Think We Need a Rim Protecting Big? (LAL rank 23rd in Defending Points in Paint)
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troy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:31 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
SD2Hollyweird wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
The concern trolls are squawking again . . .


The way of lakersground....


It's usually just handful of guys that love to beat a point to death.


Consider me a proud member of that "handful of guys". I love my Lakers too much to let a deficiency go unattended to.

Gasol is our weak link. He needs to go.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:21 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
SD2Hollyweird wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
The concern trolls are squawking again . . .


The way of lakersground....


It's usually just handful of guys that love to beat a point to death.


Consider me a proud member of that "handful of guys". I love my Lakers too much to let a deficiency go unattended to.

Gasol is our weak link. He needs to go.


This is a trend that I not only notice in sports but in politics... if you disagree with the most popular opinion you are labeled a troll instead of someone with a genuine opinion. It's extremely offensive, especially in a country where we once prided ourselves on protecting free speech. Now it's free speech as long as you stay in line with the orthodoxy of the dominant group.

I've been a Lakers fan for fifty years... yet anytime I disagree with the club's decisions I get called into question for my true loyalties.

Not everyone has to like how things are done to be a true fan.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:30 am    Post subject:

Like I said Troy, I understand the concerns people have with the difference in the rim protection with Gasol-Trez vs Dwight-McGee. But it is solved very easily by moving AD to the 5, when we need it. AD is a lot more athletic than Gasol-Trez, as good as shotblocker-rim protection guy as Dwight was, and he has much better ability to cover ground defensively. Even McGee-Dwight, often had to sit for long stretches.

What we need is Trez to keep improving, as he has thus far been able to create some incredibly effective offense for us. He is the 3rd option, that some think Dennis is, because his efficiency is off the roof, he does not turnover the ball and he makes a lot of impact in there.

It is all based on matchups in the playoffs. Right now Vogel is simply buying time, keeping players fresh and ensuring AD is not playing 5 all season. There was an interview in a game after the Heat series, where AD is asked about being a 5. He says, this is after a playoff game, that he tells Frank and the coaching staff that when it is the playoffs he will play 5 as much as the team needs. That he prefers the 4 in the RS. AD has never given an exact reason for this preference, but my guess is the physical nature of some of the matchups at 5, it would wear and tear on his body. In most playoff series, AD will be our primary 5. We probably even start AD at the 5, and bring in some additional guard-wing defense with Caruso, or Wesley. If Gasol continues to start in the playoffs, it will be based on him having the right match up, and making a positive contribution.

What you just want are the pieces of the puzzle to give Frank, and Frank will put them together based on the playoff match up. When you have bigs like AD, Trez, Gasol. I mean not many teams have that kind of talent bigman wise. Actually no team, has that kind of talent. We have the best big in basketball in AD, the best post scoring big off the bench in Trez, and a legit old school 5. When we want to play microball, we can even go with Kieff at the 5 with Bron at the 4. We have all sorts of weapons we can utilize. It all depends on the stylistic match up it is. Getting caught up in RS on an issue that did not even come into play in the playoffs, does not make a lot of sense to me. Come playoffs, if there is an issue defending the paint., AD is starting at 5, Caruso is in to help stop the ball. Once you have multiple guards that can stop the ball, or contain dribble penetration, and elite DPOTY big like AD in the middle, you are not going to get killed inside.


Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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rock0100
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject:

Can we trade Kuzma for Naz Reid? Would need to include someone else but that guy would be good for us.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:24 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
troy wrote:
CRoost wrote:
troy wrote:
Last few games, Laker analyst Stu Lance has been lamenting about all the points the Lakers are giving up in the paint. All this talk about Gasol being "high IQ" (whatever) and a positional defense is just another way of saying he doesn't have the physical ability to contest shots at the rim, and the fact that opposing teams are driving into the paint so often confirms that Gasol has no intimidation factor.

Come the playoffs, teams will exploit the weakness Gasol brings. They will figure out that Gasol is too slow and bloated to do anything to stop drives to the basket, and they will either draw AD into foul trouble covering for Gasol, or they will draw him away from the key to isolate Gasol inside.

We will have to rely on positional defense and help-outs, which is not a good proposition come playoff time. That said, I have enough faith in Vogel to figure it out.


