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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:

<snip>
One of the dumbest things we could do is let a role player (allbeit a high quality one) dictate who starts. The Lakers culture is so great right now. I hope this report is baloney.


While I completely agree on your take for the playoffs:
I see us load-managing significantly earlier in the season to save LBJ/Gasol/AD - for age and injury risk both
I see us sacrificing regular season games (especially early on) so Vogel can experiment with lineups/combinations plus acclimate the new players, and to establish a bench identity.
I see us gradually transitioning to our playoff lineup later in the season.
I see us playing Trez a *lot* - he's young, he's a regular season warrior, he needs/demands minutes to justify his discounted contract, and he matches up just fine against 15-20 of the teams in the league.

Agreed with all, man. I'm just saying Trez can play a lot, even get starts when there are rests/injuries, but not if we are fully healthy on a game to game basis. I mean, it makes little sense to bring a big guy like Marc off the bench, when his most valued skillset is that he can a) defend elite 5s and b) spaces the floor out and is a great passer. Considering what we need around AD/Bron, Marc makes so much sense as as starter. We are talking just 15-20 minutes a night really.

I have no issues with AD/Harrell playing together, but IMO it should come after rotations kick in. Having AD defend elite 5s all season long just makes no sense after we proved the formula with AD being a 4 in the RS and sliding over to more 5 in the playoffs, works well.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:45 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
aiel wrote:
Montrezl is the one player I thought defended Davis the best and that is the reason I had concerns about beating the Clips in the playoffs. Now he is on our team, who does the clips have to defend Anthony?


I don’t know how does Ibaka do against Davis ?


Ibaka is a shell of his former self.


Today Ibaka is better than Trez at exactly 1 facet of the game...distance shooting.

3 years ago? It's a landslide for Ibaka.

Recovery D Today? Trez.
Rebounding Today? Trez.
Scoring Today? Trez.
Age Today? Trez.
Quality Minutes Today? Trez.
Desire To Be A Laker And Not Play Games Like KL? Trez.

Trez was a player I thought we had jo shot at...Rob built this team beautifully...anyone who used their freedom to go to the Yippers deserves what they get.

No way I'm forgetting that follow unfollow troll job Ibaka pulled.
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LeBronsPregameChalk
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:44 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
aiel wrote:
Montrezl is the one player I thought defended Davis the best and that is the reason I had concerns about beating the Clips in the playoffs. Now he is on our team, who does the clips have to defend Anthony?


I don’t know how does Ibaka do against Davis ?


Ibaka is a shell of his former self.


Today Ibaka is better than Trez at exactly 1 facet of the game...distance shooting.

3 years ago? It's a landslide for Ibaka.

Recovery D Today? Trez.
Rebounding Today? Trez.
Scoring Today? Trez.
Age Today? Trez.
Quality Minutes Today? Trez.
Desire To Be A Laker And Not Play Games Like KL? Trez.

Trez was a player I thought we had jo shot at...Rob built this team beautifully...anyone who used their freedom to go to the Yippers deserves what they get.

No way I'm forgetting that follow unfollow troll job Ibaka pulled.

Serge is 7' tall, Harrell is 6'7". Ibaka can legitimately play the 5 and offer rim protection, Harrell can't.

Serge is a slightly above-average free throw shooter (~76% for his career), Harrell is well below average (~64%). League average is usually around 73%).

Serge is a better rebounder. 14.3 TRB% for his career, Harrell is at 12.6% for his career (numbers more lopsided if you only look at recent numbers).

I would've loved Ibaka, so I would've preferred that we went that route since he was available at the same price. Harrell is a great guy too. I hardly think it's lopsided in Harrell's favor, they both have pros and cons.

I will say that the age difference does matter. Sometimes these guys drop off a cliff once they reach their early/mid 30's. That is a possibility with Ibaka.
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Kobe_Is_King13
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:09 am    Post subject:

LeBronsPregameChalk wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
lar9149 wrote:
aiel wrote:
Montrezl is the one player I thought defended Davis the best and that is the reason I had concerns about beating the Clips in the playoffs. Now he is on our team, who does the clips have to defend Anthony?


I don’t know how does Ibaka do against Davis ?


Ibaka is a shell of his former self.


Today Ibaka is better than Trez at exactly 1 facet of the game...distance shooting.

3 years ago? It's a landslide for Ibaka.

Recovery D Today? Trez.
Rebounding Today? Trez.
Scoring Today? Trez.
Age Today? Trez.
Quality Minutes Today? Trez.
Desire To Be A Laker And Not Play Games Like KL? Trez.

Trez was a player I thought we had jo shot at...Rob built this team beautifully...anyone who used their freedom to go to the Yippers deserves what they get.

No way I'm forgetting that follow unfollow troll job Ibaka pulled.

Serge is 7' tall, Harrell is 6'7". Ibaka can legitimately play the 5 and offer rim protection, Harrell can't.

Serge is a slightly above-average free throw shooter (~76% for his career), Harrell is well below average (~64%). League average is usually around 73%).

