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BILBJH Star Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2020 Posts: 5105
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:50 am Post subject: |
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BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
I love Lonzo.
But even I know you shouldn't compare a skill of his with Kobe's.
Side: don't you gotta compare efg and ts based on league average of the time especially when comparing from different eras?
I do believe he still has to work on how he takes off for layups. And how to use his body to shield defenders at the rim as well. I think these are things he can fix. He just needs to get consistent with his shot in general (ft and 3s) and he'll be set. He's got the instincts, smarts and vision to do well in the league if he improves on the above. _________________ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ #18!!! |
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anth2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 12070 Location: Pasadena, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Still canโt believe the Lonzo love here. Wow. He seems to have melted many hearts with his play. โค๏ธโค๏ธโค๏ธ |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: |
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BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
I think you just explained why evaluating shooters by eFG% alone is useless. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you betterโ
Last edited by kikanga on Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:06 am Post subject: |
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anth2000 wrote: | Still canโt believe the Lonzo love here. Wow. He seems to have melted many hearts with his play. โค๏ธโค๏ธโค๏ธ |
Reminds me of Frank Ntilikina and Knicks fans. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you betterโ |
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StoicChalice392 Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 1724 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:29 am Post subject: |
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So does this mean no more Lavar? |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Regardless, doubt it happens. Klutch has non-Laker players too (i.e. Montrezz).
Zo is about to enter into RFA and he wants tough representation for his extension or trade. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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hoopschick29 Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jul 2004 Posts: 12898 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:44 am Post subject: |
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BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
Bruuuhhh... _________________ So glad we gave you your flowers while you were here, Kobe. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:46 am Post subject: |
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epic_ wrote: | BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
I love Lonzo.
But even I know you shouldn't compare a skill of his with Kobe's.
Side: don't you gotta compare efg and ts based on league average of the time especially when comparing from different eras?
I do believe he still has to work on how he takes off for layups. And how to use his body to shield defenders at the rim as well. I think these are things he can fix. He just needs to get consistent with his shot in general (ft and 3s) and he'll be set. He's got the instincts, smarts and vision to do well in the league if he improves on the above. |
TS% league average has gone up a few percentage points since then.
But everyone being focused on scoring when the guy is a positive impact on the floor even without it? I don't get it.
Wait til the shooting comes around. Dude changed his form and it takes 2-4 years to get good results. He's in year 1 with proven 3pt results, but people mad/complain/whatever. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | epic_ wrote: | BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
I love Lonzo.
But even I know you shouldn't compare a skill of his with Kobe's.
Side: don't you gotta compare efg and ts based on league average of the time especially when comparing from different eras?
I do believe he still has to work on how he takes off for layups. And how to use his body to shield defenders at the rim as well. I think these are things he can fix. He just needs to get consistent with his shot in general (ft and 3s) and he'll be set. He's got the instincts, smarts and vision to do well in the league if he improves on the above. |
TS% league average has gone up a few percentage points since then.
But everyone being focused on scoring when the guy is a positive impact on the floor even without it? I don't get it.
Wait til the shooting comes around. Dude changed his form and it takes 2-4 years to get good results. He's in year 1 with proven 3pt results, but people mad/complain/whatever. |
I still believe in him. But trading for him would be tough, and mess with the "2021" plan. Plus he would have to be re-signed so your big piece along with AD/LBJ would essentially be Lonzo.
I don't see it happening but I'm not gonna hate it if it miraculously did. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I still believe in him. But trading for him would be tough, and mess with the "2021" plan. Plus he would have to be re-signed so your big piece along with AD/LBJ would essentially be Lonzo.
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I agree. I just think, dude changed agencies for better mentorship, changed his jumpshot, already has results in year 1, has positive impact on a losing team, and people are like, "nah, he had his shot."
But I guess I don't give up on early age college kids, because that's usually when they have to make mistakes/grow. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | epic_ wrote: | BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
I love Lonzo.
But even I know you shouldn't compare a skill of his with Kobe's.
Side: don't you gotta compare efg and ts based on league average of the time especially when comparing from different eras?
I do believe he still has to work on how he takes off for layups. And how to use his body to shield defenders at the rim as well. I think these are things he can fix. He just needs to get consistent with his shot in general (ft and 3s) and he'll be set. He's got the instincts, smarts and vision to do well in the league if he improves on the above. |
TS% league average has gone up a few percentage points since then.
But everyone being focused on scoring when the guy is a positive impact on the floor even without it? I don't get it.
Wait til the shooting comes around. Dude changed his form and it takes 2-4 years to get good results. He's in year 1 with proven 3pt results, but people mad/complain/whatever. |
Yep.
I think some people expect players to all fit a mold.
