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Xmas start ( Draft 11/18, Free Agency 11/20, Camp 12/1, Games 12/22, GSW testing for fans )
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Annihilator
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 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Why are we talking like it's a big deal these billionaires and millionaires are losing money? If they lose millions of dollars they still have billions and millions more in their bank account. Relax. The NBA will be just fine even if they don't play a single game next season. |
I doubt anyone cares if players or owners are losing money. However, fans do care that that that may affect where players decide to go, who is on the team's roster, and the season schedule |
And if teams can survive. How many years can the spoiled Buss kids continue to lose millions? |
There is no evidence that the Buss kids, both spoiled and unspoiled, have actually lost any money at all up to this point. The articles stated that NBA teams lost revenue not that the teams operated at a deficit. |
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | I think the cap stays at the same number, it will be too messy to drop it 40%, that’s where the escrow comes in. All the contracts signed this coming FA period (and all existing contract numbers) are understood by the players to be inflated numbers with 40% going to escrow. Then depending on the league revenues, they will get back whatever percentage makes the split 49/51. It seems like it would be unfair to lower the cap to fix the BRI split rather than to adjust the escrow to fix the BRI split. |
The primary concern seems to be the salary cap shock that would come from cutting the cap to $90M (that's a number that gets kicked around in the media, though the real number might be lower) and then having it bounce back to, say, $120M. In any event, while I usually sympathize with the players in labor disputes (as those of you who are veterans of the Big Lockout Thread a few years back will recall), right now I have a lot of sympathy for the owners. They've gone to considerable lengths to keep the league going, from investing a lot of money on the bubble to letting the games in the bubble become a social justice platform. If I was an owner, I'd be pretty frustrated with players who want an extended vacation while the league is bleeding money. |
I’m also wondering if they will get creative with the escrow. The money in escrow is being floated by the owners so a 40% escrow is a lot of money for them to shell out when they know it’s mostly going to come back to them. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The primary concern seems to be the salary cap shock that would come from cutting the cap to $90M (that's a number that gets kicked around in the media, though the real number might be lower) and then having it bounce back to, say, $120M. In any event, while I usually sympathize with the players in labor disputes (as those of you who are veterans of the Big Lockout Thread a few years back will recall), right now I have a lot of sympathy for the owners. They've gone to considerable lengths to keep the league going, from investing a lot of money on the bubble to letting the games in the bubble become a social justice platform. If I was an owner, I'd be pretty frustrated with players who want an extended vacation while the league is bleeding money. |
I’m also wondering if they will get creative with the escrow. The money in escrow is being floated by the owners so a 40% escrow is a lot of money for them to shell out when they know it’s mostly going to come back to them. |
I read somewhere that the players want to spread out the escrow hit over three years, or something like that. While that is an interesting idea, I'm not sure how practicable it would be. Some guys will be out of the league by then. Also, there is no guarantee that things will be back to normal in 2022.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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It’s behind a paywall, but this article from Shams Charania summarizes where things stand.
https://theathletic.com/2178332/2020/11/03/nba-season-start-date-down-to-dec-22-or-jan-18-to-be-decided-this-week-sources/
| Quote: | | Players coming out of several meetings believe a Dec. 22 start is inevitable, sources said. |
| Quote: | | The union informed players that there have been fears that if the league does not begin on Christmas, the TV partners may want to renegotiate their deals with the NBA. |
| Quote: | | Now, the NBA and NBPA are in agreement on spreading the escrow over three years: The league is proposing a 25 percent escrow over that time span, while the NBPA is offering 15 percent, sources said. Eighteen percent is viewed as a potential escrow number over three years, according to sources. |
| Quote: | Dec. 22 start:
– Dec. 1 training camps begin for three weeks
– Three-to-four preseason games
– 72-game regular season
– 14 back-to-back games per team
– 25 percent reduction in travel
– All-Star Break for six days in early March
– Regular season ends around May 16
– Play-in tournament for the Nos. 7-10 seeds in the Eastern and Western Conference
– Playoffs begin around May 22
– Finals finish around July 22
Jan. 18 start:
– Camp opens on Dec. 28, for three weeks
– Three-to-four preseason games
– 60-game regular season
– 24 back-to-back games per team
– 25 percent reduction in travel
– All-Star Break for six days beginning around April 9
– Regular season ends in June
– Play-in tournament for Nos. 7-10 seeds in Eastern and Western Conference
If 72 games:
– Playoff start around June 28
– Finals end around August 21-23 |
| Quote: | | The NBA and NBPA hope to maintain a salary cap and tax of $109 million and $132 million, respectively, |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t think that playoff games are necessary in a 72-game season. That would suck for the 7-8 seeds.
