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unleasHell
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Gasol's a train wreck, a foul machine, terrible shooter, poor defensively and a terrible signing, Howard runs circles around him, why they let him go is beyond reason...
The Lakers win DESPITE of him...
NOT because of him...
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | Gasol's a train wreck, a foul machine, terrible shooter, poor defensively and a terrible signing, Howard runs circles around him, why they let him go is beyond reason...
The Lakers win DESPITE of him...
NOT because of him... |
We need to find a way to package Wes Matthews + someone like Kieff for a decent C. |
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oaktown_dimond
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Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Would Pau be better than his brother at this point? |
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Nnamdi21
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Marc is   |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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He is doing fine, not great by any means. We really shouldn’t expect too much from him given his age and contract. The lakers starting five is out scoring the other team by 25 points per 100, so he must be doing something right. His defensive rating is quite high actually. He pulls the opposing big out of the 3 point lane, Ds/LBJ/AD have more room to operate.
If changes are needed, I am sure the management will do it.
Tomorrow will be a good test, let’s hope he can hold up against embiid |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Gasol's doing fine with us.
People need to stop with this "game by game" basis stuff. Because they disappear when he had 3 blocks and solid defense last game.
Only to reappear now and say he's terrible. Gets tiresome.
Marc's averaging more blocks than Dwight and McGee in essentially the same amount of time played.
The Lakers are near the top of the league at rim protection and we are the Number 1 Defense in the league.
Gasol's been fine, and we're fine on that end. In fact, we're the best in the league on that end.
Gasol's value is measured by all his games put together, not one in particular where he may struggle that some of you need to jump on to convince yourselves you're right about him because you judged after 2 games early in the season.
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crackadon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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^ MJST, do you get paid to defend Gasol at this point? You're constantly in 3-4 threads sticking up for him no matter what.
He gets so many quick fouls, it's infuriating. I don't even need to get into his age, size, lack of mobility/athleticism. All his constant fouling alone is enough reason to grab another center.
AD had so much trouble today with the twin towers approach the Cavs used against him. Grab Dedmon, Vonleh or T. Maker to at least help bang with the big boys.
I love Gasol's passing, court vision, bball iq, leadership and at times, his shooting. All that aside, it's become glaringly obvious that we need another big. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| crackadon wrote: | ^ MJST, do you get paid to defend Gasol at this point? You're constantly in 3-4 threads sticking up for him no matter what.
He gets so many quick fouls, it's infuriating. I don't even need to get into his age, size, lack of mobility/athleticism. All his constant fouling alone is enough reason to grab another center.
AD had so much trouble today with the twin towers approach the Cavs used against him. Grab Dedmon, Vonleh or T. Maker to at least help bang with the big boys.
I love Gasol's passing, court vision, bball iq, leadership and at times, his shooting. All that aside, it's become glaringly obvious that we need another big. |
We don't need another big when we already have Gasol, Harrell and Davis when needed that can shore up that position. We're three deep at that position, and we even have two inactive players on the roster that also play Center.
So "center" is the last thing we need to fill currently.
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | crackadon wrote: | ^ MJST, do you get paid to defend Gasol at this point? You're constantly in 3-4 threads sticking up for him no matter what.
He gets so many quick fouls, it's infuriating. I don't even need to get into his age, size, lack of mobility/athleticism. All his constant fouling alone is enough reason to grab another center.
AD had so much trouble today with the twin towers approach the Cavs used against him. Grab Dedmon, Vonleh or T. Maker to at least help bang with the big boys.
I love Gasol's passing, court vision, bball iq, leadership and at times, his shooting. All that aside, it's become glaringly obvious that we need another big. |
We don't need another big when we already have Gasol, Harrell and Davis when needed that can shore up that position. We're three deep at that position, and we even have two inactive players on the roster that also play Center.
So "center" is the last thing we need to fill currently. |
None of those guys fits well with our offense. We are a better offensive team this season while ranking first on defense. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | crackadon wrote: | ^ MJST, do you get paid to defend Gasol at this point? You're constantly in 3-4 threads sticking up for him no matter what.
He gets so many quick fouls, it's infuriating. I don't even need to get into his age, size, lack of mobility/athleticism. All his constant fouling alone is enough reason to grab another center.
AD had so much trouble today with the twin towers approach the Cavs used against him. Grab Dedmon, Vonleh or T. Maker to at least help bang with the big boys.
I love Gasol's passing, court vision, bball iq, leadership and at times, his shooting. All that aside, it's become glaringly obvious that we need another big. |
We don't need another big when we already have Gasol, Harrell and Davis when needed that can shore up that position. We're three deep at that position, and we even have two inactive players on the roster that also play Center.
