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Four Decade Bandwagon
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 Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Time to go back to the basics with Schroder. His best role is coming off the bench and running the second unit. Start Caruso.
The experiment of starting Schroder to “ lighten the load” for James has not worked. James is James. He will have the ball as long as he is on the court, as he should. Why fight it.
Schroder can do what he does best with the second unit. Be more assertive and score points. IMO the best way to “lighten the load “ for James is less mpg and less intense games. Not allowing themselves to get buried in the first quarter and building/ keeping leads is much more valuable in keeping James rested then Schroder occasionally bringing the ball up. |
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LakerSD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:34 am Post subject: |
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I get the feeling that if he agrees to that 4 year extension this week, he will be “okay” with coming off the bench.
I do think it may be time to pair Caruso/LBJ. Lebron is playing too many minutes and hard minutes leading comebacks and playing almost entire 4Q almost every game. |
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sonic the laker
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I'm concerned about AD, but not TOO concerned...if that makes sense. With sufficient rest, I believe he'll be fine.
Gasol isn't doing anything that I wasn't expecting. The only problem I had with him was his hesitance in shooting the open 3's. He's taking them now, so I'm cool with him. My biggest problem is with Schroder. He had a hot, promising opening to the season. Where he was not only shooting the ball well, but aggressively driving to the rim. I have no qualms with his shot cooling off. But, the lack of aggressiveness, or decisiveness driving to the bucket has me mortified.
I wasn't expecting a floor general/passer, like Rondo, from Schroder. But, I was expecting a player who constantly put pressure on the opposing teams defense, by relentlessly attacking the paint. Someone who could help Bron, and AD, at the point of attack. So far, Dennis has failed in that regard. And, he makes matters worse by being an extremely poor passer. If he's not scoring, he's turning the ball over...
At this point, I'd rather THT take all of Schroder's minutes. He's a young guy, who will make youthful mistakes. But, he's always looking to make a play for himself, or others. Unlike Schroder, who has been apathetic, and pathetic.
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CamReddish
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Time to step it up
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leking006
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| sonic the laker wrote: | I'm concerned about AD, but not TOO concerned...if that makes sense. With sufficient rest, I believe he'll be fine.
Gasol isn't doing anything that I wasn't expecting. The only problem I had with him was his hesitance in shooting the open 3's. He's taking them now, so I'm cool with him. My biggest problem is with Schroder. He had a hot, promising opening to the season. Where he was not only shooting the ball well, but aggressively driving to the rim. I have no qualms with his shot cooling off. But, the lack of aggressiveness, or decisiveness driving to the bucket has me mortified.
I wasn't expecting a floor general/passer, like Rondo, from Schroder. But, I was expecting a player who constantly put pressure on the opposing teams defense, by relentlessly attacking the paint. Someone who could help Bron, and AD, at the point of attack. So far, Dennis has failed in that regard. And, he makes matters worse by being an extremely poor passer. If he's not scoring, he's turning the ball over...
At this point, I'd rather THT take all of Schroder's minutes. He's a young guy, who will make youthful mistakes. But, he's always looking to make a play for himself, or others. Unlike Schroder, who has been apathetic, and pathetic. |
Maybe he will start aggressive now as AD will be resting. Maybe he cant find his rhythm early because he needs to give the ball immediately to Bron or AD. Now in the starting lineup he will be the 2nd option.
He's got a good game when AD was sidelined, suddenly when AD return he had a bad game. Maybe he really need to be the 2nd option in the 1sr q to get him going immediately. |
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Killer_Z
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Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| We need you Schro ...... this is your time. Get after it! |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Killer_Z wrote: | | We need you Schro ...... this is your time. Get after it! |
Ideal time to work on that chemistry with Trez. No AD in the mix on that 2nd unit, when Bron rests. We can run a Trez/Kuz/THT/Caruso/Dennis lineup. Should be fun to see their development.
May not be as elite on D, but we can still work on some things. |
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RI Laker
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| TODAY is the day. Hopefully, we heat something about his resigning. We need it. |
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Sina
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:27 am Post subject: |
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It’s better to play Schroder off the bench. When Schroder start, our backcourt defense is worsened. KCP has to play SG and he has neither height nor strength advantage against most of SG. KCP is more effective against opponent’s PG. Schroder has not provided the speed and penetration we needed from him. He is hesitated playing with LBJ and AD. I would suggest to start Kuz over Schroder. Kuz has the height advantage against most of the SG. He could also switch among 2-4. He is more active and moving well off the ball. He is much better playing with LBJ and could also utilize well Gasol’s passing ability. It also allows to move KCP to back to PG and Lakers would have height/size advantage in most positions which are key if we don’t play small ball. Schroder off the bench with Harrell could provide the scoring we needed.
