Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:46 am Post subject:
DLaker wrote:
Dwight gone because he is impatient. If I have a choice between Dwight and Gasol, I would rather have Gasol as the starting center. Defensively we didn’t lose much, Dwight will have more highlight blocks since he is more athletic, but overall there D there is not much drop off. Offensively Gasol is much better than Dwight. I do think we need another center, but I don’t see a rush cause I’m sure we can pick up a big body once we can use the remainder of our cash to sign another player.
But we essentially gave up both Dwight AND McGee to get Gasol. Not sure I take Gasol over either one, let alone both. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Dwight gone because he is impatient. If I have a choice between Dwight and Gasol, I would rather have Gasol as the starting center. Defensively we didn’t lose much, Dwight will have more highlight blocks since he is more athletic, but overall there D there is not much drop off. Offensively Gasol is much better than Dwight. I do think we need another center, but I don’t see a rush cause I’m sure we can pick up a big body once we can use the remainder of our cash to sign another player.
But we essentially gave up both Dwight AND McGee to get Gasol. Not sure I take Gasol over either one, let alone both.
How so? The order of events was:
* Trezz agrees to a deal
* Howard decides to leave
* the Lakers then trade McGee to free up enough space to sign Gasol
So it's really McGee + Howard + 2nd for Trezz + Gasol + McKinnie
It is the defensive positioning to challenge shots and your own man, it is quite different. Plus, Dwight gave the Lakers a level of intimidation and physicality we don't have this year. But for sure, even when we signed him, I was happy it was Gasol over McGee. The move was never Gasol over McGee. All of this started, with McGee opting (right for him, screwed us up). Once McGee opted in, Dwight saw Trez coming, and McGee signed, and knew AD plays 5 as well. Lakers made no offer, and he walked to a team that had guaranteed minutes/role and an offer (right move for him). I bet you if we move McGee right away, or McGee opts out, this would have turned out a bit different and we may have had Dwight, Gasol and Trez. But, in the end, the truth is, the Lakers did rely on Dwight only in 1 playoff series out of 4 in a heavy way (Denver). It remains to be seen if Marc can defend elite 5s the way Dwight can, and for sure Trez can not. We have to watch Marc's defense against elite 5s these upcoming match ups with Denver or what not. And then see if another move is needed to be made.
In terms of fitting around AD-Bron, as Mike [AT] LG says. Those guys are like positional cheat codes. They can play any spot 1-5 any role. So I was confident Marc would fit in as a 3 point shooter, screen setter, passer, as he has began to.
The key is again match ups against elite 5s such as Ayton (if Suns are a playoff team we face), Jokic etc. These playoff teams we may face ...... in a 7 game series. Having a shut down guy like Dwight was a major asset.
Dwight was absolutely not shutting down Jokic in any way. After the first couple of games Jokic was getting what he wanted for the most part and laughing off Dwight trying to "intimidate" him. He made him work a bit harder but Marc has shown he can do that as well in there past matchups. Plus Dwight tried to get into Jokic's head which kind of worked for 1 game but then it got reversed and it looked like Dwight was a ticking time bomb about to explode at any moment from game 3 on. I can guarantee that wont happen with Marc.
Marc has been doing this for years and years including just last season. As long as we don't run him into the ground which we def. wont I see no reason he wont do it this year as well in limited minutes. Even if he gets some small injury at some point, just shut him down and make sure he's good to go for the Playoffs and we're fine.
I'm all for getting that emergency end of the bench just in case big but it's not really that serious at this point imo.
I also believe Trezz is much better defensively then many here like to give him credit for. It's common sense he shouldn't be left on an island against guys like Jokic or Embiid and that will never happen as a Laker. He's fine against any bench big or starter for a couple minutes imo because they have to guard him as well.
Wolf your 100% right..Hype your 100% wrong...Dwight completely contained Jokic in the play-offs, in fact he was a non-factor...Murray was the problem and kept them competitive.