So "center" is the last thing we need to fill currently. |
Disagree.
We are STACKED at guard so no need.
At big wing forward, we are 3 deep with LBJ/Kuz/McKinnie.
At PF, we are stacked.
At true center, we have Marc/AD. Trez/Kieff can play center but are 6'7/6'8. Cacok is 6'7 and Baby Giannis...no.
Give me another 7 footer please.
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troy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Gasol's doing fine with us.
People need to stop with this "game by game" basis stuff. Because they disappear when he had 3 blocks and solid defense last game.
Only to reappear now and say he's terrible. Gets tiresome.
Marc's averaging more blocks than Dwight and McGee in essentially the same amount of time played.
The Lakers are near the top of the league at rim protection and we are the Number 1 Defense in the league.
Gasol's been fine, and we're fine on that end. In fact, we're the best in the league on that end.
Gasol's value is measured by all his games put together, not one in particular where he may struggle that some of you need to jump on to convince yourselves you're right about him because you judged after 2 games early in the season. |
No. Gasol's value is measured by his impact game by game, because if we lose due to his ineptness, that impacts are positioning come post season.
Last game, Marc Gasol had more FOULS than he did points, rebounds, and assists. This from a starting center on a team that hopes to repeat as NBA champions.
That's horrible, and there is no spin to cover that. I'm sure Marc is a nice guy, and he tries hard. But his body just can't do what it used to anymore. This Lakers team needs a starting center, and Marc isn't it. |
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miggz23
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Another big test for Gasol next game vs Embiid... But Embiid is not as physical as Drummond. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:50 am Post subject: |
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Ideally, IMO, Gasol is a bench big who can help facilitate the 2nd unit more. But we can't credibly start Trez/Kieff full time at center (which is a good litmus test to me about how thin we actually are at that position).
I think Rob will find a good big man backup whether it's through FAs (Dedmon is my 1st choice), trades, or buyouts. I can't imagine him adding more guards at this point. The only buyout wing that would interest me is Ariza but other than that, I would patch up our only real weak link on the team.
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Gasol's doing fine with us.
People need to stop with this "game by game" basis stuff. Because they disappear when he had 3 blocks and solid defense last game.
Only to reappear now and say he's terrible. Gets tiresome.
Marc's averaging more blocks than Dwight and McGee in essentially the same amount of time played.
The Lakers are near the top of the league at rim protection and we are the Number 1 Defense in the league.
Gasol's been fine, and we're fine on that end. In fact, we're the best in the league on that end.
Gasol's value is measured by all his games put together, not one in particular where he may struggle that some of you need to jump on to convince yourselves you're right about him because you judged after 2 games early in the season. |
No. Gasol's value is measured by his impact game by game, because if we lose due to his ineptness, that impacts are positioning come post season.
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When we lose, it isn't because of Gasol. In fact Golden State massacred us in the paint when Gasol wasn't in. So think about that.
And the issue with trying to criticize game after game is that if the "game by game" criticism was "Got in foul trouble early, has to stay on the court" that's one thing.
But when people watch him have a 3 block solid defensive game and they say nothing, and then the next game when he gets into foul trouble he's' "shot" that's the problem.
People seem to forget the stretch Gasol had defensively before the Warriors loss we had. But those people also tend to forget the Warriors started killing us inside in the 4th when Gasol wasn't on the floor. So by their own logic, we lost because Gasol wasn't our last line of defense.
Then against the Bulls he has a good defensive game and there's crickets. Just like when he shut down Valencunas and the same crickets were going "Well shutting down Jonas means nothing... let's see him shut down Embiid and Jokic"
Essentially when Gasol plays good defense it's crickets, but i f he has a game he struggles he's "shot" he's "done" he's "ineffective".
Meanwhile the Lakers are the Number 1 defense in the league, and ranked in the top 3 in Rim Protection. Yet if you listen to some of these complaints you'd think that we rank 30th in rim protection and 15th in defense 
The reality is the gap between us and other teams defensively is growing
https://twitter.com/_JasonLT/status/1353347412576751616
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troy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Ideally, IMO, Gasol is a bench big who can help facilitate the 2nd unit more. But we can't credibly start Trez/Kieff full time at center (which is a good litmus test to me about how thin we actually are at that position).
I think Rob will find a good big man backup whether it's through FAs (Dedmon is my 1st choice), trades, or buyouts. I can't imagine him adding more guards at this point. The only buyout wing that would interest me is Ariza but other than that, I would patch up our only real weak link on the team. |
I agree with this. Gasol would be perfect for the 2nd team, and move Harrell to the 4. Gasol can be more of a stretch 5 and let Harrell do the dirty work inside. But by no means should Gasol be a starter for this Lakers team. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I still think Marc will start but as we get to playoff time, I think he will have a more ceremonial start 1st/3rd Q role that Jav had (which is close to what we have now).