Gasol, Harrell
AD, Morris
LBJ, THT, Matthews
Kuz, Schroder
KCP, Caruso |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Sina wrote: | It’s better to play Schroder off the bench. When Schroder start, our backcourt defense is worsened. KCP has to play SG and he has neither height nor strength advantage against most of SG. KCP is more effective against opponent’s PG. Schroder has not provided the speed and penetration we needed from him. He is hesitated playing with LBJ and AD. I would suggest to start Kuz over Schroder. Kuz has the height advantage against most of the SG. He could also switch among 2-4. He is more active and moving well off the ball. He is much better playing with LBJ and could also utilize well Gasol’s passing ability. It also allows to move KCP to back to PG and Lakers would have height/size advantage in most positions which are key if we don’t play small ball. Schroder off the bench with Harrell could provide the scoring we needed.
Gasol, Harrell
AD, Morris
LBJ, THT, Matthews
Kuz, Schroder
KCP, Caruso |
Saying that "our backcourt defense is worsened" with Dennis is simply not true. His offensive game has been disappointing but his defense has been surprising and exceptional.
If you notice, even Marc is not being used on offense for his passing as it's mostly LBJ who handles the ball. Either the Lakers will have to diversify our offense (as we are getting pretty predictable with a LBJ-dominant offense) or we need to make changes.
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lakurluv
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Schro, if you're listening (reading)...
Consistency is the key. Nobody expects you to score 25-30ppg.
However if you can manage 10-12ppg and 7-8apg, throw in some steals, we should be good.
But the key is doing that every game!
Let's Go! |
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anth2000
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I guess I am not caught up. Is today supposed to be Dennis' extension day?
Also, I am not worried about Dennis at all. Sure, he has had some rough games but they will need him with AD down. I think he is just trying to work himself into the team without overdoing it. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:42 am Post subject: |
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This is a make or break time for Dennis in terms of extension. Comes at a good time actually so the team can really see how much he can step up in AD's absence. There are no more excuses now.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Being upfront I am not a fan of DS dating back to his Atlanta days. A good bench player but not worth the $'s he will receive.
Question, how much difference is there between DS and Avery Bradley?
Just my perspective. DS is a better playmaker but he is still average at best in this regard. They both are energetic defenders but AB has the clear edge here. Both are midrange scorers while AB has shown to be a better 3pt shooter for multiple years.
I understand AB's bubble issue but that is a personal choice and a non-issue for me.
So is DS worth $10-15 mil more than AB? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | Being upfront I am not a fan of DS dating back to his Atlanta days. A good bench player but not worth the $'s he will receive.
Question, how much difference is there between DS and Avery Bradley?
Just my perspective. DS is a better playmaker but he is still average at best in this regard. They both are energetic defenders but AB has the clear edge here. Both are midrange scorers while AB has shown to be a better 3pt shooter for multiple years.
I understand AB's bubble issue but that is a personal choice and a non-issue for me.
So is DS worth $10-15 mil more than AB? |
Yes. Reliability is quite important, especially in these COVID days. And I think his relationship with the team was frayed for whatever reason. While I get your on court critique, the off court stuff is very important in this context too.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | Being upfront I am not a fan of DS dating back to his Atlanta days. A good bench player but not worth the $'s he will receive.
Question, how much difference is there between DS and Avery Bradley?
Just my perspective. DS is a better playmaker but he is still average at best in this regard. They both are energetic defenders but AB has the clear edge here. Both are midrange scorers while AB has shown to be a better 3pt shooter for multiple years.
I understand AB's bubble issue but that is a personal choice and a non-issue for me.
So is DS worth $10-15 mil more than AB? |
Yes. Reliability is quite important, especially in these COVID days. And I think his relationship with the team was frayed for whatever reason. While I get your on court critique, the off court stuff is very important in this context too. |
I just believe a facsimile of DS could be found at a much more affordable cost.
My main concern is if DS costs the Lakers either THT/AC or Trez. Does he prevent THT additional playing time next season?
As for COVID I can relate personally to his issue so I can accept the choice he made and I would have done the same. At the time he made his decision there was still a lot of uncertainty about this pandemic and family matters always > than everything else. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | Being upfront I am not a fan of DS dating back to his Atlanta days. A good bench player but not worth the $'s he will receive.
