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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31924
Location: Anaheim, CA
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 Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Count me among those that think we need to get another center on this team. Gasol is done. God, just watch the games. He cannot move and is a serious liability. We're so good, even going at 75% speed, that our starting unit is still going to be fine, but he's a liability. It's really rough watching him. This shouldn't be a popularity contest, and I realize the regular season is fairly meaningless for us, but we should have a different option available to us come playoff time. We think Jokic is big and slow, but good Lord, Gasol is like a statue compared to him. |
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M2K
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Joined: 20 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Most likely one of two scenarios play out...
A) Lakers sign a low-end FA big man and keep their roster intact or...
B) Ariza becomes available, Lakers get him and trade Kuzma and whomever for a decent C.
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A three headed monster... Jeannie, Pelinka, and Ham... another terrible season. |
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mad55557777
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23272
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | Most likely one of two scenarios play out...
A) Lakers sign a low-end FA big man and keep their roster intact or...
B) Ariza becomes available, Lakers get him and trade Kuzma and whomever for a decent C. |
Kuzma is hard to move because of his salary this season, unless we attaché DS or KCP, we won’t get anyone decent.
Look for the buyout market. Probably won’t need a big man in the playoffs anyways |
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ChickenStu
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Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 31924
Location: Anaheim, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| mad55557777 wrote: | | M2K wrote: | Most likely one of two scenarios play out...
A) Lakers sign a low-end FA big man and keep their roster intact or...
B) Ariza becomes available, Lakers get him and trade Kuzma and whomever for a decent C. |
Kuzma is hard to move because of his salary this season, unless we attaché DS or KCP, we won’t get anyone decent.
Look for the buyout market. Probably won’t need a big man in the playoffs anyways |
Agreed that Kuz's PPP makes a deal incredibly difficult to pull off, plus he's actually doing some dirty work now so he serves a certain utility for us. KCP isn't going anywhere. Schroder, as an expirer, is at least possible if he continues to stay in a funk and if management thinks that he won't be back anyway. If they go that route, it does open up potential to bring back fairly significant salary. I'm not saying that would automatically be for a big man, but just notable. |
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32067
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | troy wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got. |
And yet McGee having a McGee game still played better than our starting center. |
For the umpteenth time, McGee didn’t play at all for us when the games actually mattered. Why would we want him back when he won’t get any minutes in the playoffs because he just isn’t a consistently good player? |
For the umpteenth time, he actually did play when it mattered. Given AD's history of durability, not having him expend as much energy and effort during the regular season actually matters.. a lot.. This is actually more about Howard than McGee in my opinion. But either would be nice to have. |
No he didn’t. Regular season games don’t matter. Gasol eats up those minutes just fine (he wasn’t very good tonight, but he’s been mostly fine as a big body with bball in most of the early season), and failing that Harrell, Morris, KUZ etc are ready to step in. AD has been coasting just fine for us this season; he’s spent most of the first eight or so games just giving token effort on defense and he played only 28 minutes just the other night.
I get pining for Dwight. But McGee just makes me laugh. The dude was part of a starting lineup that dug us double digit holes quite often, which was a major complaint here for a good portion of last season. At least the starting lineup this season has been crushing it. McGee didn’t play in the playoffs when he wasn’t cutting it, and I doubt Gasol will either if he isn’t cutting it in the playoffs either. The Lakers thrived with a locked in AD at the 5; no reason to think this season will be any different, barring injury. |
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
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Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:05 am Post subject: |
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If you want to believe regular season games don't matter that pretty much ends our exchange. We simply don't agree. Though I'd prefer McGee over Gasol from a defensive standpoint I'm not going to make a big deal about him being replaced by Gasol. What I don't like is the idea of Gasol replacing Howard.