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:51 am Post subject: |
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I do think he has more playoff value than Jav.
Kieff was a starter over Javale, and Kieff was mainly valuable for his 3 point shooting - if we face a team without elite athleticism at the 5, Marc will have value IF he can make and take more 3s and go to work in the post sometimes.
He has to step up his willingness to shoot. I do not expect off the ball plays to be great, but just be more assertive in shooting the 3, and some post up mismatches. We got to run some sets, where we utilize him in the post. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | I do think he has more playoff value than Jav.
Kieff was a starter over Javale, and Kieff was mainly valuable for his 3 point shooting - if we face a team without elite athleticism at the 5, Marc will have value IF he can make and take more 3s and go to work in the post sometimes.
He has to step up his willingness to shoot. I do not expect off the ball plays to be great, but just be more assertive in shooting the 3, and some post up mismatches. We got to run some sets, where we utilize him in the post. |
Right. But I'm saying he'll do the ceremonial 1/3rd Q "Jav" role in the playoffs. I don't see him finishing meaningful game. But that shows he has more value than Jav who rarely played at all in the playoffs.
I think losing Dwight is more painful.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: |
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For sure, which is why I was bummed when it happened. Rob made a mistake, he should have made signing Dwight a priority, instead he took the wait for us approach, which for a HOF guy, a proven role player champion, one of the greatest defenders ever at his position, I mean, a bit weird we took that approach. But we did have Trez and Klutch in the bag, so when you have a chance to get a 6MOTY big guy, and he is your main agents player, you gotta do that as well.
I am cool with how things end up, because I think the Lakers have shown they can still be elite defensively with what they have. And, for like the 1,000,000th time, it needs to be repeated. AD almost always closed as a 5, and played the majority of his playoff minutes at the 5.
What we need to do is evaluate if playing Trez at the 5 in the playoffs will be a Net+. In the RS it has been a Net+. We have to take the games coming up against elite playoff teams and see what Trez can do.
Gasol is just a situational starter in a playoff setting, unless he makes his 3s at a high clip. I can not see Vogel start him if he is playing as he is now. All we are doing now is buying time until the playoffs ..... When AD is our main 5. The main question is who is ADs backup. Gasol, Trez or Kieff. All 3 have strengths-weaknesses, and all 3 so far look worse than Dwight defensively-impact wise. But at the same time, all 3 are probably better than Dwight on offense. You gain in some areas, you lose in others.
Paint points, it starts with Caruso-Dennis-Bron-KCP etc. The perimeter guys have to stop the ball and not take any plays off. And then when you combine that with mobile bigs like AD, we can be the best paint protection team in the league as well. Frank Vogel is a defense first guy. I think he will know what rotation he needs to contain the paint points given up.
For example last night,, even against a very good paint attacking-paint touches team that had Sexton-Drummond. Come 4th Q when we rolled out AD-Bron-KCP-Schroder-Caruso. Pretty much we were able to play our defensive style and contain the paint points. We will just have to build a playoff series on that, if we keep the same talent. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Some of you need to chill the hell out! Gasol is not a "bum, he also is not untouchable to criticism.
The man has strengths and weaknesses. He has a limited role with the team. Discussing the positives and negatives over a long season is not a reason to have a hissy fit.
Some nights Gasol (as with most players) will have favorable matchups and results, other nights they might struggle. Discussing these issues "game by game" is kind of how you judge a man's impact on the game.
I think Gasol is a great addition and has a significant role in the overall start to the season. Limited but impactful. Just my opinion, but suggesting an alternative for those nights Gasol or any player have bad matchups, injuries or just not feeling it should be expected. Players can get outplayed, point is how do you minimize it for 100 game season. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm just happy we have a Gasol back on the Lakers again. 
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Some of you need to chill the hell out! Gasol is not a "bum, he also is not untouchable to criticism.
The man has strengths and weaknesses. He has a limited role with the team. Discussing the positives and negatives over a long season is not a reason to have a hissy fit.
Some nights Gasol (as with most players) will have favorable matchups and results, other nights they might struggle. Discussing these issues "game by game" is kind of how you judge a man's impact on the game.
I think Gasol is a great addition and has a significant role in the overall start to the season. Limited but impactful. Just my opinion, but suggesting an alternative for those nights Gasol or any player have bad matchups, injuries or just not feeling it should be expected. Players can get outplayed, point is how do you minimize it for 100 game season. |
Alternatives.