"Dwight shut down Jokic"
Jokic vs the Lakers that series
21 PPG
7 REB
5 AST
2 STLS
53% from the Field
36% from Three _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 19 Nov 2007 Posts: 4369 Location: Lake Nacimiento
Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:11 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
King Randle wrote:
hype wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
governator wrote:
Gasol 13 games 19mpg 1.6bpg so far
Dwight 69 games (last season) 19mpg 1.1 bpg
It is the defensive positioning to challenge shots and your own man, it is quite different. Plus, Dwight gave the Lakers a level of intimidation and physicality we don't have this year. But for sure, even when we signed him, I was happy it was Gasol over McGee. The move was never Gasol over McGee. All of this started, with McGee opting (right for him, screwed us up). Once McGee opted in, Dwight saw Trez coming, and McGee signed, and knew AD plays 5 as well. Lakers made no offer, and he walked to a team that had guaranteed minutes/role and an offer (right move for him). I bet you if we move McGee right away, or McGee opts out, this would have turned out a bit different and we may have had Dwight, Gasol and Trez. But, in the end, the truth is, the Lakers did rely on Dwight only in 1 playoff series out of 4 in a heavy way (Denver). It remains to be seen if Marc can defend elite 5s the way Dwight can, and for sure Trez can not. We have to watch Marc's defense against elite 5s these upcoming match ups with Denver or what not. And then see if another move is needed to be made.
In terms of fitting around AD-Bron, as Mike ( a t ) LG says. Those guys are like positional cheat codes. They can play any spot 1-5 any role. So I was confident Marc would fit in as a 3 point shooter, screen setter, passer, as he has began to.
The key is again match ups against elite 5s such as Ayton (if Suns are a playoff team we face), Jokic etc. These playoff teams we may face ...... in a 7 game series. Having a shut down guy like Dwight was a major asset.
Dwight was absolutely not shutting down Jokic in any way. After the first couple of games Jokic was getting what he wanted for the most part and laughing off Dwight trying to "intimidate" him. He made him work a bit harder but Marc has shown he can do that as well in there past matchups. Plus Dwight tried to get into Jokic's head which kind of worked for 1 game but then it got reversed and it looked like Dwight was a ticking time bomb about to explode at any moment from game 3 on. I can guarantee that wont happen with Marc.
Marc has been doing this for years and years including just last season. As long as we don't run him into the ground which we def. wont I see no reason he wont do it this year as well in limited minutes. Even if he gets some small injury at some point, just shut him down and make sure he's good to go for the Playoffs and we're fine.
I'm all for getting that emergency end of the bench just in case big but it's not really that serious at this point imo.
I also believe Trezz is much better defensively then many here like to give him credit for. It's common sense he shouldn't be left on an island against guys like Jokic or Embiid and that will never happen as a Laker. He's fine against any bench big or starter for a couple minutes imo because they have to guard him as well.
Wolf your 100% right..Hype your 100% wrong...Dwight completely contained Jokic in the play-offs, in fact he was a non-factor...Murray was the problem and kept them competitive.
"Dwight shut down Jokic"
Jokic vs the Lakers that series
21 PPG
7 REB
5 AST
2 STLS
53% from the Field
36% from Three
Yeah, that was a really odd statement to make and kind of makes me question how much of the games he watched because it was pretty obvious Howard woke Jokic up and he became a beast from game 3 on especially but he wasn't even shutting him down before that. Not even AD was shutting him down in the last couple, Jokic was going toe to toe with him at times. Dwight did a damn good job of making it tough on him but some are massively overblowing that.
Marc is actually a better defensive and offensive player than Dwight or McGee. Both can play more minutes and will get more highlights, but when the team commits to playing defense, Marc's defense is better and the statistics prove it.
We have 4 Centers with Marc, Harrell, AD and Morris. I think we can use another PF-C 7' and expect Lakers to pick one once the vet min dwindles.
Currently we're the best defensive team in the league in terms of efficiency apparently. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
It is the defensive positioning to challenge shots and your own man, it is quite different. Plus, Dwight gave the Lakers a level of intimidation and physicality we don't have this year. But for sure, even when we signed him, I was happy it was Gasol over McGee. The move was never Gasol over McGee. All of this started, with McGee opting (right for him, screwed us up). Once McGee opted in, Dwight saw Trez coming, and McGee signed, and knew AD plays 5 as well. Lakers made no offer, and he walked to a team that had guaranteed minutes/role and an offer (right move for him). I bet you if we move McGee right away, or McGee opts out, this would have turned out a bit different and we may have had Dwight, Gasol and Trez. But, in the end, the truth is, the Lakers did rely on Dwight only in 1 playoff series out of 4 in a heavy way (Denver). It remains to be seen if Marc can defend elite 5s the way Dwight can, and for sure Trez can not. We have to watch Marc's defense against elite 5s these upcoming match ups with Denver or what not. And then see if another move is needed to be made.