Serge is a better rebounder. 14.3 TRB% for his career, Harrell is at 12.6% for his career (numbers more lopsided if you only look at recent numbers).

I would've loved Ibaka, so I would've preferred that we went that route since he was available at the same price. Harrell is a great guy too. I hardly think it's lopsided in Harrell's favor, they both have pros and cons.

I will say that the age difference does matter. Sometimes these guys drop off a cliff once they reach their early/mid 30's. That is a possibility with Ibaka.


Harrell doesn't offer the traditional you'd see from a 7fter, but he does average more blocks than Ibaka and what doesn't get talked about enough is his ability to draw charges. His mix of being able to challenge players at the rim for blocks AND his ability to draw charges makes for surprisingly good, albeit it flawed, rim defense
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governator
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:15 am    Post subject:

Is anybody here saying when Montrezl was ready to commit for MLE $ that pelinka should’ve told him that we’re gonna wait instead of locking him up? Just to see if Ibaka would take that $... is this for real?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:16 am    Post subject:

Ibaka is overrated now

I wanted him for the Marc gasol role which was to get 20 min as our starting center but close with Davis at center

Marc isn’t as young but he’s just as smart, and now we have Harrell who’s an offensive force downlow to pair with gasol

That’s much better than my out of the loop desire for ibaka

Now Davis shouldn’t have to play any 5 during the regular season except for really spot minutes in closing moments

That’s huge. That keeps him both happy and rested

Lakers have something they haven’t had in forever which is proper 3 and 4 options

Absolutely huge. And you add a legit passer/ shooter at center who’s one of the smartest big men in the league

Good god
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AD23
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:20 am    Post subject:

Can't complain with either.
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:22 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Is anybody here saying when Montrezl was ready to commit for MLE $ that pelinka should’ve told him that we’re gonna wait instead of locking him up? Just to see if Ibaka would take that $... is this for real?


Ibaka was on that Kawhi ish, trying to string us along with his tweets and nonsense. Rob played that game already and said F that, good for him.
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StoicChalice392
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:31 am    Post subject:

Trez to a address media later today
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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:45 am    Post subject:

Since his playoff viability has been called into question, I just want to drop off these vids from last years playoffs against the best team of all time.




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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:57 am    Post subject:

I love this signing. I think most do too. Those who aren't too high on him had expectations to snag Ibaka. There's also maybe a sour taste because we didn't bring back Dwight. I say stop comparing Trez to those two. They each offer something different, and I think we'll all come around to appreciate what Trez brings (tenacity, effort, scoring, rebounding). Pure firepower off the bench. I don't put too much stock into his bubble performance. The Clips had chemistry issues and he had just lost his grandmother.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:02 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

I have no issues with AD/Harrell playing together, but IMO it should come after rotations kick in. Having AD defend elite 5s all season long just makes no sense after we proved the formula with AD being a 4 in the RS and sliding over to more 5 in the playoffs, works well.


This is a great point and I completely agree - we don't want AD banging with the physical 5's during the regular season.

Help me understand something though, why would "starting" really change things that much? I mean Gasol will get his 20 minutes regardless of whether he starts or not. And a good sub/rotation plan will assure that most/all of those minutes come against the opposing Big 5, who presumably plays 30+ minutes.
(All of what you say about the LBJ/AD maximization with Gasol can hold true, spread over 4 quarters of Gasol's minutes)
The remaining 10 minutes - so what if Trez defends the big 5 - at least during the regular season? There's an argument to be made that this is actually a positive to start out games - Trez is fast AND strong, the opposing front-line has to work hard to contain him; at the end it will be AD and/or Gasol that close anyways.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:16 am    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
governator wrote:
Is anybody here saying when Montrezl was ready to commit for MLE $ that pelinka should’ve told him that we’re gonna wait instead of locking him up? Just to see if Ibaka would take that $... is this for real?


Ibaka was on that Kawhi ish, trying to string us along with his tweets and nonsense. Rob played that game already and said F that, good for him.


I may have it wrong, but I thought the sequence was that the Lakers went to Serge first and were told "I'll get back to you." Having learned from the Kawhi debacle, the Lakers then jumped on Trezz.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
governator wrote:
Is anybody here saying when Montrezl was ready to commit for MLE $ that pelinka should’ve told him that we’re gonna wait instead of locking him up? Just to see if Ibaka would take that $... is this for real?


Ibaka was on that Kawhi ish, trying to string us along with his tweets and nonsense. Rob played that game already and said F that, good for him.


I may have it wrong, but I thought the sequence was that the Lakers went to Serge first and were told "I'll get back to you." Having learned from the Kawhi debacle, the Lakers then jumped on Trezz.


I don't blame the Lakers for getting nervous if that is true.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:

I have no issues with AD/Harrell playing together, but IMO it should come after rotations kick in. Having AD defend elite 5s all season long just makes no sense after we proved the formula with AD being a 4 in the RS and sliding over to more 5 in the playoffs, works well.


