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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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 Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer team, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
Yeah
I don’t know what that means.
Sounds like you’re saying the school should guarantee that he doesn’t turn violent.
Basically you saw that he was suspended before and now you’re blaming the school for his actions.
Not sure what reform means to you or to the school. They can’t predict the future.
The only way to guarantee he doesn’t attack the ref and the school doesn’t get blamed is to suspend him permanently from all sports after the first offense. |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
Yeah
I don’t know what that means.
Sounds like you’re saying the school should guarantee that he doesn’t turn violent.
Basically you saw that he was suspended before and now you’re blaming the school for his actions.
Not sure what reform means to you or to the school. They can’t predict the future.
The only way to guarantee he doesn’t attack the ref and the school doesn’t get blamed is to suspend him permanently from all sports after the first offense. |
The school knew what type of person he had when he experienced the same behavioral problems playing another sport. Heck, they kicked him off the team for that infraction. But because he was probably one of their best athletes they let him skate on by, and now they got what they deserved because they knew what kind of hothead they had on their team. Sadly, it is also an indictment on the school since there is a lack of control in their athletic program. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
Yeah
I don’t know what that means.
Sounds like you’re saying the school should guarantee that he doesn’t turn violent.
Basically you saw that he was suspended before and now you’re blaming the school for his actions.
Not sure what reform means to you or to the school. They can’t predict the future.
The only way to guarantee he doesn’t attack the ref and the school doesn’t get blamed is to suspend him permanently from all sports after the first offense. |
The school knew what type of person he had when he experienced the same behavioral problems playing another sport. Heck, they kicked him off the team for that infraction. But because he was probably one of their best athletes they let him skate on by, and now they got what they deserved because they knew what kind of hothead they had on their team. Sadly, it is also an indictment on the school since there is a lack of control in their athletic program. |
And we circle back to the beginning of where we started...
I said, are you advocating that the school permanently ban students from all sports after 1 offense?
Are you saying that other students get permanently banned from participating in any sport (after 1 offense) but because this player was a star player, he didn’t get permanently banned? |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
Yeah
I don’t know what that means.
Sounds like you’re saying the school should guarantee that he doesn’t turn violent.
Basically you saw that he was suspended before and now you’re blaming the school for his actions.
Not sure what reform means to you or to the school. They can’t predict the future.
The only way to guarantee he doesn’t attack the ref and the school doesn’t get blamed is to suspend him permanently from all sports after the first offense. |
The school knew what type of person he had when he experienced the same behavioral problems playing another sport. Heck, they kicked him off the team for that infraction. But because he was probably one of their best athletes they let him skate on by, and now they got what they deserved because they knew what kind of hothead they had on their team. Sadly, it is also an indictment on the school since there is a lack of control in their athletic program. |
And we circle back to the beginning of where we started...
I said, are you advocating that the school permanently ban students from all sports after 1 offense?
Are you saying that other students get permanently banned from participating in any sport (after 1 offense) but because this player was a star player, he didn’t get permanently banned?
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I'm saying the school did a poor job of implementing discipline because he repeated the same behavior, and in this case, the school got penalized as well because they enabled his bad behavior. Your type of thinking is that the kid should get another chance despite what he did the first time. My thinking is that there is a sliding scale of punishment for the most egregious behaviors, some type of behaviors like what the kid did the first time should've been dealt better so he wouldn't repeat the same offense. But since the school did such a poor job he learned nothing and repeated the same behavior except this time on the football team. As far as the kid getting permabanned on the first offense, yes it should have been done if the behavior was serious enough that he would be a danger to the people in the field of play. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | I'm saying the school did a poor job of implementing discipline because he repeated the same behavior, and in this case, the school got penalized as well because they enabled his bad behavior. Your type of thinking is that the kid should get another chance despite what he did the first time. My thinking is that there is a sliding scale of punishment for the most egregious behaviors, some type of behaviors like what the kid did the first time should've been dealt better so he wouldn't repeat the same offense. But since the school did such a poor job he learned nothing and repeated the same behavior except this time on the football team. As far as the kid getting permabanned on the first offense, yes it should have been done if the behavior was serious enough that he would be a danger to the people in the field of play. |
You’re avoiding the question. Should the school have permanently banned him from all sports when he got kicked off of the soccer team?
