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The Dagger
Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:02 am Post subject: |
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This also gives us one of the best benches in history
Trezz
Kuzz/Kief
THT
AC
DS
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The great Laker Center Tradition continues.....Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol, AD....Gasol. |
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Kobefied
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | We are missing a starting center. Mark Gasol will not get the job done. He is too slow, too unathletic, no scoring threat, etc. With his strong passing skills and veteran savvy, Mark would make a solid backup center.
So...with a mystery starting center I prefer this lineup:
??????
AD
LeBron
Matthews
KCP
With Gasol starting, I prefer this lineup:
Gasol
AD
LeBron
Kuzma
KCP |
I agree and if really think about it - would give Schroder tons of minutes beginning of season to get his stock up... and then Trade him mid-season to get a shot-blocking Defensive Center.
No one knew of the emergence of Tucker at start of this year, but now its clear we have too many guards - and Schroder is the one guy I think might not fit in with the others - and you might get the most Value trade wise for a Center --- but first you need to prop us his Starter minutes to build up his value in a Trade. |
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:08 am Post subject: |
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I think KCP starting is about as much of a lock as LeBron and Davis starting.
Gasol very likely to start also.
The only position that is really in question is the 2nd guard....I think it will be Schroeder personally.
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47580
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:11 am Post subject: |
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My prediction:
Gasol
Davis
James
Caldwell Pope
Schroeder
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Kobefied
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 556
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:12 am Post subject: |
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hoping Milwaukee falls apart this year, and they might want to unload few more players.
bring back Brook Lopez, put him behind AD and Lebron - would be a perfect fit. |
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8327
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I still think Schroder should start. I've said before on this board that LeBron shouldn't have to use up so much energy to get us off to a good start. Last season getting off to slow starts was a problem.
THT is much better off coming off the bench where he won't have to compete with LeBron and AD for FGAs.
Under no circumstances should Caruso start unless we have key injuries. Although he's a good role player, he's not as good as some think he is. When he's not hitting his 3-point shot, his game is really limited.
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Startrout
Star Player
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 2142
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Vogel will rely on last years players to play most minutes when needed to win competitive games. I believe he knows it’s going to take awhile to get the new players up to speed, especially on the defensive end. We probably won’t really know how good we are until the second half of the season or so. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | I think KCP starting is about as much of a lock as LeBron and Davis starting.
Gasol very likely to start also.
The only position that is really in question is the 2nd guard....I think it will be Schroeder personally. |
Yep, I think it will come down to Schroder vs Matthews. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8148
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | I still think Schroder should start. I've said before on this board that LeBron shouldn't have to use up so much energy to get us off to a good start. Last season getting off to slow starts was a problem.
THT is much better off coming off the bench where he won't have to compete with LeBron and AD for FGAs.
Under no circumstances should Caruso start unless we have key injuries. Although he's a good role player, he's not as good as some think he is. When he's not hitting his 3-point shot, his game is really limited. |
So THT should come off the bench because he “ won’t have to compete for FGAs” . Wouldn’t Schroder be competing for FGAs in the starting lineup?
Basically anyone in the starting lineup is competing for FGAs. And whenever James is on the court the other players will always defer to him and his style of play. Including Schroder. James is going to be James. As it should be.
IMO starting Schroder is a wasted asset. Let him run the team when James sits. Starting KCP and potentially Caruso is a defensive move. They add an energy and ball pressure that allows James to guard the lesser talents and rest on defense ( even though this irritates the hell out of me. Lol)
Caruso, THT, maybe Kuzma or Matthews are more capable of playing that support role of James and Davis.
James needs the ball in his hands. That is is talent. Having him off ball or in the post goes against his entire career body of work. I would rather see James play hard on both ends for 20 mpg then see him play 35 mpg but look for ways to coast or rest as so many keep suggesting.
Let the man be Lebron F’n James. When he can’t it is time to retire. Too much money and focus on him to half ass it. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: |
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THT can work against typically weaker 2nd units, and be in charge of the creating of the 2nd unit if he keeps up his play. I mean all preseason Frank has been trusting him with the ball as a creator and he is delivering. The thing I agree with is that he will not have that as much as a starter, and Dennis has some experience playing off superstars-all stars (CP3, before that Westbrook and George) so I think it is more natural for him.