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LakerDYnasty72
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure if it can be done, but if Dec. 22nd is set in stone, perhaps an emergency provision can be agreed upon to allow expansion of rosters to cushion the toll on teams like our Lakers, who have played more recently than other teams. |
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Annihilator
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Not sure if it can be done, but if Dec. 22nd is set in stone, perhaps an emergency provision can be agreed upon to allow expansion of rosters to cushion the toll on teams like our Lakers, who have played more recently than other teams. |
Will the Lakers aggressively "load manage" LeBron, AD and others with a plan to just get into the playoffs and then try to defend the championship from whatever seed they get? Older bodies are not going to appreciate this quick turnaround into the next season. If everything is still in some sort of quarantine, there will be little home court advantage. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Not sure if it can be done, but if Dec. 22nd is set in stone, perhaps an emergency provision can be agreed upon to allow expansion of rosters to cushion the toll on teams like our Lakers, who have played more recently than other teams. |
Will the Lakers aggressively "load manage" LeBron, AD and others with a plan to just get into the playoffs and then try to defend the championship from whatever seed they get? Older bodies are not going to appreciate this quick turnaround into the next season. If everything is still in some sort of quarantine, there will be little home court advantage. |
Possibly, but I think the issue is getting exaggerated. The players all got a three month break in the middle of last season. Then the Lakers played 29 more games. 21 of those games were in the playoffs, and for sure playoff games are more taxing. On the other hand, there was no travel, and that’s a big deal. Still, I see people acting like they’re coming off of 82 games plus the playoffs.
For most other teams, the load is far less. About a quarter of the teams haven’t played a competitive game since March, and almost half of the teams haven’t played a game since August.
I’m sure that we’ll hear doom and gloom about the short turnaround, but I’m skeptical. I suspect that a lot of the resistance comes from the fact that guys want to spend time with their families, especially during the holidays. I respect that. A lot of these guys just spent months in the bubble. That would suck.
Am I worried about Lebron getting hurt? Sure, but not because of the turnaround. It’s because he turns 36 next month.
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hype
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Not sure if it can be done, but if Dec. 22nd is set in stone, perhaps an emergency provision can be agreed upon to allow expansion of rosters to cushion the toll on teams like our Lakers, who have played more recently than other teams. |
Will the Lakers aggressively "load manage" LeBron, AD and others with a plan to just get into the playoffs and then try to defend the championship from whatever seed they get? Older bodies are not going to appreciate this quick turnaround into the next season. If everything is still in some sort of quarantine, there will be little home court advantage. |
Possibly, but I think the issue is getting exaggerated. The players all got a three month break in the middle of last season. Then the Lakers played 29 more games. 21 of those games were in the playoffs, and for sure playoff games are more taxing. On the other hand, there was no travel, and that’s a big deal. Still, I see people acting like they’re coming off of 82 games plus the playoffs.
For most other teams, the load is far less. About a quarter of the teams haven’t played a competitive game since March, and almost half of the teams haven’t played a game since August.
I’m sure that we’ll hear doom and gloom about the short turnaround, but I’m skeptical. I suspect that a lot of the resistance comes from the fact that guys want to spend time with their families, especially during the holidays. I respect that. A lot of these guys just spent months in the bubble. That would suck.
Am I worried about Lebron getting hurt? Sure, but not because of the turnaround. It’s because he turns 36 next month. |
Agree completely, it's without question a bit of a disadvantage for us and the Heat especially but I doubt Lebron will do much from dec. 1st to the 22nd and Vogel will sit him out throughout the season and limit minutes like he did a great job of last season.
