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cannga11
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
He's not going to jump any higher or grow any taller so I don't know what else Vogel could do to improve his defense. There's only so much he could do as a defender when someone is driving towards the basket. He has put in a lot of effort to quickly move his feet and take charges but as I've been saying taking charges is nothing like blocking/contesting shot. Anyone can take charges.

What I like about him is he does have good trade value so he could be very valuable trade bait in the future. Trade him for a serviceable big whenever one was available because we already have Morris as another backup big.


Being in the right place, making the correct rotation and beating the defender to the spot are all more effective than blocking shots. Trez has a higher career block rate than Draymond Green - it's the other stuff that made Dray a DPOY.


Agreed. He's still late for some rotations. "Anticipation" is behind the curve and surprising for such a high motor and aggressive player with good bb IQ.

He is 2 inches taller than Draymond Green. He won't be a great shot blocker, but could be a great defender.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:30 pm    Post subject:

cannga11 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
He's not going to jump any higher or grow any taller so I don't know what else Vogel could do to improve his defense. There's only so much he could do as a defender when someone is driving towards the basket. He has put in a lot of effort to quickly move his feet and take charges but as I've been saying taking charges is nothing like blocking/contesting shot. Anyone can take charges.

What I like about him is he does have good trade value so he could be very valuable trade bait in the future. Trade him for a serviceable big whenever one was available because we already have Morris as another backup big.


Being in the right place, making the correct rotation and beating the defender to the spot are all more effective than blocking shots. Trez has a higher career block rate than Draymond Green - it's the other stuff that made Dray a DPOY.


Agreed. He's still late for some rotations. "Anticipation" is behind the curve and surprising for such a high motor and aggressive player with good bb IQ.

He is 2 inches taller than Draymond Green. He won't be a great shot blocker, but could be a great defender.


Yeah he looks like he should be a good defender, not necessarily the rim protector Dwight or Javale was, but a defender that can stay on the floor in crunch time because he’s agile enough to rotate onto any player. He plays hard so the effort is there, he just doesn’t know how to play defense yet. That’s what I’m hoping the coaching staff can work with him on.

If anything Rich Paul should also be on him for the at rather than offensive touches, as it was his defense that probably drove his value down this past offseason.
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:07 pm    Post subject:

Trezz will get it going. Major decline in USAGE % right now. 26% last year, 18% this year.

I will say this is why it didnt make sense for Trezz to decline 80M if he really did that to come here. So many guys will have to sacrifice numbers here with high usage guys like Bron/AD/Schroder. That will leave guys like Kuz, Trezz, THT often times on the outside looking in. Put them on a lesser team and all 3 would be putting up near 20 a game.
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governator
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Trez-Kuzma-Morris occupied the same role, back up bigs, Kuz and Morris can stretch too but Trez is a beast in the paint, I think the mins prob not gonna change much in reg season
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Gasol and Harrell give more to this team as our center and backup center together than Dwight and McGee did with us.
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drae
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:22 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Gasol and Harrell give more to this team as our center and backup center together than Dwight and McGee did with us.


I think a lot of people forget that Dwight and McGee were played off the court in every Playoff series except the Nuggets.

We do have defense issues atm but a lot of that is also because we're missing Danny Green who while can't hit shots was a great team defense guy.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Gasol and Harrell give more to this team as our center and backup center together than Dwight and McGee did with us.


No doubt. But I still would like one backup 7 footer too. Not mutually exclusive to me.
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ahaider
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:28 pm    Post subject:

I don't really understand the pushback on Harrell.

He's undoubtedly better than Mcgee, who beyond the shot blocking has such poor BBIQ and scoring ability that he's pretty much unplayable most of the game.

Let's talk about Dwight. He's not even averaging 14 minutes a game for the 76ers. While he's a better shot blocker, I think people underrate Dwight's age. While he had a nice postseason for us, I really think Dwight has shown some serious decline. If the opponent has a stretch 5, he's pretty much unplayable unless it's Jokic.

Harrell clearly provides a much greater offensive presence than any of those other players outlined. He also doesn't clog the lane and result in possibly the worst half court offense in the league as we had last season.

I need 35 games of the season before I can critique Montrez. He has the highest learning curve of any player on our team.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:31 pm    Post subject:

He’ll get better. He’s already one of the best charge takers in the league so he does know how to rotate and is willing to sacrifice his body.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:29 pm    Post subject:

He changed the game around when Vogel put him in the game when the Grizzles went on there run
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:32 pm    Post subject:

He impacted the game- magic Johnson
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:34 pm    Post subject:

He was the non-LebronAD player of the game. Said so in the thread. He was vital, his energy. The teams definitely are trying to pick on Trez, but he played with fire. If he brings this sort of fire in the playoffs, people will love him. Just got to keep the minutes in check.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:19 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
He was the non-LebronAD player of the game. Said so in the thread. He was vital, his energy. The teams definitely are trying to pick on Trez, but he played with fire. If he brings this sort of fire in the playoffs, people will love him. Just got to keep the minutes in check.