We already went through this. Last playoff, the shot blocking big was only had only an impact on one playoff series and that is the Nuggets. Other than matching up with someone like Jokic, we can’t utilized them. I believed Gasol is good enough .

Both AD and Lebron are in cruise mode defensively. I expect them to tighten the screws comes playoff.


From my observations, the amount of paint-points we are allowing this year versus last year is at a critical level. Dwight and Mcgee contributed at least 10-12 points on lob dunks every game, and their interior intimidation probably saved us at least 8-10 points per game.

I just don't see what Gasol offers. He's big, but he can't jump. He can shoot the 3 pointer, but not often. His inside game is ineffective. He can rebound when the ball comes his way, but he's not a pure rebounder. He can position himself just fine, but opposing players just go around him or through him if no other Lakers rotate to help him out.

Again, not sure why this deficiency is so clear to me and not to some of you.
I'm sure Gasol will contribute whatever he can.


Dwight and McGee contributed in the regular season last season. Their presence also felt as intimidating factor mitigating the paint scored on us. But we are not trying to win the regular season. The big picture is the playoff of which AD will play more minutes on Center position and Lebron goes all out on defense. There’s no such as critical level on regular season. We are a championship team, not a playoff or bust kinda team. It’s definitely a concern but like I said , our 2 best defenders are in cruise mode.


My point should be that I'd rather go into the post season with McGee/Harrell than Gasol. McGee>Gasol, and I broke that down in detail in another thread.


McGee was towel waving in the playoff last year. Why would you want someone who no role for us when it matters. Gasol can bang with low post big men and can play positional defense and has the IQ to make plays on both ends.
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:28 pm    Post subject:

Why are people clamouring for a guy who didn't see the floor in the playoffs last year? It makes no sense to me.

If Javale goes to Brooklyn you'll see how easily he's negated in the Playoffs. Put Gasol or AD on Javale, pull him to the perimeter, rim-blocking negated.

Too easy.
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:55 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Why are people clamouring for a guy who didn't see the floor in the playoffs last year? It makes no sense to me.

If Javale goes to Brooklyn you'll see how easily he's negated in the Playoffs. Put Gasol or AD on Javale, pull him to the perimeter, rim-blocking negated.

Too easy.


First, as it should be obvious, the playoffs are when the rotations tighten up. We had D. Howard (that Rob also let go) taking minutes as well as a small ball lineup with Kieff at the 5, and then, of course, we had AD, who can play the 5 during the post season. That is why Javele didn't get much playing time during the post season.

By the way, Gasol is only averaging 3 more minutes per game than Javele did, regular season, and Gasol (unlike last year) is the only big man we got that is in the regular rotation. It's not like Gasol is playing big time, and important time, minutes out there...
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drae
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:08 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
drae wrote:
Why are people clamouring for a guy who didn't see the floor in the playoffs last year? It makes no sense to me.

If Javale goes to Brooklyn you'll see how easily he's negated in the Playoffs. Put Gasol or AD on Javale, pull him to the perimeter, rim-blocking negated.

Too easy.


First, as it should be obvious, the playoffs are when the rotations tighten up. We had D. Howard (that Rob also let go) taking minutes as well as a small ball lineup with Kieff at the 5, and then, of course, we had AD, who can play the 5 during the post season. That is why Javele didn't get much playing time during the post season.

By the way, Gasol is only averaging 3 more minutes per game than Javele did, regular season, and Gasol (unlike last year) is the only big man we got that is in the regular rotation. It's not like Gasol is playing big time, and important time, minutes out there...


Dwight played the most minutes against Jokic, because we needed a big body. McGee wouldn't have done well and would have just been bullied TBH. But Dwight was played off the court against Houston (we eventually just went small ball with Kief) he should never have played against Portland, and we needed him for Myers in Miami who would have abused McGee as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:51 pm    Post subject:

rock0100 wrote:
Can we trade Kuzma for Naz Reid? Would need to include someone else but that guy would be good for us.


I like Naz Reid. It would be a treat to get him.
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fansincemagic
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:41 pm    Post subject:

Marc's foul trouble is another reason to have another warm body. That and blocking the Nets from getting one early enough to build chemistry with. Even if they're the better spot because of PT you still look into buyout bigs when they're available.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Javale defending AD well

Cleveland playing twin tower defense really bothering LA
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:29 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Why are people clamouring for a guy who didn't see the floor in the playoffs last year? It makes no sense to me.