You seem to be advocating and implying it, but somehow unwilling to put a yes to it...
Also, can you tell me exactly what he did the first time to get kicked off the soccer team?
Can you give me one example of any governing body that permanently bans players after 1 offense? You blame the school but are there any other programs out there that actually have done what you are advocating? |
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angrypuppy
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32752
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
Yeah
I don’t know what that means.
Sounds like you’re saying the school should guarantee that he doesn’t turn violent.
Basically you saw that he was suspended before and now you’re blaming the school for his actions.
Not sure what reform means to you or to the school. They can’t predict the future.
The only way to guarantee he doesn’t attack the ref and the school doesn’t get blamed is to suspend him permanently from all sports after the first offense. |
The school knew what type of person he had when he experienced the same behavioral problems playing another sport. Heck, they kicked him off the team for that infraction. But because he was probably one of their best athletes they let him skate on by, and now they got what they deserved because they knew what kind of hothead they had on their team. Sadly, it is also an indictment on the school since there is a lack of control in their athletic program. |
And we circle back to the beginning of where we started...
I said, are you advocating that the school permanently ban students from all sports after 1 offense?
Are you saying that other students get permanently banned from participating in any sport (after 1 offense) but because this player was a star player, he didn’t get permanently banned?
|
I'm saying the school did a poor job of implementing discipline because he repeated the same behavior, and in this case, the school got penalized as well because they enabled his bad behavior. Your type of thinking is that the kid should get another chance despite what he did the first time. My thinking is that there is a sliding scale of punishment for the most egregious behaviors, some type of behaviors like what the kid did the first time should've been dealt better so he wouldn't repeat the same offense. But since the school did such a poor job he learned nothing and repeated the same behavior except this time on the football team. As far as the kid getting permabanned on the first offense, yes it should have been done if the behavior was serious enough that he would be a danger to the people in the field of play. |
You’re avoiding the question. Should the school have permanently banned him from all sports when he got kicked off of the soccer team?
You seem to be advocating and implying it, but somehow unwilling to put a yes to it...
Also, can you tell me exactly what he did the first time to get kicked off the soccer team? |
I would say no, but not kicking him off puts a greater burden on the head coach and on the members of the team in question. The coach must take into account the previous transgression and be proactive. The head coach and the team has to accept the responsibility that the player, star or not, may jeopardize a game or season based on his selfish lack of discipline. This means the head coach should tally the team captains (if not the entire team) as to whether the player in question should be allowed to join the team.
It has been a zillion years, but I'm sure that's the way we would have played it at "Home of Scholars and Champions". |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I was all for charges being brought against the kid, and he should be expelled from school for the remainder if the year. I am not sure I understand or support the entire team being disqualified from the playoffs. |
Unfortunately this wasn't the first time the kid got kicked off a team for unsportsmanlike conduct. Apparently he was on the soccer team and got kicked off the team as well last year. The school gave him another chance and now their entire team is disqualified. They should've had better controls on how they manage their athletes. |
Why blame the school? |
The school knew he had discipline problems and still let him on the football team. |
Basically you’re saying whatever caused him to be kicked off the soccer tea
m, he should have been permanently banned from participating in sports?
Basically 1 strike and you’re out? |
I'm saying he should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed. |
Yeah
I don’t know what that means.
Sounds like you’re saying the school should guarantee that he doesn’t turn violent.
Basically you saw that he was suspended before and now you’re blaming the school for his actions.
Not sure what reform means to you or to the school. They can’t predict the future.
The only way to guarantee he doesn’t attack the ref and the school doesn’t get blamed is to suspend him permanently from all sports after the first offense. |
The school knew what type of person he had when he experienced the same behavioral problems playing another sport. Heck, they kicked him off the team for that infraction. But because he was probably one of their best athletes they let him skate on by, and now they got what they deserved because they knew what kind of hothead they had on their team. Sadly, it is also an indictment on the school since there is a lack of control in their athletic program. |
And we circle back to the beginning of where we started...