They want PGs to be like Dame or Steph these days (or some variation of it). Guys who handle and get buckets? Or some specific skill set. If a guard excels at a skill set they don't seem to value, their minds explode. _________________ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ #18!!! |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8839
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Zo's poor outside shooting and off court distraction aside (and those are big red flags), his on court demeanor is also not what you want as a point guard. Skills can be developed along the way, but mentality often stuck with you the entire career. Zo just don't seems care about basketball even when he plays. |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:58 am Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Zo's poor outside shooting and off court distraction aside (and those are big red flags), his on court demeanor is also not what you want as a point guard. Skills can be developed along the way, but mentality often stuck with you the entire career. Zo just don't seems care about basketball even when he plays. |
Don't you love it when guys who don't care about bball play defense? Imagine if he cared! _________________ ๐๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ #18!!! |
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cital Star Player
Joined: 25 May 2002 Posts: 3647
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:04 am Post subject: |
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He will be a RFA first, so it isn't going to happen for a while if at all... |
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PHILosophize Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2012 Posts: 10758
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: |
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ugh _________________ one dog goes that way the other dog goes the other way |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:15 am Post subject: |
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cital wrote: | He will be a RFA first, so it isn't going to happen for a while if at all... |
Yeah, our only chance is if he signs a QO going into his 5th year. The Pels would have traded him by then. 2022 is the earliest we can start thinking about Zo. _________________ โYou have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.โ - Kobe Bryant |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure his shooting will come around. That FT% doesn't inspire confidence. I've heard his release is good despite of his shot motion though. So maybe I'm wrong. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you betterโ |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Zo's poor outside shooting and off court distraction aside (and those are big red flags), his on court demeanor is also not what you want as a point guard. Skills can be developed along the way, but mentality often stuck with you the entire career. Zo just don't seems care about basketball even when he plays. |
He's not a point guard. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:23 am Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | I'm not sure his shooting will come around. That FT% doesn't inspire confidence. I've heard his release is good despite of his shot motion though. So maybe I'm wrong. |
He's a rhythm shooter that does a poor job developing rhythm at the FT line.
So, I'm not surprised.
But you can't fake his shooting at UCLA when they actually had an organized offense. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8839
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:28 am Post subject: |
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epic_ wrote: | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Zo's poor outside shooting and off court distraction aside (and those are big red flags), his on court demeanor is also not what you want as a point guard. Skills can be developed along the way, but mentality often stuck with you the entire career. Zo just don't seems care about basketball even when he plays. |
Don't you love it when guys who don't care about bball play defense? Imagine if he cared! |
this thing about Zo plays good defense often puzzle me. good defense != steals by gambling on defense, and blocked shots at the expense of piling up fouls. how's Zo's man 2 man defense? can he stay in front of his man constantly without fouling and gambling? |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:32 am Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | epic_ wrote: | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Zo's poor outside shooting and off court distraction aside (and those are big red flags), his on court demeanor is also not what you want as a point guard. Skills can be developed along the way, but mentality often stuck with you the entire career. Zo just don't seems care about basketball even when he plays. |
Don't you love it when guys who don't care about bball play defense? Imagine if he cared! |
this thing about Zo plays good defense often puzzle me. good defense != steals by gambling on defense, and blocked shots at the expense of piling up fouls. how's Zo's man 2 man defense? can he stay in front of his man constantly without fouling and gambling? |
Didn't we see this enough as a Laker? Sure he was inconsistent but certainly capable.
It's incredibly difficult just to get 0 DBPM as a rookie especially when defending the most difficult position, point guard.
Lonzo was +1.3. I haven't seen that level of defense since, but he brought back then. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans.
Last edited by Mike@LG on Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39320
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | epic_ wrote: | BILBJH wrote: | Fisher finished at the rim at 45% career average
Zo shot 61% at the rim last season
Kobe shot 63% at the rim career average (yes, I know people guarded him way more intensely than Zo)
Kobe career eFG is 48%
Zo's career eFG is 48%
Obviously Zo is way less skilled than Kobe scoring... I only point this out to say he's not as terrible as people think and he's getting better.
If he could improve his FT shooting like Ingram he'd be a good investment |
I love Lonzo.
But even I know you shouldn't compare a skill of his with Kobe's.
Side: don't you gotta compare efg and ts based on league average of the time especially when comparing from different eras?
I do believe he still has to work on how he takes off for layups. And how to use his body to shield defenders at the rim as well. I think these are things he can fix. He just needs to get consistent with his shot in general (ft and 3s) and he'll be set. He's got the instincts, smarts and vision to do well in the league if he improves on the above. |
TS% league average has gone up a few percentage points since then.
But everyone being focused on scoring when the guy is a positive impact on the floor even without it? I don't get it.
Wait til the shooting comes around. Dude changed his form and it takes 2-4 years to get good results. He's in year 1 with proven 3pt results, but people mad/complain/whatever. |
He is a positive on the floor no doubt.
However he has some glaring deficiencies, one of which seems mental.
Late in the 4th I think he is a bit of liability.
How much are you willing to pay for someone like him? Its a huge risk. |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I don't have a synergy stats subscription. But a Pelicans fan who does said Lonzo is 15th percentile at the rim in half court, shooting 47%.
I do have to say my eyeball test confirms that. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you betterโ
Last edited by kikanga on Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39320
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Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: |
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SGV-Laker fan wrote: | epic_ wrote: | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | Zo's poor outside shooting and off court distraction aside (and those are big red flags), his on court demeanor is also not what you want as a point guard. Skills can be developed along the way, but mentality often stuck with you the entire career. Zo just don't seems care about basketball even when he plays. |
Don't you love it when guys who don't care about bball play defense? Imagine if he cared! |
this thing about Zo plays good defense often puzzle me. good defense != steals by gambling on defense, and blocked shots at the expense of piling up fouls. how's Zo's man 2 man defense? can he stay in front of his man constantly without fouling and gambling? |
When he was with us he was actually a very good man defender. I don't know what he has looked like with NO. |
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