The Warriors and Nets who are both very possible contenders probably aren't thrilled either since they got main guys coming back from serious injuries. It is what it is and people are def. going a bit overboard. No other teams/players are going to feel sorry for the Lakers, Heat or any other team that played longer then others. |
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Snipes
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Personally I'd love an early start. We can rest our guys as much as we want. And like someone mentioned earlier..we had 3-4 months off in the middle - not like we kept playing. |
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focus
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | LakerDYnasty72 wrote: | | Not sure if it can be done, but if Dec. 22nd is set in stone, perhaps an emergency provision can be agreed upon to allow expansion of rosters to cushion the toll on teams like our Lakers, who have played more recently than other teams. |
Will the Lakers aggressively "load manage" LeBron, AD and others with a plan to just get into the playoffs and then try to defend the championship from whatever seed they get? Older bodies are not going to appreciate this quick turnaround into the next season. If everything is still in some sort of quarantine, there will be little home court advantage. |
Possibly, but I think the issue is getting exaggerated. The players all got a three month break in the middle of last season. Then the Lakers played 29 more games. 21 of those games were in the playoffs, and for sure playoff games are more taxing. On the other hand, there was no travel, and that’s a big deal. Still, I see people acting like they’re coming off of 82 games plus the playoffs.
For most other teams, the load is far less. About a quarter of the teams haven’t played a competitive game since March, and almost half of the teams haven’t played a game since August.
I’m sure that we’ll hear doom and gloom about the short turnaround, but I’m skeptical. I suspect that a lot of the resistance comes from the fact that guys want to spend time with their families, especially during the holidays. I respect that. A lot of these guys just spent months in the bubble. That would suck.
Am I worried about Lebron getting hurt? Sure, but not because of the turnaround. It’s because he turns 36 next month. |
One thing for sure...if we repeat, it'd be even more extraordinary in this context than the first win in the bubble after a nice layoff in the middle. Not only for Lebron, but for the team. It will be quite a mental challenge as much as physical without the traditional time off in a non-Covid postChampionship period to recharge for the next season. And the physical challenge will be substantial.
I think we need to be comfortable not having home court after the first round. Of Portland, Dallas, Clippers, Warriors and of course Denver, not one of them will need to take breathers during the season as much as us (unless Kawhi really is just not what he used to be physically and must sit out). The key will be how to sustain enough continuity to retain that top level defense when it's needed. I don't think we can actually have it in those actual games they miss, which means losses. So for the rest of the games, it means keeping non-main guys mentally fresh, sharp in games, and dedicated and believing in the mission. Tough job, and falls on Lebron, even in street clothes. |
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The Lebrons
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Will be very interesting to see how minutes are managed with the early start. Lebron has taken great pride in being available in every game the past few years (particularly 18 and 20, got hurt in 19). I'd assume he plays, but his effort level on defense will be 0. Also assume the vets will ply significantly less minutes.
Basically, the regular season is going to be a slog. People will be saying "what's wrong with the Lakers?" Expect a 2001 ramp up for the playoffs. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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At least with the league’s plan we will only have 14 back to backs. With a January start we would have 24.
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focus
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Just a simple question, is the upcoming season going to be in a bubble? It's in a month and Covid is getting worse. Why wouldn't there be another bubble? |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| focus wrote: | | Just a simple question, is the upcoming season going to be in a bubble? It's in a month and Covid is getting worse. Why wouldn't there be another bubble? |
Still up in the air per NBA.
Ideally, they would like the teams to play in home arenas with limited travel but they said regional bubbles is also a possibility if there are government restrictions for some markets. Raptors for example might play in Nashville or Florida. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | focus wrote: | | Just a simple question, is the upcoming season going to be in a bubble? It's in a month and Covid is getting worse. Why wouldn't there be another bubble? |
Still up in the air per NBA.
Ideally, they would like the teams to play in home arenas with limited travel but they said regional bubbles is also a possibility if there are government restrictions for some markets. Raptors for example might play in Nashville or Florida. |
With the start of the season 1 month and a half to go, plenty of time for the NBA to see what’s the best course of action, if the Covid cases drop in significant numbers I could see the NBA teams being allowed to play in there arena. |
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Annihilator
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | focus wrote: | | Just a simple question, is the upcoming season going to be in a bubble? It's in a month and Covid is getting worse. Why wouldn't there be another bubble? |
Still up in the air per NBA.
Ideally, they would like the teams to play in home arenas with limited travel but they said regional bubbles is also a possibility if there are government restrictions for some markets. Raptors for example might play in Nashville or Florida. |
With the start of the season 1 month and a half to go, plenty of time for the NBA to see what’s the best course of action, if the Covid cases drop in significant numbers I could see the NBA teams being allowed to play in there arena. |
There are two big impediments to Covid cases dropping in the next six weeks. The first happened four days ago and was called Halloween. The second occurs three weeks from tomorrow and is called Thanksgiving. From what I have heard, there was a lot of "non-properly socially distanced" activities on Halloween. Thanksgiving traditionally involves a lot of travel which will spread the virus; Covid cases are now spiking in some colleges and universities and when these students return home they will bring the virus with them. The modelers probably expect to see some more spiking in Covid diagnoses before the New Year. |
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AllorNothing
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | | focus wrote: | | Just a simple question, is the upcoming season going to be in a bubble? It's in a month and Covid is getting worse. Why wouldn't there be another bubble? |
Still up in the air per NBA.