I said, are you advocating that the school permanently ban students from all sports after 1 offense?
Are you saying that other students get permanently banned from participating in any sport (after 1 offense) but because this player was a star player, he didn’t get permanently banned?
|
I'm saying the school did a poor job of implementing discipline because he repeated the same behavior, and in this case, the school got penalized as well because they enabled his bad behavior. Your type of thinking is that the kid should get another chance despite what he did the first time. My thinking is that there is a sliding scale of punishment for the most egregious behaviors, some type of behaviors like what the kid did the first time should've been dealt better so he wouldn't repeat the same offense. But since the school did such a poor job he learned nothing and repeated the same behavior except this time on the football team. As far as the kid getting permabanned on the first offense, yes it should have been done if the behavior was serious enough that he would be a danger to the people in the field of play. |
You’re avoiding the question. Should the school have permanently banned him from all sports when he got kicked off of the soccer team?
You seem to be advocating and implying it, but somehow unwilling to put a yes to it... |
Nope, I know where you are getting at. You are trying to box me in and I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction. Obviously some bad behaviors don't deserve a second chance no matter how you might want to give the kid a chance for redemption. Imagine if the kid decides to sucker punch the ref if a call doesn't go their way....pretty much any behavior where the person assaults an official, I would kick them off the team and not let them back into any school sport for a period of time or until the kid demonstrates remorse and been sufficiently punished. I would imagine this was the case, the kid was a star athlete and the pride of the school and had parents or coaches who enabled his bad behavior, who couldn't say no to the kid, thus leading the kid to think he was invincible, special and above any type of punishment. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Nope, I know where you are getting at. You are trying to box me in and I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction. Obviously some bad behaviors don't deserve a second chance no matter how you might want to give the kid a chance for redemption. Imagine if the kid decides to sucker punch the ref if a call doesn't go their way....pretty much any behavior where the person assaults an official, I would kick them off the team and not let them back into any school sport for a period of time or until the kid demonstrates remorse and been sufficiently punished. I would imagine this was the case, the kid was a star athlete and the pride of the school and had parents or coaches who enabled his bad behavior, who couldn't say no to the kid, thus leading the kid to think he was invincible, special and above any type of punishment. |
Then I have no idea what exactly you are arguing then. You blame the school for allowing him to play football after being kicked off the soccer team.
You seem to be advocating that the schiool not let him play any other sport after what he did on the soccer team.
That sounds to me like a permanent ban from participating in any other sport.
Yet, you are unwilling to say that’s what you want.
But all your replies seems to suggest that’s what you want.
So, I have no idea what you want. It really does seem like you’re saying he shouldn’t have been allowed to play football? |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.themonitor.com/2020/12/03/bittersweet-bobcats-beat-bears-6a-playoff-berth-lose-star-defender/
| Quote: | | Duron was suspended for the remainder of the 2019-20 soccer season after a similar incident occurred during a match on the pitch last year against crosstown rival Edinburg Vela. |
The article referenced an incident which happened last year when he was on the soccer team. (the school most likely knows exactly what happened but kept it under wraps). Were they purposely being vague to avoid the kid getting fully punished so that he could stay on the wrestling and football teams? Either way the kid didn't learn anything and demonstrated his bad behavior this time in front of a much larger audience. The consequence this time was that this incident was recorded by a large audience and the school district had no choice but to punish the school as well to hold them accountable. |
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lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38771
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Nope, I know where you are getting at. You are trying to box me in and I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction. Obviously some bad behaviors don't deserve a second chance no matter how you might want to give the kid a chance for redemption. Imagine if the kid decides to sucker punch the ref if a call doesn't go their way....pretty much any behavior where the person assaults an official, I would kick them off the team and not let them back into any school sport for a period of time or until the kid demonstrates remorse and been sufficiently punished. I would imagine this was the case, the kid was a star athlete and the pride of the school and had parents or coaches who enabled his bad behavior, who couldn't say no to the kid, thus leading the kid to think he was invincible, special and above any type of punishment. |
Then I have no idea what exactly you are arguing then. You blame the school for allowing him to play football after being kicked off the soccer team.