I don't like Gasol on this roster.. Don't think he'll be enough of a hinderance to prevent us from winning a chip, with that being said at this stage of his career, I'd rather not have him. |
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leking006
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Joined: 12 Oct 2018
Posts: 6398
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | troy wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | | McGee had a McGee game. Had a nice dunk off of a lob, and embarrassed himself with his decision making. His D on AD looked good only because AD played like complete ass today. ADwas tripping over himself, couldn’t hang onto the ball, and was bricking every open look he got. |
And yet McGee having a McGee game still played better than our starting center. |
For the umpteenth time, McGee didn’t play at all for us when the games actually mattered. Why would we want him back when he won’t get any minutes in the playoffs because he just isn’t a consistently good player? |
For the umpteenth time, he actually did play when it mattered. Given AD's history of durability, not having him expend as much energy and effort during the regular season actually matters.. a lot.. This is actually more about Howard than McGee in my opinion. But either would be nice to have. |
No he didn’t. Regular season games don’t matter. Gasol eats up those minutes just fine (he wasn’t very good tonight, but he’s been mostly fine as a big body with bball in most of the early season), and failing that Harrell, Morris, KUZ etc are ready to step in. AD has been coasting just fine for us this season; he’s spent most of the first eight or so games just giving token effort on defense and he played only 28 minutes just the other night.
I get pining for Dwight. But McGee just makes me laugh. The dude was part of a starting lineup that dug us double digit holes quite often, which was a major complaint here for a good portion of last season. At least the starting lineup this season has been crushing it. McGee didn’t play in the playoffs when he wasn’t cutting it, and I doubt Gasol will either if he isn’t cutting it in the playoffs either. The Lakers thrived with a locked in AD at the 5; no reason to think this season will be any different, barring injury. |
They are worrying too much that the Lakers lost 2 guys who barely played in the playoffs. If they are worried about who will guard Jokic, I think Gasol can handle him Drummond is just too much quicker than him. I think AD can handle Drummond anyway, that is if they made it to the finals and it is unlikely to happen. The one thing I'm worried though is Embiid. I dont think Gasol can handle him, if ever they face them in the finals. So AD and the Lakers will have their hands full guarding Embiid. |
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SPO200
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Joined: 28 Jun 2018
Posts: 1458
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | If you want to believe regular season games don't matter that pretty much ends our exchange. We simply don't agree. Though I'd prefer McGee over Gasol from a defensive standpoint I'm not going to make a big deal about him being replaced by Gasol. What I don't like is the idea of Gasol replacing Howard.
I don't like Gasol on this roster.. Don't think he'll be enough of a hinderance to prevent us from winning a chip, with that being said at this stage of his career, I'd rather not have him. |
The question was never Gasol or Howard, it was Harrell or Howard. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| SPO200 wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | If you want to believe regular season games don't matter that pretty much ends our exchange. We simply don't agree. Though I'd prefer McGee over Gasol from a defensive standpoint I'm not going to make a big deal about him being replaced by Gasol. What I don't like is the idea of Gasol replacing Howard.
I don't like Gasol on this roster.. Don't think he'll be enough of a hinderance to prevent us from winning a chip, with that being said at this stage of his career, I'd rather not have him. |
The question was never Gasol or Howard, it was Harrell or Howard. |
Whether it's the question or not.. I'm stating my preference of McGee and Howard over Gasol. McGee to a lesser extent of course. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | If you want to believe regular season games don't matter that pretty much ends our exchange. We simply don't agree. Though I'd prefer McGee over Gasol from a defensive standpoint I'm not going to make a big deal about him being replaced by Gasol. What I don't like is the idea of Gasol replacing Howard.
I don't like Gasol on this roster.. Don't think he'll be enough of a hinderance to prevent us from winning a chip, with that being said at this stage of his career, I'd rather not have him. |
I like Gasol on this roster quite a bit. But in a limited role in certain situations. I think he will have a significant impact in the game playoffs. His passing, defensive positioning and threat to hit the 3pt helps the team despite his flaws.