Ideally, they would like the teams to play in home arenas with limited travel but they said regional bubbles is also a possibility if there are government restrictions for some markets. Raptors for example might play in Nashville or Florida. |
With the start of the season 1 month and a half to go, plenty of time for the NBA to see what’s the best course of action, if the Covid cases drop in significant numbers I could see the NBA teams being allowed to play in there arena. |
There are two big impediments to Covid cases dropping in the next six weeks. The first happened four days ago and was called Halloween. The second occurs three weeks from tomorrow and is called Thanksgiving. From what I have heard, there was a lot of "non-properly socially distanced" activities on Halloween. Thanksgiving traditionally involves a lot of travel which will spread the virus; Covid cases are now spiking in some colleges and universities and when these students return home they will bring the virus with them. The modelers probably expect to see some more spiking in Covid diagnoses before the New Year. |
I don't think Covid will drop at all unless their is an available vaccine. |
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LakerLanny
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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It feels like a force for the money to me which I get...except for the fact it will be in the prime cold and flu season with Covid perhaps spiking.
Money aside, the prudent thing would be to start the season on MLK Day and play less games or play longer into the summer to fulfill contractual obligations.
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Just going to have to make sure we don't play in D.C. until after January 20th  |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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I expect that the NBA will try to tough it out like the other pro sports leagues. I can't imagine the players living in a bubble for six months.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Why are we talking like it's a big deal these billionaires and millionaires are losing money? If they lose millions of dollars they still have billions and millions more in their bank account. Relax. The NBA will be just fine even if they don't play a single game next season. |
I doubt anyone cares if players or owners are losing money. However, fans do care that that that may affect where players decide to go, who is on the team's roster, and the season schedule |
And if teams can survive. How many years can the spoiled Buss kids continue to lose millions? |
Oh, I don't think any teams are going to disappear anytime soon. As far as the Busses, I have no idea if they're losing money or what their financial situation is, and I'm not going to pretend I do. I'll notice if and when it affects the team, but I don't expect that to happen for a while. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Oh, I don't think any teams are going to disappear anytime soon. As far as the Busses, I have no idea if they're losing money or what their financial situation is, and I'm not going to pretend I do. I'll notice if and when it affects the team, but I don't expect that to happen for a while. |
I agree with all of that, but I'll add a caveat. Just because an owner is a billionaire does not mean that the owner is not heavily leveraged. Consider the case of Tillman Fertitta. His wealth comes from restaurants and casinos, and he carries billions of dollars of debt that needs to be serviced. The pandemic is not a fun time for him. The Buss family may actually feel less pressure than some of the other owners.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Oh, I don't think any teams are going to disappear anytime soon. As far as the Busses, I have no idea if they're losing money or what their financial situation is, and I'm not going to pretend I do. I'll notice if and when it affects the team, but I don't expect that to happen for a while. |
I agree with all of that, but I'll add a caveat. Just because an owner is a billionaire does not mean that the owner is not heavily leveraged. Consider the case of Tillman Fertitta. His wealth comes from restaurants and casinos, and he carries billions of dollars of debt that needs to be serviced. The pandemic is not a fun time for him. The Buss family may actually feel less pressure than some of the other owners. |
That's true. And rich people often have a strange relationship with money. Just because someone can afford to lose a ton of money doesn't mean they are willing to lose a ton of money. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Why are we talking like it's a big deal these billionaires and millionaires are losing money? If they lose millions of dollars they still have billions and millions more in their bank account. Relax. The NBA will be just fine even if they don't play a single game next season. |
I doubt anyone cares if players or owners are losing money. However, fans do care that that that may affect where players decide to go, who is on the team's roster, and the season schedule |
Actually, the one group of individuals that I care about in this situation are the marginal players--the group of players that are in the league only a year or two. When their paychecks get cut, it does make a lifetime of difference. The CP3's, LBJ's, Kawhi's and even the Rondo's should be fine. |
On the other hand, a player who spends two years in the NBA makes as much in those two years as the average American does in his lifetime, so I'm not crying for any of these guys. |
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