The real thing for me is the D. I am impressed by some of THTs defense, but I wonder how he would do as a starting level guard defender. The appropriate move seems to first give him some control of the 2nd unit and see where it goes.
THT gives you more defensive versatility than Dennis, but Dennis may be better at stopping the ball against smaller quicker points. I bet the first 10 games of the RS are gonna be the real preseason, and let us know what is the right rotation. I honestly do not think even Frank knows what his rotation and lineup will be, considering most of preseason has been just about getting the players into game shape. |
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FrankUnderwood
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Oct 2019
Posts: 257
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| If you want defense and IQ I’d start Caruso instead. AC and Bron have shown to be incredible on the floor together with AD. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8148
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | THT can work against typically weaker 2nd units, and be in charge of the creating of the 2nd unit if he keeps up his play. I mean all preseason Frank has been trusting him with the ball as a creator and he is delivering. The thing I agree with is that he will not have that as much as a starter, and Dennis has some experience playing off superstars-all stars (CP3, before that Westbrook and George) so I think it is more natural for him.
The real thing for me is the D. I am impressed by some of THTs defense, but I wonder how he would do as a starting level guard defender. The appropriate move seems to first give him some control of the 2nd unit and see where it goes.
THT gives you more defensive versatility than Dennis, but Dennis may be better at stopping the ball against smaller quicker points. I bet the first 10 games of the RS are gonna be the real preseason, and let us know what is the right rotation. I honestly do not think even Frank knows what his rotation and lineup will be, considering most of preseason has been just about getting the players into game shape. |
Not disagreeing with anything you stated. THT likely excels more off the bench instead of making the jump to facing NBA star guards every night. I like what I am seeing from him but having to guard or be guarded by elite guards every night may not be the best plan. Maybe he is capable of handling the jump more then I think. That’s a coaches decision.
My thought is Caruso has proven he can be a defensive pest and impact against those same guards. He is not a playmaker, that is James’ and Davis’ job. Could add Gasol’s passing ability too. Caruso and KCP have the role to sell out on defense and cut to the basket or hit an occasional 3pt shot.
Starting lineup will likely evolve over the season. Options are a good thing. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Caruso is more of a secret weapon, that gets unleashed when you do not expect it. I too wonder if he has what it takes to start game in game out. Teams would start to figure him out, unless he has improved his game on offense.
Ideally, THT get that role next to AD and James, but the question is when. He is 20. This is basically his real rookie season where he will get to play regularly (I hope no injuries). In that case, if we build him up slowly, teams can not plan for a playoff switch where THT is suddenly inserted into the starting core lineup. I really didn't see this dude coming, but now I legit believe he could be a core starter for this group at some point. If it's within the AD/Bron championship window era (maybe 1-2 more years) my god, that's just gravy.
And yes, thinking ahead, if THT does that, by mid-season you probably consider moving Dennis maybe for another asset. But we are far from that, I wanna see what Dennis is going to play like around these guys as well. It's only preseason, so can not look too far ahead before the games actually count. |
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markjay
Star Player
Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3921
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Schroder - THT
KCP - Caruso
LeBron - Matthews
AD - Kuz - Morris
Gasol - Trez
Morris picks up a few more minutes when AD plays the 5 or Kuz plays the 3
Dudley and Cook spot minutes as needed. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I think folks are sleeping on Dennis. He gives us a weapon we haven’t had for a long time. He needs time to acclimate.
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LastStand 2.0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Oct 2020
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Ya I believe the smartest lineup is that
Gasol/ trezz/ Morris
Davis/ kuzma/ Morris
Lebron/ Matthews
KCP/ Caruso
Schroder/ THT
I just think it’s a healthier and more fluid lineup. Obviously with Davis doing spot minutes at the 5.