We have Anthony Davis that can play the 5 in spot minutes, we have 6th man of the year backup center Montrezl Harrell, we also have two additional centers that are on our inactive roster "just in case".
We have enough centers.
This idea that "Let's get a center that will play no minutes, unless Gasol needs rest/is being out played. That center won't be Trez or Davis though it will just be someone in free agency whom otherwise won't play." isn't really one that is productive.
You're basically saying you want a center that you'll only really utilize maybe once every 6 games and otherwise will get no playing time, or about as much playing time as the two inactive centers already on the roster, which is next to none. That center would also be taking minutes away from Harrell or Davis whom could just as easily slide into that position for the length of time it would be needed.
People keep saying "well we just need it just in case...for small moments here and there" but then they act like whomever would be doing it would be playing half the season at center, because then their argument becomes "but not Davis or Harrell.. we don't want Davis playing too many minutes at center, and Harrell isn't a starting center quality". Suddenly their argument goes from 'in a pinch' to 'majority of minutes'.
We have enough "backups" at the center position and no center in free agency is better than Davis or Harrell in terms of who'd get minutes while Gasol sits. And as stated, we have two backup centers currently on our inactive roster for those 'just in case JUST IN CASE' moments.
So there's really no point for it. We don't need 'another center'. We have three players capable of playing there already and two on the inactives. So it isn't necessary for a team that's one of the best in the league at rim protection and is number 1 defensively. Gasol has enough "alts". We also have enough "wings".
At this point, the way we're rolling and how good we are defensively, if we're replacing people, it's for 'upgrades' not for 'just in case there's another just in case' imo.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
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SPO200
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| We are going to sign a new center in the buyout market. I don't understand why are you so worried right now |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:24 am Post subject: |
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We'll be playing Embiid tomorrow.
Looking forward to seeing how Marc does against him.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | Some of you need to chill the hell out! Gasol is not a "bum, he also is not untouchable to criticism.
The man has strengths and weaknesses. He has a limited role with the team. Discussing the positives and negatives over a long season is not a reason to have a hissy fit.
Some nights Gasol (as with most players) will have favorable matchups and results, other nights they might struggle. Discussing these issues "game by game" is kind of how you judge a man's impact on the game.
I think Gasol is a great addition and has a significant role in the overall start to the season. Limited but impactful. Just my opinion, but suggesting an alternative for those nights Gasol or any player have bad matchups, injuries or just not feeling it should be expected. Players can get outplayed, point is how do you minimize it for 100 game season. |
Alternatives.
We have Anthony Davis that can play the 5 in spot minutes, we have 6th man of the year backup center Montrezl Harrell, we also have two additional centers that are on our inactive roster "just in case".
We have enough centers.
This idea that "Let's get a center that will play no minutes, unless Gasol needs rest/is being out played. That center won't be Trez or Davis though it will just be someone in free agency whom otherwise won't play." isn't really one that is productive.
You're basically saying you want a center that you'll only really utilize maybe once every 6 games and otherwise will get no playing time, or about as much playing time as the two inactive centers already on the roster, which is next to none. That center would also be taking minutes away from Harrell or Davis whom could just as easily slide into that position for the length of time it would be needed.
People keep saying "well we just need it just in case...for small moments here and there" but then they act like whomever would be doing it would be playing half the season at center, because then their argument becomes "but not Davis or Harrell.. we don't want Davis playing too many minutes at center, and Harrell isn't a starting center quality". Suddenly their argument goes from 'in a pinch' to 'majority of minutes'.
We have enough "backups" at the center position and no center in free agency is better than Davis or Harrell in terms of who'd get minutes while Gasol sits. And as stated, we have two backup centers currently on our inactive roster for those 'just in case JUST IN CASE' moments.
So there's really no point for it. We don't need 'another center'. We have three players capable of playing there already and two on the inactives. So it isn't necessary for a team that's one of the best in the league at rim protection and is number 1 defensively. Gasol has enough "alts". We also have enough "wings".
At this point, the way we're rolling and how good we are defensively, if we're replacing people, it's for 'upgrades' not for 'just in case there's another just in case' imo. |
Again, we shouldn't have AD playing too many regular season minutes at center. Save that wear and tear for the playoffs (same great formula as last year).
Trez/Kieff/Cacok are 6'7, 6'8. They fight admirably as way undersized centers. Kostas, not sure what to even call him but he's nowhere near ready.
We have a 36 year old center who looks overweight, and missed a bunch of games the past 2 seasons. Let's get a true 7 footer to realign everyone properly for the regular season.
Then, when the playoffs come, I'm fine with having more AD at center, etc.
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