You seem to be advocating that the schiool not let him play any other sport after what he did on the soccer team.
That sounds to me like a permanent ban from participating in any other sport.
Yet, you are unwilling to say that’s what you want.
But all your replies seems to suggest that’s what you want.
So, I have no idea what you want. It really does seem like you’re saying he shouldn’t have been allowed to play football? |
Nope you seem to be giving a pass to the kid for his bad behavior. The kid is not above the law, nor should he be. Him playing another sport shouldn't wipe his slate clean. If he has demonstrated his lack of sportsmanship by assaulting any official on the soccer field, I would be wary of this person fixing his behavioral problems just because he put on some football pads. In any case the school's job was to discipline the kid to prevent another similar occurrence from happening and they failed. |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | https://www.themonitor.com/2020/12/03/bittersweet-bobcats-beat-bears-6a-playoff-berth-lose-star-defender/
| Quote: | | Duron was suspended for the remainder of the 2019-20 soccer season after a similar incident occurred during a match on the pitch last year against crosstown rival Edinburg Vela. |
The article referenced an incident which happened last year when he was on the soccer team. (the school most likely knows exactly what happened but kept it under wraps). Were they purposely being vague to avoid the kid getting fully punished so that he could stay on the wrestling and football teams? Either way the kid didn't learn anything and demonstrated his bad behavior this time in front of a much larger audience. The consequence this time was that this incident was recorded by a large audience and the school district had no choice but to punish the school as well to hold them accountable. |
Yup
That’s all the info that’s out there. Something happened on the soccer team last year... |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Nope, I know where you are getting at. You are trying to box me in and I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction. Obviously some bad behaviors don't deserve a second chance no matter how you might want to give the kid a chance for redemption. Imagine if the kid decides to sucker punch the ref if a call doesn't go their way....pretty much any behavior where the person assaults an official, I would kick them off the team and not let them back into any school sport for a period of time or until the kid demonstrates remorse and been sufficiently punished. I would imagine this was the case, the kid was a star athlete and the pride of the school and had parents or coaches who enabled his bad behavior, who couldn't say no to the kid, thus leading the kid to think he was invincible, special and above any type of punishment. |
Then I have no idea what exactly you are arguing then. You blame the school for allowing him to play football after being kicked off the soccer team.
You seem to be advocating that the schiool not let him play any other sport after what he did on the soccer team.
That sounds to me like a permanent ban from participating in any other sport.
Yet, you are unwilling to say that’s what you want.
But all your replies seems to suggest that’s what you want.
So, I have no idea what you want. It really does seem like you’re saying he shouldn’t have been allowed to play football? |
Nope you seem to be giving a pass to the kid for his bad behavior. The kid is not above the law, nor should he be. Him playing another sport shouldn't wipe his slate clean. If he has demonstrated his lack of sportsmanship by assaulting any official on the soccer field, I would be wary of this person fixing his behavioral problems just because he put on some football pads. In any case the school's job was to discipline the kid to prevent another similar occurrence from happening and they failed. |
It’s so weird.
You don’t want to give a 2nd chance but you don’t want to stand up and say permanently ban him...
Isn’t the definition of a permanent ban = no more chances? |
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Lucky_Shot
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 5140
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | It’s so weird.
You don’t want to give a 2nd chance but you don’t want to stand up and say permanently ban him...
Isn’t the definition of a permanent ban = no more chances? |
lakersken80 said "He should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed."
You responded with you don't know what that means... It means exactly what he wrote. I find it weird that you wont accept what the man said and instead keep telling him what he actually means... Just my point of view |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | It’s so weird.
You don’t want to give a 2nd chance but you don’t want to stand up and say permanently ban him...
Isn’t the definition of a permanent ban = no more chances? |
lakersken80 said "He should not be on the team unless he shows that he is reformed."
You responded with you don't know what that means... It means exactly what he wrote. I find it weird that you wont accept what the man said and instead keep telling him what he actually means... Just my point of view |
I appreciate your view.
Let me clarify.
This is the only info that we have on this matter:
1) He was kicked off the soccer team last year
2) He hit a ref this year playing football.