I think you need to get THT minutes to have him firing by playoffs. It’d be a huge extra weapon to have |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29277
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think folks are sleeping on Dennis. He gives us a weapon we haven’t had for a long time. He needs time to acclimate. |
I have a feeling he'll get alot of crap this season from LG and Lakers fans in general.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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LastStand 2.0
Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 Oct 2020
Posts: 647
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think folks are sleeping on Dennis. He gives us a weapon we haven’t had for a long time. He needs time to acclimate. |
I have a feeling he'll get alot of crap this season from LG and Lakers fans in general. |
Gasol already is and he’s been here 2 weeks lol |
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J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12668
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Shroder/KCP/Lebron/AD/Gasol |
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sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2063
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Starters: Schroder
KCP
Lebron
AD
Gasol
Bench: THT
Caruso
Wes/(McKinnie?)
Kuz/Kieff
Trez/Kieff
Compared to last year, Lakers have an extremely deep roster. Schroder provides the additional ball handler/playmaker to play beside him, to help relieve workload. Gaol helps in the playmaking area, as well.
THT has earned the right to prove himself, in the regular season. I like the combination of him, and Kuz on the floor. Caruso provides the calming young veteran experience, plus all the intangibles. Caruso's shot seems to be improved, and he looks like he's ready to insert himself more into the offense. He played a short preseason, but he was shooting more fluidly.
The staff finally have Kuz playing to his strengths. Less one-on-one dribbling on the perimeter. More catching the ball on the move, and in the post, along with the usual spot-up's. Much more efficient, and it shows. Stay the course.
Granted, the lineups will change, depending on match-ups. But, I think this will be the "standard" lineup. Really excited to see how everything comes together, once this team gels. Only thing I would like added, is another big.
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8327
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | I still think Schroder should start. I've said before on this board that LeBron shouldn't have to use up so much energy to get us off to a good start. Last season getting off to slow starts was a problem.
THT is much better off coming off the bench where he won't have to compete with LeBron and AD for FGAs.
Under no circumstances should Caruso start unless we have key injuries. Although he's a good role player, he's not as good as some think he is. When he's not hitting his 3-point shot, his game is really limited. |
So THT should come off the bench because he “ won’t have to compete for FGAs” . Wouldn’t Schroder be competing for FGAs in the starting lineup?
Basically anyone in the starting lineup is competing for FGAs. And whenever James is on the court the other players will always defer to him and his style of play. Including Schroder. James is going to be James. As it should be.
IMO starting Schroder is a wasted asset. Let him run the team when James sits. Starting KCP and potentially Caruso is a defensive move. They add an energy and ball pressure that allows James to guard the lesser talents and rest on defense ( even though this irritates the hell out of me. Lol)
Caruso, THT, maybe Kuzma or Matthews are more capable of playing that support role of James and Davis.
James needs the ball in his hands. That is is talent. Having him off ball or in the post goes against his entire career body of work. I would rather see James play hard on both ends for 20 mpg then see him play 35 mpg but look for ways to coast or rest as so many keep suggesting.
Let the man be Lebron F’n James. When he can’t it is time to retire. Too much money and focus on him to half ass it. |
It's not about getting Schroder a ton of FGAs. It's about conserving LeBron's energy, while still arranging the rotations so that Schroder is also playing a lot with the bench. Schroder can do that by pushing the ball some of the time he's out there with LeBron while also looking to penetrate and score at times. Plus Schroder can guard small, quick guards, so starting him can help us start the game right defensively. KCP or Wes should also start and take the other team's bigger guard or wing.
If we want LeBron to play hard for only 20 minutes and look for ways to coast or rest for the rest of the time he's out there, playing Schroder with him the first 6 minutes or so of the game will help with that. Then LeBron will be more fresh for the 4th quarter.
I'm open to someone other than Schroder finishing the game depending on what happens night to night.
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think folks are sleeping on Dennis. He gives us a weapon we haven’t had for a long time. He needs time to acclimate. |
I have a feeling he'll get alot of crap this season from LG and Lakers fans in general. |
I’m have a sneaky good feeling about him. But he will need the most adjustment
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KBandKB
Star Player
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 2278
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe Vogel should experiment with lineups and change starting lineups according to the matchup.
If we play a team with two big guards, we can play KCP with either Kuz or Wes.
If we play a team who defends LeBron pretty well, we can start Schröder to relieve LeBron of playmaking duties.
If we have a team that sucks at defending the three point line, then we put the three best shooters out there with LeBron and AD |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I have a feeling he'll get alot of crap this season from LG and Lakers fans in general.
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Dennis' mistakes are loud.
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https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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