In terms of fitting around AD-Bron, as Mike @ LG says. Those guys are like positional cheat codes. They can play any spot 1-5 any role. So I was confident Marc would fit in as a 3 point shooter, screen setter, passer, as he has began to.
The key is again match ups against elite 5s such as Ayton (if Suns are a playoff team we face), Jokic etc. These playoff teams we may face ...... in a 7 game series. Having a shut down guy like Dwight was a major asset.
Dwight was absolutely not shutting down Jokic in any way. After the first couple of games Jokic was getting what he wanted for the most part and laughing off Dwight trying to "intimidate" him. He made him work a bit harder but Marc has shown he can do that as well in there past matchups. Plus Dwight tried to get into Jokic's head which kind of worked for 1 game but then it got reversed and it looked like Dwight was a ticking time bomb about to explode at any moment from game 3 on. I can guarantee that wont happen with Marc.
Marc has been doing this for years and years including just last season. As long as we don't run him into the ground which we def. wont I see no reason he wont do it this year as well in limited minutes. Even if he gets some small injury at some point, just shut him down and make sure he's good to go for the Playoffs and we're fine.
I'm all for getting that emergency end of the bench just in case big but it's not really that serious at this point imo.
I also believe Trezz is much better defensively then many here like to give him credit for. It's common sense he shouldn't be left on an island against guys like Jokic or Embiid and that will never happen as a Laker. He's fine against any bench big or starter for a couple minutes imo because they have to guard him as well.
Wolf your 100% right..Hype your 100% wrong...Dwight completely contained Jokic in the play-offs, in fact he was a non-factor...Murray was the problem and kept them competitive.
"Dwight shut down Jokic"
Jokic vs the Lakers that series
21 PPG
7 REB
5 AST
2 STLS
53% from the Field
36% from Three
For a guy that's averaging 24 ppg, 11 rpg and 10 assists per game....yeah he actually contained him and did a hell of a job.
Firstly, I never said he shutdown Joker for the series. I said Dwight is a shut down guy, What I meant by that is you can put Dwight can be a lockdown guy which is not really a false statement to say as he is one of the best defenders ever at his position (3 DPOTY awards all in his prime, What you can do, in for a few moments or a match up, and trust him 1 on 1 on that guy. You do not need to call for help when Dwight is on you. Second, Dwight did very well against Joker considering how Joker tore up the rest of the league in that bubble play. Until teams played small and forced Dwight out, it was a phenomenal asset to have. However even at it's best, Dwight led to the other side being a little less effective, we did not have the floor spacing. While you gained on the defensive end with Dwight, and good screen setting on O, you lost some offensive potency as his best trait was in the paint, and Lebron/AD also are most effective in the paint area.
The good thing with Gasol, you get the floor spacing and offense you want to run. This is why the ratings of the team are good with Gasol. Gasol allows Bron to post up, play bully ball all of that. He also sets pretty physical screens. AD as well can play inside. Marc is a very high IQ physical defender. What I am concerned with him, is athletic matchups. Ayton, Porzingis, Ibaka even, those are likely 3 of the best West teams in the playoffs and we could face 1 or 2 of them in the playoffs. Anyone that has size combined with athleticism and length that can draw him outside a bit, or expose him in 2 man games via screen/roll. This is the area where I think we will need to go with AD at the 5. We have seen major improvement in the team's defense the last 2 weeks (especially 4 games). That is great. Lakers play D + all their improved shot making on the team, they should be tougher to beat this year, than last year. Even if we lost some athleticism and physicality, as long as our defensive rotations, pressure etc all remain same (or even better) we will should be better.
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject:
Gasol is starting to move up and down the court well. I said last year, we wouldn't win a chip without Rondo being special in the playoffs.