That’s the only info we know so far. With this info, Lakersken has passed judgment on the school being at fault. He does not know what happened on the soccer team last year. He has already determined that the school is at fault with that little bit of info.
Saying he needs to show “reform” is so vague (due to lack of info) that I don’t know what that means. How does he know he hasn’t shown reform? What does showing reform mean when he has already determined the school is at fault? Unless he’s saying the player has not shown enough reform? And again, how does he know? He has zero info on how much reform the player has shown so the statement has zero meaning.
Also, he continually says no 2nd chances. He repeatedly has said no 2nd chances. I asked for clarity on what no 2nd chances mean? He even said I was the type to give such a player 2nd chances. Doesn’t that sound like a permanent ban?
If the school is at fault for allowing him to play football, doesn’t that mean that he wanted the school to ban the guy from playing sports? At least ban him this year?
What am I missing???
Also, I think he was at least a 3 sport athlete: soccer, football, wrestling. What Lakersken is advocating is that if you get kicked off of 1 team (soccer) you should be kicked off of all the other teams (until you show reform).
I don’t know any school’s that actually have that policy. You?
If no school’s have that policy, then is it fair to blame this one school for not having that policy? |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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The right thing to do would be to act consistently, and since this type of Ref attack is nothing new to Texas high school football,. It's fairly simple to look at how the UIL handled the other instances and then treat the case accordingly. A few years ago a San Antonio football player was told to blindsided a ref by an assistant coach after a call against him. He was suspended,. The coach was charged with assault, and 2 years later the UIL reinstated the player citing it's desire for the spirit of forgiveness. Just like the current instance, the video of the incident made its rounds on YouTube, and folks from all over chimed in with their opinions. As is generally the case, few follow up on the ultimate outcome, so here it is;
[quote]A Texas high school football player who blindsided an official during a game in the 2015 .season has been reinstated for his senior season in 2017, a state committee ruled Tuesday.
San Antonio John Jay High School player Victor Rojas had been suspended indefinitely by the University Interscholastic League, the state's governing body for high school activities, since Sept. 4, 2015, when as a sophomore he and then-senior Michael Moreno hit unsuspecting official Robert Watts from behind during a football game against Marble Falls.
“The UIL ruled in the direction of forgiveness,” John Jay football coach Gary Gutierrez said (via the San Antonio Express-News). “I think when you’re in the kid business, you always feel good about a second chance.”
The attack garnered national attention, and video of the incident went viral.[/quote]
[url]https://www.sportingnews.com/us/other-sports/news/texas-hs-football-player-who-attacked-ref-ruled-eligible-for-senior-season/xzev3eo8dmzt1sz441zbk5d5s[/url]
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C M B
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 19861
Location: Prarie & Manchester, high above the western sideline
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't go for the knees or the face. Just a nice, clean, hit by a Texas high school football grug.
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16118
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | The right thing to do would be to act consistently, and since this type of Ref attack is nothing new to Texas high school football,. It's fairly simple to look at how the UIL handled the other instances and then treat the case accordingly. |
Yup.
| Quote: | A few years ago a San Antonio football player was told to blindsided a ref by an assistant coach after a call against him. He was suspended,. The coach was charged with assault, and 2 years later the UIL reinstated the player citing it's desire for the spirit of forgiveness. Just like the current instance, the video of the incident made its rounds on YouTube, and folks from all over chimed in with their opinions. As is generally the case, few follow up on the ultimate outcome, so here it is;
| Quote: | A Texas high school football player who blindsided an official during a game in the 2015 .season has been reinstated for his senior season in 2017, a state committee ruled Tuesday.
San Antonio John Jay High School player Victor Rojas had been suspended indefinitely by the University Interscholastic League, the state's governing body for high school activities, since Sept. 4, 2015, when as a sophomore he and then-senior Michael Moreno hit unsuspecting official Robert Watts from behind during a football game against Marble Falls.
“The UIL ruled in the direction of forgiveness,” John Jay football coach Gary Gutierrez said (via the San Antonio Express-News). “I think when you’re in the kid business, you always feel good about a second chance.”
