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THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| PDX_LAKERFAN wrote: | I don't think this game shows him being overated..
Maybe I'm just looking thru my purple colored glasses but nobody could stop Pierce tonight.. All defenders have nights when they get lit up.. didn't Kobe drop 36 with ease vs Artest?.
Last night Kobe took on the challenge and the only mistake he made was that foul at the end which IMO was a call that the refs decided to make but usually in tight games they don't make that call. Kobe's defense in the end denying Pierce the ball and stripping him down low was huge..
That being said, Kobe's overatedness comes when he has a bum to guard like Bowen and decides that he isn't worth guarding because he isn't what you would call a great scorer. We've all seen Kobe play defense on T-Mac and others.. when this guy puts his mind to it.. he's no doubt one of the games best defenders. |
Actually, if history has taught us anything is that no matter how slight or marginal a play is the refs always make that call against the Lakers and, rarely for the Lakers especially in the last seconds of a game...
That is one reason with LO sitting under the hoop I don't believe that if that pass would have went to him that he would have either (a) made the shot or (b) got hacked and, have that ignored by the officials and, forevever beaten by the fans and, media...
It just doesn't matter in the final seconds we won't get (bleep) but an ass whoopin. The Lakers have to win these games before that point in the game is all there is to it...
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"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
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cr8zy0
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 820
Location: Los Angeles & Philadelphia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
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basically kobe just has to want to play defense. he can when he wants to. lately he has been in gamble mode 90% of the time and has only played defense for like 5 min stretches. 90% of the time he gambles the other team scores. he hurts us so much when he goes for stats/steals.
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kobekillinu2nite
Star Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Posts: 1774
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| PDX_LAKERFAN wrote: | I don't think this game shows him being overated..
Maybe I'm just looking thru my purple colored glasses but nobody could stop Pierce tonight.. All defenders have nights when they get lit up.. didn't Kobe drop 36 with ease vs Artest?.
Last night Kobe took on the challenge and the only mistake he made was that foul at the end which IMO was a call that the refs decided to make but usually in tight games they don't make that call. Kobe's defense in the end denying Pierce the ball and stripping him down low was huge..
That being said, Kobe's overatedness comes when he has a bum to guard like Bowen and decides that he isn't worth guarding because he isn't what you would call a great scorer. We've all seen Kobe play defense on T-Mac and others.. when this guy puts his mind to it.. he's no doubt one of the games best defenders. |
You have to remember the play of Kobe stripping the ball. Also, that call is never usually made. Calls were late all game too!!! Keep in mind if that play was not called Kobe GOT the BLOCK!!!! |
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Fansince88
Sixth Man
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe hasn't play good D for the last few years. That's why he wasn't on the all D team last year. Last night was a prime example. He gambled on a steal and paid for it. I think Kobe gambles too much on D and needs to play more team D. |
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karlmalonefan
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Kobe>T-mac wrote: | | karlmalonefan wrote: | | eniq 0x00 wrote: | | kb8sunshine wrote: | | i don't think is defense is overrated, but it has gone done over the past 2 years. |
And what to you think has coincided with that? A total transformation of the team with inferior players. It's much harder to man-up if you have to leak to help on defense all the time. It's the same (bleep) that happened last year. Get better defenders at other positions and he'll be more consistent; it's as simple as that. |
True, he can't play defense all by himself, but that last play was something smush would have done...he was gambling on defense all night, going for steals that he missed while his man blew by him to the basket for a dunk...pretty embarassing, really.  |
There are no good defenders on bad teams, friends. To be a good defender you have to have help. People expect Kobe to hold his opponent to zero points every night. LG'ers made me laugh recently when they suggested Kobe man up and shut down Blake from portland instead of playing help defense. 
Yes he has bad nights and he isnt first team all D this year like in years past, but it probably has something to do with the fact that he is playing ball with the Yakama Sun Kings. Give him a guy like Artest to play with in the backcourt and he will be playing defense like Dennis Rodman. believe that. |
I agree with you...I think my point was, on that one last play (fouling Pierce) he should have stayed in front of him and made him make a tough shot, that was a rookie mistake, and if you don't think so, just look at phil and the rest of the coaches reactions to the play. it was boneheaded, i don't care if he is kobe bryant. and it wasn't the first boneheaded play he made that game. |
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Shapecity
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Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 527
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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If the Lakers didn't miss 10 free throws in the final quarter it would have never came to that botched call.