The issue is getting him to the playoffs healthy. The other is the rotations against certain teams or matchups. Gasol is a 20 mpg role player. Against certain active and athletic centers he gets out run and out worked. Not just the elite centers either, even middle of the road centers are starting to have “good” nights against the Lakers. Trending in the wrong direction if nothing else.
Against the Cavs was a splash of reality of what happens when he is out of the lineup in even his limited role. It causes a domino effect of forcing Harrell and Davis into roles they are not comfortable with for extended mins.
I love Harrell’s energy when he plays with it. But when he doesn’t he becomes a defensive liability. Watching the Cavs getting repeated putbacks over Harrell and James was annoying. It made a blowout a competitive game. And that was with Love and Nance out. Just can’t put those expectations on James. His value is not banging in the paint.
Another reason for another center is for eating up those blowout mins in the last half of the fourth quarter. Gasol should not be wasting mpg in those situations.
Can’t wait for the moment the pro rated vet contract fits the Lakers salary limitations. Add a center! Still 50 games left in the season and another 20-30 in the playoffs. That is a lot of mins left to be filled. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:33 am Post subject: |
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It's not about Gasol for me.
It's about having a 3rd center (preferably a 7 footer) to have off the bench. Marc is showing signs of toastiness. Let's see how he fares against Embiid. Historically he's given Embiid fits, but right now Embiid is playing really well.
Honestly, just give me someone like Dedmon.
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | If you want to believe regular season games don't matter that pretty much ends our exchange. We simply don't agree. Though I'd prefer McGee over Gasol from a defensive standpoint I'm not going to make a big deal about him being replaced by Gasol. What I don't like is the idea of Gasol replacing Howard.
I don't like Gasol on this roster.. Don't think he'll be enough of a hinderance to prevent us from winning a chip, with that being said at this stage of his career, I'd rather not have him. |
I like Gasol on this roster quite a bit. But in a limited role in certain situations. I think he will have a significant impact in the game playoffs. His passing, defensive positioning and threat to hit the 3pt helps the team despite his flaws.
The issue is getting him to the playoffs healthy. The other is the rotations against certain teams or matchups. Gasol is a 20 mpg role player. Against certain active and athletic centers he gets out run and out worked. Not just the elite centers either, even middle of the road centers are starting to have “good” nights against the Lakers. Trending in the wrong direction if nothing else.
Against the Cavs was a splash of reality of what happens when he is out of the lineup in even his limited role. It causes a domino effect of forcing Harrell and Davis into roles they are not comfortable with for extended mins.
I love Harrell’s energy when he plays with it. But when he doesn’t he becomes a defensive liability. Watching the Cavs getting repeated putbacks over Harrell and James was annoying. It made a blowout a competitive game. And that was with Love and Nance out. Just can’t put those expectations on James. His value is not banging in the paint.
Another reason for another center is for eating up those blowout mins in the last half of the fourth quarter. Gasol should not be wasting mpg in those situations.
Can’t wait for the moment the pro rated vet contract fits the Lakers salary limitations. Add a center! Still 50 games left in the season and another 20-30 in the playoffs. That is a lot of mins left to be filled. |
That's fair. I can be on board with that.. Also agree with most of what you said. |
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lurklurk
Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 621
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Marc is playing quality minutes for his minimum salary, we already saw what he can be capable of as a playmaking stretch big. He’ll play even better in the playoffs when his basketball iq will manifest more via adjustments, playmaking and defensive positioning. Compared to dwight and javale who both got played off the court last postseason.
It’s hard to admit but if i have to choose someone, trez is the odd man out in our bigs rotation. 2nd highest in salary (among bigs) yet cant space the floor nor protect the rim. His value right now is to provide offensive threat from our frontcourt when AD is resting. When he shares the floor with AD, AD needs to work harder on defense as sole rim protector while being forced away from the basket on offense so their spacing wont get messed up. Honestly, the only reason i dont mind the trez signing is because we still have the AD-kief-lebron frontcourt we can rely on. |
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LakersRGolden
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Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Frank needs to change up the 2nd half "starters." Swap Trez for Gasol so you get starters + Trez starting the 3rd and that Gasol / AD / Kuzma / 2 guards to finish.