If Javale goes to Brooklyn you'll see how easily he's negated in the Playoffs. Put Gasol or AD on Javale, pull him to the perimeter, rim-blocking negated.

Too easy.


See how much AD had to work tonight on D? Against a lottery team in a regular season game?

Getting another big will give AD more rest during the regular season and save more energy for the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:31 pm    Post subject:

We have GOT to get another big.

Gasol is about as worthless as they come.

I don't care about the advanced stats. Just using the eye test is enough to say that we need an upgrade.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:54 pm    Post subject:

Athletic bigs that can roll, paired with a quality point guard is going to be Gasols kryptonite all season. I saw it in preseason with Ayton-Suns. The Lakers will have issues with this, and you just got to believe if it were a playoff series against a team like Cavs, you just start AD at the 5. Look at how we closed - AD, Bron, KCP, Caruso, Dennis.

Gasol has value as a player that can stretch the floor, pass and also make high IQ plays on both ends. But we do not reap the benefit of that yet, because he is not taking or making enough open 3s.
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DJMBENGA
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:04 pm    Post subject:

BlueNGold wrote:
We have GOT to get another big.

Gasol is about as worthless as they come.

I don't care about the advanced stats. Just using the eye test is enough to say that we need an upgrade.


Could not agree more. Some on this forum feel completely different, but it’s obvious when you watch the game.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:14 pm    Post subject:

McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got.
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Athletic bigs that can roll, paired with a quality point guard is going to be Gasols kryptonite all season. I saw it in preseason with Ayton-Suns. The Lakers will have issues with this, and you just got to believe if it were a playoff series against a team like Cavs, you just start AD at the 5. Look at how we closed - AD, Bron, KCP, Caruso, Dennis.

Gasol has value as a player that can stretch the floor, pass and also make high IQ plays on both ends. But we do not reap the benefit of that yet, because he is not taking or making enough open 3s.


Funny how Gasol is always attributed as being a "high IQ" player. Hmm, I wonder why...

What does that mean exactly? Getting 3 fouls in the first quarter isn't really attributed to "high IQ".
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troy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:41 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got.


And yet McGee having a McGee game still played better than our starting center.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject:

BlueNGold wrote:
We have GOT to get another big.

Gasol is about as worthless as they come.

I don't care about the advanced stats. Just using the eye test is enough to say that we need an upgrade.


Right on, Lakers win DESPITE of him...NOT BECAUSE of him...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:43 pm    Post subject:

Gasol got abused tonight.
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mhan00
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject:

troy wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got.


And yet McGee having a McGee game still played better than our starting center.


For the umpteenth time, McGee didn’t play at all for us when the games actually mattered. Why would we want him back when he won’t get any minutes in the playoffs because he just isn’t a consistently good player?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:53 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
troy wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got.


And yet McGee having a McGee game still played better than our starting center.


For the umpteenth time, McGee didn’t play at all for us when the games actually mattered. Why would we want him back when he won’t get any minutes in the playoffs because he just isn’t a consistently good player?


For the umpteenth time, he actually did play when it mattered. Given AD's history of durability, not having him expend as much energy and effort during the regular season actually matters.. a lot.. This is actually more about Howard than McGee in my opinion. But either would be nice to have.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject:

Just sign Dedmon.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:27 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
troy wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got.


And yet McGee having a McGee game still played better than our starting center.


For the umpteenth time, McGee didn’t play at all for us when the games actually mattered. Why would we want him back when he won’t get any minutes in the playoffs because he just isn’t a consistently good player?


McGee was basically a Laker again tonight, he was brutally awful and hia low iq was shining as bright as ever. Gasol also had a rough game but while we do need that extra Center for depth McGee is absolutely not it if he was even an option....
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:08 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Gasol got abused tonight.


So did Harrell. The active two center lineup killed the Lakers.

This was a great example of the reason they need to add another legitimate big. Gasol getting limited or having a rough night. And Harrell not playing with the intensity he needs to have to be of value.

How many shots did Davis miss in the fourth? Possibly because he had to exert so much energy playing extra Center mins against active bigs pounding the boards.
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