This is a great point and I completely agree - we don't want AD banging with the physical 5's during the regular season.

Help me understand something though, why would "starting" really change things that much? I mean Gasol will get his 20 minutes regardless of whether he starts or not. And a good sub/rotation plan will assure that most/all of those minutes come against the opposing Big 5, who presumably plays 30+ minutes.
(All of what you say about the LBJ/AD maximization with Gasol can hold true, spread over 4 quarters of Gasol's minutes)
The remaining 10 minutes - so what if Trez defends the big 5 - at least during the regular season? There's an argument to be made that this is actually a positive to start out games - Trez is fast AND strong, the opposing front-line has to work hard to contain him; at the end it will be AD and/or Gasol that close anyways.

Likely AD would take the bigger players if Trez started next to him. That is just the mindset of this team, they take on challenges. If AD saw that Trez was undersized, I think just in their nature to take the challenge on himself, as a great defender. You rarely see a guy with the size of AD, the talent he has on D, to pass up defending guys his size for a teammate who is 6ft7 to defend them. Even so, just starting a game out being pushed around inside, sends the wrong physical message, IMO.

Then you factor the momentum of the game. Gasol plays at a bit slower pace, he fits a slower halfcourt starting lineup more than he would a fastbreaking high tempo 2nd unit. I think when Trez enters the game with Schroder, you wanna speed the game up and become more aggressive with pushing the ball. When those 2 enter the game, you kinda want AD-Bron resting and letting Trez-Schro and maybe Kuz free reign to attack ... and then bring back AD and Bron. Just my .02
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:05 am    Post subject:

Basically last year Frank had to stagger Bron and AD with the 2nd unit. He rarely unless Rondo was lights on, would let both Bron and AD sit. So he would stagger one with the 2nd unit. What I am saying is when you bring in Trez and Schro, you can let them be the 1-2 punch with Kuz as the 3rd option and some defensive quality role guys like Caruso-Wesley-KCP-Kieff around them, and now you have a 2nd unit that does not need Bron or AD to carry them. So then you bring back the big 2 and pâir them with Trez/Schro who are in a flow and have a feel for the game, and man if it works on D with that group, the league will have a lot of problems!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:16 pm    Post subject:

A lot of people around the league are bashing Trez as if he was the reason for losing to Denver, when really it was Kawhi and PG13 who choked big time in game 7.

I think this year is going to be a redemption moment for Trez and he will prove a lot of people wrong. And for our Team we needed someone like that who has a big chip on his shoulder.

Can't wait for the matchup against the Clippers. You can expect Trez to hard foul Kawhi if he tries to take it in and give no (bleep).
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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Montrezl Harrell said on his decision to join the Lakers that it was "a business decision" and that he is with "a team that wanted me." He said things "happened fairly quickly." He reiterated that the Lakers made him felt wanted, were a team "that were highly on me."


Quote:
When asked if he felt Clippers wanted to re-sign him, Montrezl Harrell said, "Apparently not, if I'm on the other side."


Quote:
Montrezl Harrell on signing with the Lakers: "Honestly, it was a business decision. I felt it was the right decision for me. ... I'm definitely going to be with a team that wanted me and with a group of guys I feel I'm going to gravitate well to and build chemistry fast."

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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
"We look at our agency as a family in general." - Montrezl Harrell on Klutch, his relationship with LeBron and AD.


Quote:
Montrezl Harrell on his outlook with the Lakers: "I’m just trying to do anything I can to try and help them get back to that same place. Everything I can to help (them) repeat."

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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:42 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Montrezl Harrell said Rob Pelinka and Frank Vogel were on the phone together to relay their excitement over the signing.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Thanks for the quotes Ocho. Great stuff!
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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Montrezl Harrell on what his role with the Lakers will be: "Whatever it takes to win. That is literally what I see my role is."


Quote:
Harrell said he's not going to pay too much attention to if the Lakers are the favorites or not, or what the outside perception is of them, because the Clippers were the favorites last year.


Quote:
"Me myself, I still look at me as an underdog in this game." - Montrezl Harrell

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ocho
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Montrezl Harrell isn't too concerned about the quick turnaround for the 2020-21 season.

"I don't really take a break anyway. If it wasn't for COVID, I would probably be playing in the Drew League or camps."

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject:

A couple of things.

That he stated so much that the Lakers clearly wanted and valued him lends a little bit of credence to the idea that the Lakers promised him a large role.

It also implies that he wasn't offered much at the Clippers so I don't know why Pat was so surprised on twitter
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crazylakerfan001
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:54 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
A couple of things.

That he stated so much that the Lakers clearly wanted and valued him lends a little bit of credence to the idea that the Lakers promised him a large role.

It also implies that he wasn't offered much at the Clippers so I don't know why Pat was so surprised on twitter


Maybe it was like a Trevor Ariza thing where he wanted more money from the Clippers, who weren't willing to give him more than the MLE, so decided to stick it to them.
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