Question, how much difference is there between DS and Avery Bradley?
Just my perspective. DS is a better playmaker but he is still average at best in this regard. They both are energetic defenders but AB has the clear edge here. Both are midrange scorers while AB has shown to be a better 3pt shooter for multiple years.
I understand AB's bubble issue but that is a personal choice and a non-issue for me.
So is DS worth $10-15 mil more than AB? |
Yes. Reliability is quite important, especially in these COVID days. And I think his relationship with the team was frayed for whatever reason. While I get your on court critique, the off court stuff is very important in this context too. |
I just believe a facsimile of DS could be found at a much more affordable cost.
My main concern is if DS costs the Lakers either THT/AC or Trez. Does he prevent THT additional playing time next season?
As for COVID I can relate personally to his issue so I can accept the choice he made and I would have done the same. At the time he made his decision there was still a lot of uncertainty about this pandemic and family matters always > than everything else. |
Umm, ok. What available options are out there?
Bradley is hurt a lot this season, and his team that was in the Finals is at the bottom of the East. He's just not dependable or reliable anymore. I'll take Dennis over him all day.
As to THT/AC, I don't think THT will get the kinds of deals that people are afraid he is going to get. I think AC will also be reasonably priced.
Trez? He may just want the most money and we are capped at what we can offer him so he's really not in my equation.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Bradley has played in just 10 games this year, after not playing since March 2020 after he opted out of the Bubble. Not good.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bradley has played in just 10 games this year, after not playing since March 2020 after he opted out of the Bubble. Not good. |
I realize he is hurt. I just used him for comparison of on court production to show DS is overvalued $ wise.
DS had what appears to be an outlier 2019 and has regressed to his prior years (6 total) of play. I like his intensity and bulldog mentality but that is not worth the $'s it seems will be required to sign him.
If there is not an uptick in his performance on the court they should cut ties in the offseason to ensure THT/AC and or Trez can be retained. Not sure if all 3 are even possible. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Bradley has played in just 10 games this year, after not playing since March 2020 after he opted out of the Bubble. Not good. |
I realize he is hurt. I just used him for comparison of on court production to show DS is overvalued $ wise.
DS had what appears to be an outlier 2019 and has regressed to his prior years (6 total) of play. I like his intensity and bulldog mentality but that is not worth the $'s it seems will be required to sign him.
If there is not an uptick in his performance on the court they should cut ties in the offseason to ensure THT/AC and or Trez can be retained. Not sure if all 3 are even possible. |
The outlier to me is playing alongside AD/LBJ. No one has stepped up even last season to being a high PPG level player alongside them.
I would not jump to conclusions until we can see him with LBJ while AD is out. I think he's been overly deferential as a new guy on a championship team. But maybe he will revert. But too soon to make that call. I'm glad he is extension eligible while AD is out. Show your value. Or not. But I don't think they would, or should, let him just leave as an asset. Having him as a 1 year rental while giving up a 1st (and Green) would have been a waste.
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
Umm, ok. What available options are out there?
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For this year I would start AC and move DS to the bench. AC has a lot of tertiary PG skills. He played PG in college and in the Gleague. He is at least on the same level as DS in this regard.
AC is a better shooter/scorer than he has shown with the Lakers as he does not look for his offense and defers to LBJ, AD and others. I believe it was at the end of LBJ's first year when he had those high scoring games to close out the season. Yes the games were meaningless and they may exaggerate his true scoring potential but he is not devoid of offensive skills.
For next year start THT as the tertiary PG and scorer. I believe he would put up the same type of production as DS and maybe be more efficient at it.
Lastly draft one of the 2 PG's at Baylor. Both should be ready to contribute their 1st year. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Umm, ok. What available options are out there?
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For this year I would start AC and move DS to the bench. AC has a lot of tertiary PG skills. He played PG in college and in the Gleague. He is at least on the same level as DS in this regard.
AC is a better shooter/scorer than he has shown with the Lakers as he does not look for his offense and defers to LBJ, AD and others. I believe it was at the end of LBJ's first year when he had those high scoring games to close out the season. Yes the games were meaningless and they may exaggerate his true scoring potential but he is not devoid of offensive skills.
For next year start THT as the tertiary PG and scorer. I believe he would put up the same type of production as DS and maybe be more efficient at it.
Lastly draft one of the 2 PG's at Baylor. Both should be ready to contribute their 1st year. |
I think Vogel knows AC well, and there's a reason he doesn't subject him to big minutes. I read somewhere that he thinks AC goes all out and having him play lesser minutes allows him to do so. I think that's the magic of AC as he comes in and just goes 100% for 20-22mpg.