No doubt. Imo his best overall game.

Memphis was missing Morant, but he still showed some good things with positioning and coverages on defense.
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:36 am    Post subject:

It really is a non-factor but against maybe 5 teams with elite post centers. I'll take that second wave scoring and double-doubles most night, and ride it out.
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:59 pm    Post subject:

Trez had this response to the uptick in his face-up time this season. Sounds like he's happy

https://twitter.com/AlexmRegla/status/1346202670814531584
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:25 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Trez had this response to the uptick in his face-up time this season. Sounds like he's happy

https://twitter.com/AlexmRegla/status/1346202670814531584


It's kind of the "star in your role" philosophy of Vogel's. Don't do something that you aren't going to be able to shine in.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:34 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
drae wrote:
Trez had this response to the uptick in his face-up time this season. Sounds like he's happy

https://twitter.com/AlexmRegla/status/1346202670814531584


It's kind of the "star in your role" philosophy of Vogel's. Don't do something that you aren't going to be able to shine in.


Definitely, here is the youtube link. Around 3 minutes, he says how Laker basketball is...

when talking about other teams, it something like "its got be 3's, free throws or layups"

"its not like that over here, they play to style of your game".."we play basketball over here, it is a free flowing game"

I heard Kobe say this about Laker basketball. Playing to player's strengths. Looks like they are keeping to that philosphy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upCE8KR_hvM&t=15s
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pio2u
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject:

I love Trez's consistency. He brings it every game, every play. What you see is what you get, warts and all.
He's practically a walking double-double machine.
Last game was another typical night for him. He finished with 16 points on 7-11 shooting (2-2 from the line), 9 rebs (4 offensive), 2 steals, 1 turnover, 2 fouls (21 minutes), +12.
      Montrezl Harrell finding more freedom across the hallway
https://www.latimes.com/sports/newsletter/2021-01-05/lakers-newsletter-montrezl-harrell-lakers
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:59 pm    Post subject:

His effort is not the issue. It is his fit. I do not see how he has value over playing Kieff or Kuz next to AD in a playoff setting. The boards and interior play are great, but teams can not stop us when AD-Bron have good floor spacing and also on D - we have more perimeter flexibility when we use Kieff-Kuz next to AD.

Gonna be tough for Trez to get more minutes than Dwight did, IMO.

He is one of the few guys though, that even when he is non-impact or does not play well, you can not be upset at. He gives it his all, and is still learning the system.
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oaktown_dimond
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:40 am    Post subject:

Frank is good at designing a system to each player's strengths... Rather than force a player to adapt to a system.

With that said it would greatly benefit Trez to become a somewhat decent 3 point threat. Not even Keif level, but at least a level of proficiency the opposing team has to take into account.

Trez is a PF or SF without the range.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:57 am    Post subject:

Looking pretty likely that Trezz is a one year signing. Unless his value tanks that he picks up his MLE level option, and tries to get Early Bird rights for the 2022 offseason.
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:15 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Looking pretty likely that Trezz is a one year signing. Unless his value tanks that he picks up his MLE level option, and tries to get Early Bird rights for the 2022 offseason.


hope Kuzma is more than ready to be this 6th man/back up big/stretch big/defending wing role
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
His effort is not the issue. It is his fit. I do not see how he has value over playing Kieff or Kuz next to AD in a playoff setting. The boards and interior play are great, but teams can not stop us when AD-Bron have good floor spacing and also on D - we have more perimeter flexibility when we use Kieff-Kuz next to AD.

Gonna be tough for Trez to get more minutes than Dwight did, IMO.

He is one of the few guys though, that even when he is non-impact or does not play well, you can not be upset at. He gives it his all, and is still learning the system.


By February, Trez will be our #3 scorer. We haven't set a rotation yet - tough to do with AC & KCP out - so roles are still evolving.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
He's not going to jump any higher or grow any taller so I don't know what else Vogel could do to improve his defense. There's only so much he could do as a defender when someone is driving towards the basket. He has put in a lot of effort to quickly move his feet and take charges but as I've been saying taking charges is nothing like blocking/contesting shot. Anyone can take charges.

What I like about him is he does have good trade value so he could be very valuable trade bait in the future. Trade him for a serviceable big whenever one was available because we already have Morris as another backup big.


Being in the right place, making the correct rotation and beating the defender to the spot are all more effective than blocking shots. Trez has a higher career block rate than Draymond Green - it's the other stuff that made Dray a DPOY.


Maybe Vogel could turn him into Green if given enough time but we're a win now team. We're not a development team. I'm more interested in having a guy who could help with rim protection now so that we wouldn't have to rely on AD so much.


Nah, don't think so. Can't turn him into Green. Green has a defensive IQ on another level.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:39 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Looking pretty likely that Trezz is a one year signing. Unless his value tanks that he picks up his MLE level option, and tries to get Early Bird rights for the 2022 offseason.


hope Kuzma is more than ready to be this 6th man/back up big/stretch big/defending wing role


I don't consider Kuz as a "big." He's more of a wing/spot up shooter to me.
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