PJax post game comments were spot on. He said, "I thought the NBA was a leage where players decide the outcome of games, not the officials." |
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40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Sidious wrote: | | Bad defense, bad call. You don't make that call in that situation. That stupid woman ref was horrible all game. |
Sorry man that was a good call. Bl;aming it on the refs is not the way
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After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$ 
plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits |
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40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| eniq 0x00 wrote: | | You're angry that Kobe was a culprit in this loss, but maybe you should redirect your anger at the missed freethrows by Smush and Odom in the 4th quarter. |
Amen
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After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$
plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits |
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Supa
Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Pierce was lighting up George until he fouled out in the 3:28 mark. He didn't score after that, and on his only attempt, he got stripped by Kobe. That's called good defense. Kobe made a mistake to reach behind him, and the refs made him pay. It was a stupid move, and a bad call. I guarantee Kobe would never get a call like that.
I don't understand how Kobe's not allowed to let good offensive players get by him. Nobody keeps these guys in front of them, but Kobe has to. Was George keeping Pierce in front of him? Damn, that sure didn't work, he was getting lit up!
But then again people were calling Artest's defense overrated because Kobe had his way with him. |
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Supa
Star Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| 40ptmachine wrote: | | eniq 0x00 wrote: | | You're angry that Kobe was a culprit in this loss, but maybe you should redirect your anger at the missed freethrows by Smush and Odom in the 4th quarter. |
Amen |
It's definately the main culplit. We always lose these games when we miss tons of free throws. Either it's Smush, Lamar, or even Kobe on his rare days when he's missing them in bunches. |
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40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Supa wrote: | | 40ptmachine wrote: | | eniq 0x00 wrote: | | You're angry that Kobe was a culprit in this loss, but maybe you should redirect your anger at the missed freethrows by Smush and Odom in the 4th quarter. |
Amen |
It's definately the main culplit. We always lose these games when we miss tons of free throws. Either it's Smush, Lamar, or even Kobe on his rare days when he's missing them in bunches. |
Kobe makes clutch FTs usually
Lamar is an expert missing FT when it matters most and Smush is OK but needs to show some clutchness too
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After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$
plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits |
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vkewalra
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1722
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| PDX_LAKERFAN wrote: | That was a judgement call by the refs that was suspect.. even the ESPN announcers were surprised that they made that call.
I don't think you want to call Kobe out for his defense because he was the only reason why Pierce didn't go for 50. Kobe's defense down the stretch denying Pierce the ball even stripping him down low was huge. Last night was one of those games where if you breathed on Pierce, you were called for a foul. That last call wasn't enough to make that call. I don't think you make those types of calls when the game is on the line. I've seen some serious muggings this year towards the end of games where there was no calls. This call was suspect IMHO. |
That last call was BS, Kobe MAY have touched his jersey and that's about it. It was just as much of a foul as Pierce touching Kobe's jersey on the final play of the game. The Lakers played like crap most of the game and deserved to lose, but that's just an awful way to do it. I can't stand it when refs decide games. |
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The Dagger
Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| junebug wrote: | | I agree Kobe's defense is overrated. But I think he deserves all defensive team spot. There are little players playing good defense consistently. Even Artest doesn't do it. |
Excellent observation. Some of you all expect an all-defensive player to completely shutdown each and every player they play on any given night. Great defense never stops great offense. Simple as that. Kobe is an all-defensive player. You watch other all-defensive players (especially ones that also carry the offense) and you will see the same inconsistencies and let downs.
Some players like Ben Wallace, Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell actually rest on offense and give it their all on defense. Do you expect Kobe to do that too? If that we're the case we'd be in last place fo-shua.
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40ptmachine
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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People expect Kobe to do everything, that's the price of having a team full of clowns
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After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$
plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits |
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karlmalonefan
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Whether it was a bs call or not, the fact remains that it wouldn't have been called at all if kobe had just played him straight up instead of gambling for the steal like a rookie. It may have been a ticky tack call, but kobe made it possible for it to be called. that's all anyone is saying. make him make a tough shot instead of reaching around from behind...oh, and to whoever said that kobe doesn't miss free throws down the stretch, he missed at least six in the second half of the atlanta game...he was 6-12...i agree lo and smush should have hit their freethrows, but don't say that kobe hasn't laid the same egg... |
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jwbrown77
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 3271
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Can we hire an assistant coach that's only responsibility is to teach the team how to defend the pick and roll and hound them on it every practice? |
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Donia Jamieson
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Joined: 16 May 2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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That was a very bad call. She should be ashamed of herself in making such a call at the moment of the game.