The attack garnered national attention, and video of the incident went viral. |
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/other-sports/news/texas-hs-football-player-who-attacked-ref-ruled-eligible-for-senior-season/xzev3eo8dmzt1sz441zbk5d5s |
The thing is, we don’t know what happened last year that got him kicked off the soccer team. All we know is it’s described as a “similar incident”.
How similar? Did he attack a ref or another player? Who knows...
Also, does suspension in one sport warrant a ban for all sports? |
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adkindo
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Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| C M B wrote: | | Didn't go for the knees or the face. Just a nice, clean, hit by a Texas high school football grug. |
I have watched the clip a few times, and I wonder if his initial plan was to hit the ref, or did he plan on just running up on him or even expected to get stopped before he got there....then that adrenalin and anger issues resulted in him making the decision at the last second. |
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Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Didn't go for the knees or the face. Just a nice, clean, hit by a Texas high school football grug. |
I have watched the clip a few times, and I wonder if his initial plan was to hit the ref, or did he plan on just running up on him or even expected to get stopped before he got there....then that adrenalin and anger issues resulted in him making the decision at the last second. |
18 year old kid. He had no clue. 18 year old boys are emotionally stupid. Military recruitment is predicated on this fact of life. 
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Mark_in_Tulsa
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 12977
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Didn't go for the knees or the face. Just a nice, clean, hit by a Texas high school football grug. |
I have watched the clip a few times, and I wonder if his initial plan was to hit the ref, or did he plan on just running up on him or even expected to get stopped before he got there....then that adrenalin and anger issues resulted in him making the decision at the last second. |
18 year old kid. He had no clue. 18 year old boys are emotionally stupid. Military recruitment is predicated on this fact of life. |
Ahh most humans have a clue by age 2 not to attack people.
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angrypuppy
Retired Number
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32752
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:53 am Post subject: |
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At 18 those hormones are making you crazy, let alone the steroids the kid may have been taking.
That doesn't absolve the coaching staff though, which is why the team has to forfeit postseason play. The only people who have a clue on how crazy this kid is are his teammates and the coaching staff. If you watch that clip, one of his teammates know exactly what the kid is going to do, and runs like hell to stop him. Too bad his foot speed didn't match his quick-thinking.
The head coach doesn't get it. When he was asked about the incident, he deflected by saying something like, "I don't want to talk about the incident, I want to talk about the rest of the team." Wrong. The kid was part of that team, and it is your responsibility in parceling out who makes the team and who gets playing time. The proper answer would have been to explain that the incident was out of character for the kid, and that better be the truth as that kid was placed in a position to jeopardize the season by none other than the coaching staff.
The distinction between this and a repeat offender like Burfict is simple. In the pros, they suspend a player rather than the team. In high school, there's no money involved, so they suspend the entire team. |
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easybreeze
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 2381
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_in_Tulsa wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Didn't go for the knees or the face. Just a nice, clean, hit by a Texas high school football grug. |
I have watched the clip a few times, and I wonder if his initial plan was to hit the ref, or did he plan on just running up on him or even expected to get stopped before he got there....then that adrenalin and anger issues resulted in him making the decision at the last second. |
18 year old kid. He had no clue. 18 year old boys are emotionally stupid. Military recruitment is predicated on this fact of life. |
Ahh most humans have a clue by age 2 not to attack people. |
A coworker labeled his teenage boys as going through a brain dead period. |
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jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30666
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | C M B wrote: | | Didn't go for the knees or the face. Just a nice, clean, hit by a Texas high school football grug. |
I have watched the clip a few times, and I wonder if his initial plan was to hit the ref, or did he plan on just running up on him or even expected to get stopped before he got there....then that adrenalin and anger issues resulted in him making the decision at the last second. |
18 year old kid. He had no clue. 18 year old boys are emotionally stupid. Military recruitment is predicated on this fact of life. |
Um, yeah going to go with a hard no here. By 18 you're about 14 years pass the point where you know it's the wrong thing to do to assault someone. Come on man. If that's what typical 18 year olds do when they lose their cool, we'd be seeing this all over the news daily...but we don't because the overwhelming majority of 18 year olds (we're talking 99.99 % to however many decimal points you want to go) aren't assaulting someone when things don't go their way.
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