I love THT. I really love this kid. But he's too inconsistent right now and Vogel is trying to have him be a more well-rounded player. AC/THT are just different types of players compared to Dennis.
Dennis gives us a unique weapon we haven't had in years, namely, someone who can attack the rim and hit the mid-range well. He also is a pesky defender.
Is Dennis meeting my lofty expectations that I had for him? No. But I'm giving him more time than 1/3rd of the season to figure things out, especially with limited practice time.
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Sina
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="yinoma2001"][quote="Sina"]It’s better to play Schroder off the bench. When Schroder start, our backcourt defense is worsened. KCP has to play SG and he has neither height nor strength advantage against most of SG. KCP is more effective against opponent’s PG. Schroder has not provided the speed and penetration we needed from him. He is hesitated playing with LBJ and AD. I would suggest to start Kuz over Schroder. Kuz has the height advantage against most of the SG. He could also switch among 2-4. He is more active and moving well off the ball. He is much better playing with LBJ and could also utilize well Gasol’s passing ability. It also allows to move KCP to back to PG and Lakers would have height/size advantage in most positions which are key if we don’t play small ball. Schroder off the bench with Harrell could provide the scoring we needed.
Gasol, Harrell
AD, Morris
LBJ, THT, Matthews
Kuz, Schroder
KCP, Caruso[/quote]
Saying that "our backcourt defense is worsened" with Dennis is simply not true. His offensive game has been disappointing but his defense has been surprising and exceptional.
If you notice, even Marc is not being used on offense for his passing as it's mostly LBJ who handles the ball. Either the Lakers will have to diversify our offense (as we are getting pretty predictable with a LBJ-dominant offense) or we need to make changes.[/quote]
KCP is moved to SG with Schroder stariting. He is not that effective at defending SG which affect our backcourt defense indeed |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Umm, ok. What available options are out there?
|
For this year I would start AC and move DS to the bench. AC has a lot of tertiary PG skills. He played PG in college and in the Gleague. He is at least on the same level as DS in this regard.
AC is a better shooter/scorer than he has shown with the Lakers as he does not look for his offense and defers to LBJ, AD and others. I believe it was at the end of LBJ's first year when he had those high scoring games to close out the season. Yes the games were meaningless and they may exaggerate his true scoring potential but he is not devoid of offensive skills.
For next year start THT as the tertiary PG and scorer. I believe he would put up the same type of production as DS and maybe be more efficient at it.
Lastly draft one of the 2 PG's at Baylor. Both should be ready to contribute their 1st year. |
I think Vogel knows AC well, and there's a reason he doesn't subject him to big minutes. I read somewhere that he thinks AC goes all out and having him play lesser minutes allows him to do so. I think that's the magic of AC as he comes in and just goes 100% for 20-22mpg.
I love THT. I really love this kid. But he's too inconsistent right now and Vogel is trying to have him be a more well-rounded player. AC/THT are just different types of players compared to Dennis.
Dennis gives us a unique weapon we haven't had in years, namely, someone who can attack the rim and hit the mid-range well. He also is a pesky defender.
Is Dennis meeting my lofty expectations that I had for him? No. But I'm giving him more time than 1/3rd of the season to figure things out, especially with limited practice time. |
AC does not have to change his game. This is where DS off the bench will help offset the loss on offense when Lebron sits and AC needs a rest.
While THT is different I still foresee him putting up production similar to DS.
He similarly attacks the rim at possibly even a higher % and with his ball handling and body control a mid-range game should be attainable.
Improving his passing skills would be my first area of emphasis.
Yes he is inconsistent but I am discussing him starting next year where his game should further mature given court time this year and another offseason working with trainers and skill coaches (Handy, Penberthy).
I am just more pessimistic on DS given his 6 years prior to 2019. Probably best to just have him serve as a SG with less ball handling responsibilities similar to his time with OKC. Similar to your analysis of AC he may be exerting a lot of energy on D thus affecting his O. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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The real elephant in the room is KCP. He's been struggling pretty badly on a long stretch. Why is no one talking about starting AC over him? They are comparable sizes and AC wouldn't have to have as much ball handling responsibilities?
Last year they were going with Avery/Green for most of the regular season. We then flipped it to KCP/Green in the Bubble. Not sure if KCP is mentally locked in for the regular season. He has had some horrendous slow starts for us the past 10-12 games.
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