This year, it's the same story with Gasol. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
D 12 had a bit of an intimidation factor to him. Super active rim play. couldn't hit the side of a barn and got a lot of dumb fouls iirc. Still loved his 'tude and quick hops. Miss that but Mark Gasol is a complete BB player and a very big dude. _________________ Mama, There Goes That Mamba.
D 12 had a bit of an intimidation factor to him. Super active rim play. couldn't hit the side of a barn and got a lot of dumb fouls iirc.
It didn't mean anything. The stats are better with Gasol, and the same amount of shots are attempted at the rim that there was with Dwight/McGee. The 'intimidation factor' meant nothing. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at.
I will be looking for that Gasol you speak of, cause as of lately his stats are trending down . This was against 7 or 8 teams that are under .500
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:48 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at.
I think it's silly to reduce one's take on Dwight to him jumping high or flashy blocks.. It's the same kind of ridiculous summation some would make when they would say "dunks baby"..
If we are a better team it isn't because of Gasol. I'm okay with you believing that though. =)
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at.
I think it's silly to reduce one's take on Dwight to him jumping high or flashy blocks.. It's the same kind of ridiculous summation some would make when they would say "dunks baby"..
If we are a better team it isn't because of Gasol. I'm okay with you believing that though. =)
Our team is the Number 1 team in the league at rim protection this year thus far. Our frontcourt's only change is replacing Dwight with Harrell and McGee with Gasol. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:15 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
MJST wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at.
I think it's silly to reduce one's take on Dwight to him jumping high or flashy blocks.. It's the same kind of ridiculous summation some would make when they would say "dunks baby"..
If we are a better team it isn't because of Gasol. I'm okay with you believing that though. =)
Our team is the Number 1 team in the league at rim protection this year thus far. Our frontcourt's only change is replacing Dwight with Harrell and McGee with Gasol.
Like I said.. if you want to attribute this team being better or #1 to Gasol fine.. I don't..
I do think it's lame to say people prefer Dwight because he jumps high or has flashy blocks. I shouldn't have to explain the benefits of having him in the line-up.
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at.
I think it's silly to reduce one's take on Dwight to him jumping high or flashy blocks.. It's the same kind of ridiculous summation some would make when they would say "dunks baby"..
If we are a better team it isn't because of Gasol. I'm okay with you believing that though. =)
It isn't just because of Gasol, but he is one of the reasons for it. He is better that any C fornthe team last season outside of AD. He is better than Dwight, _________________ Previously LBJ23
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:40 pm Post subject:
LBJ23 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
MJST wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I prefer Dwight over Gasol by a mile.. a really long mile lol.. Others can continue to push their preferences as well. Won't change any minds.
That's fine. But we're better with Gasol.
It's not about preferences when it comes to Gasol, it's about what he brings and that we're a better team. I'd rather be the better team than hang onto Dwight because he was flashy or jumped high. If the numbers are better with Gasol, then Gasol is the one we want.
On the defensive side they are, and Gasol also brings three point shooting, passing and floor spacing. All of which he is better than Dwight at.
I think it's silly to reduce one's take on Dwight to him jumping high or flashy blocks.. It's the same kind of ridiculous summation some would make when they would say "dunks baby"..
If we are a better team it isn't because of Gasol. I'm okay with you believing that though. =)
It isn't just because of Gasol, but he is one of the reasons for it. He is better that any C fornthe team last season outside of AD. He is better than Dwight,
I can get on board with him being a part of the reason.. Just like I could get on board with Dwight being a part of the reason if he were still here.
I don't want to beat a dead horse. It's just my opinion that Dwight would be a better option. One thing to consider, at the start of last season guys were still acclimating, we were weak at the guard spot, and KCP wasn't quite KCP. Kuz was just okay on defense.
This year thus far, Kuz is better on D and other areas. KCP as well. Guys are better adjusted to the system and each other. Gasol is smart enough to be plugged in and fit without disrupting flow, which also contributes to our initial success so far this season.
LAL are No. 1 in DEF efficiency, but only 23rd in paint points against (47.9) after ranking 7th last year at 44.6.
Frank Vogel said it’s too early to draw any conclusions about that, but did say he challenged his back line defenders about rim protection that’s been lagging the past games.
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