for us.
But at the same time, I think McGee and Dwight could help us lock down the paint against Kawhi and PG13 drives.
I'd probably start McGee, and then try to match Morris v. Morris deeper in rotations and of course close halfs with AD at the 5 like we've done all year.


We gonna need Dwight and McGee to soften up Montrezl and Zubac

If Zubac was any softer he'd be that cheap toilet paper that breaks easily.


Haven't you heard? Zu's prime Shaq! Can't believe we lost him boo hoo. Not.
However, I was surprised he had the best net rtg during the playoffs for anyone over 15 mins. Pretty impressive. Hopefully doc gives him more minutes to fail.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:21 pm    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
It's all about the matchups


this
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