The "ROOKIE MISTAKE" was not on Kobe as some of you are saying (he simply touched his jersey from behind, that is not a "rookie mistake" foul...that is a no-call by anyones standards), that is a rookie call on the female ref. Did you notice the other veteran refs kept there whistles in their pockets at that time.
The NBA does not want games decided in that fashion. It was complete bogus, and some of you blame Bryant? That is ridiculous. It was a bad bad bad call, one that should land that ref a session in Reffing 101 this summer.
Anyone who says that it was a good call or blames Bryant for the woman ref wanting to just end the game and not go to OT, doesn't know the game...sorry.
This woman did not want to work overtime and ended the game by her own decision not the players..  |
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gritsandcheese
Sixth Man
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| karlmalonefan wrote: | | Whether it was a bs call or not, the fact remains that it wouldn't have been called at all if kobe had just played him straight up instead of gambling for the steal like a rookie. |
How could he have played him straight up when on the last play a pick was set? |
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LAL25
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Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 885
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually Kobe does tend to get (bleep) pretty frequently. Both of them should focus more on just putting a hand up and staying in front of their man. |
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LAL25
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Posts: 885
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BLEEP? For Smush-itis?? |
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akk7
Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 3013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| His defense is overrated. A couple weeks ago ajaxxx made a thread about this and you guys flame him. Ok now you say players have bad nights here and there. The past three games his defense had been horrible. You guys maybe didn't notice cause he wasn't playing a superstar like last night vs pierce. He is overrated on defense. He was a great defensive player when Shaq was here because he would gamble, but when the player went past him you got a huge 7 foot 1 300 plus pound monster waiting for you. :roll: |
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KobeButler
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Nov 2004
Posts: 10179
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Players are really starting to expose Kobe's defense for sure. I specifically remember Desmond Mason when we were in NOK a few days ago? He kept attacking Kobe on the offensive side, got him in early foul trouble. Same with Cutino Mobley during the last Clips game. And now Paul Pierce is starting to take notice as well.
Kobe needs to stop gambling and reaching too damn much.
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Pain is temporary, at the end of pain is success... |
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statman
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Posts: 647
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: |
Actually, if history has taught us anything is that no matter how slight or marginal a play is the refs always make that call against the Lakers and, rarely for the Lakers especially in the last seconds of a game... |
You have got to be kidding. Did you not see the 1st game against Utah? That was one of the worst last-second calls I've ever seen.
Fans see what they want to see. I challenge you to find a single group of fans who doesn't believe that the refs are against their team. |
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karlmalonefan
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Donia Jamieson wrote: | That was a very bad call. She should be ashamed of herself in making such a call at the moment of the game.
The "ROOKIE MISTAKE" was not on Kobe as some of you are saying (he simply touched his jersey from behind, that is not a "rookie mistake" foul...that is a no-call by anyones standards), that is a rookie call on the female ref. Did you notice the other veteran refs kept there whistles in their pockets at that time.
The NBA does not want games decided in that fashion. It was complete bogus, and some of you blame Bryant? That is ridiculous. It was a bad bad bad call, one that should land that ref a session in Reffing 101 this summer.
Anyone who says that it was a good call or blames Bryant for the woman ref wanting to just end the game and not go to OT, doesn't know the game...sorry.
This woman did not want to work overtime and ended the game by her own decision not the players.. |
Wow, not only do you have eagle eyes that allowed you to see the play better from in front of your television screen than someone standing a few feet away, but you are also psychic and know both her thoughts and motivation for making the call...impressive... :roll: |
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karlmalonefan
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| gritsandcheese wrote: | | karlmalonefan wrote: | | Whether it was a bs call or not, the fact remains that it wouldn't have been called at all if kobe had just played him straight up instead of gambling for the steal like a rookie. |
How could he have played him straight up when on the last play a pick was set? |
well, he recovered enough to block the shot, imagine if he hadn't tried for the steal... :roll: |
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