Gasol gets to stay the "starter" but his offensive talents can be better utilized with the AD crew. AD gets more space on offense and someone that can pass him the ball. The biggest winner though would be Kuzma.
And yes, it would be nice to sign that 15th guy but we can't until sometime in Feb without waiving Cook IIRC. |
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troy
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 4991
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | If you want to believe regular season games don't matter that pretty much ends our exchange. We simply don't agree. Though I'd prefer McGee over Gasol from a defensive standpoint I'm not going to make a big deal about him being replaced by Gasol. What I don't like is the idea of Gasol replacing Howard.
I don't like Gasol on this roster.. Don't think he'll be enough of a hinderance to prevent us from winning a chip, with that being said at this stage of his career, I'd rather not have him. |
I like Gasol on this roster quite a bit. But in a limited role in certain situations. I think he will have a significant impact in the game playoffs. His passing, defensive positioning and threat to hit the 3pt helps the team despite his flaws.
The issue is getting him to the playoffs healthy. The other is the rotations against certain teams or matchups. Gasol is a 20 mpg role player. Against certain active and athletic centers he gets out run and out worked. Not just the elite centers either, even middle of the road centers are starting to have “good” nights against the Lakers. Trending in the wrong direction if nothing else.
Against the Cavs was a splash of reality of what happens when he is out of the lineup in even his limited role. It causes a domino effect of forcing Harrell and Davis into roles they are not comfortable with for extended mins.
I love Harrell’s energy when he plays with it. But when he doesn’t he becomes a defensive liability. Watching the Cavs getting repeated putbacks over Harrell and James was annoying. It made a blowout a competitive game. And that was with Love and Nance out. Just can’t put those expectations on James. His value is not banging in the paint.
Another reason for another center is for eating up those blowout mins in the last half of the fourth quarter. Gasol should not be wasting mpg in those situations.
Can’t wait for the moment the pro rated vet contract fits the Lakers salary limitations. Add a center! Still 50 games left in the season and another 20-30 in the playoffs. That is a lot of mins left to be filled. |
I agree with you here. |
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leking006
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Joined: 12 Oct 2018
Posts: 6398
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Frank needs to change up the 2nd half "starters." Swap Trez for Gasol so you get starters + Trez starting the 3rd and that Gasol / AD / Kuzma / 2 guards to finish.
Gasol gets to stay the "starter" but his offensive talents can be better utilized with the AD crew. AD gets more space on offense and someone that can pass him the ball. The biggest winner though would be Kuzma.
And yes, it would be nice to sign that 15th guy but we can't until sometime in Feb without waiving Cook IIRC. |
Why change the current the current rotation when it is working? Maybe he can experiment sometime, but I dont think he will change this rotation totally when this resulted in a #1 position. |
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windycitycane
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Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 13166
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| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| leking006 wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | Frank needs to change up the 2nd half "starters." Swap Trez for Gasol so you get starters + Trez starting the 3rd and that Gasol / AD / Kuzma / 2 guards to finish.
Gasol gets to stay the "starter" but his offensive talents can be better utilized with the AD crew. AD gets more space on offense and someone that can pass him the ball. The biggest winner though would be Kuzma.
And yes, it would be nice to sign that 15th guy but we can't until sometime in Feb without waiving Cook IIRC. |
Why change the current the current rotation when it is working? Maybe he can experiment sometime, but I dont think he will change this rotation totally when this resulted in a #1 position. |
I think our starters were -17 against Philadelphia tonight. Whats our record with Gasol starting against playoff teams?
What about ad playing the 5. Lbj, kcp, ds and caruso? that lineup almost came back to win the game.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25092
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, maybe it’s McKinney for Whiteside time? |
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Inspector Gadget
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Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Ok, maybe it’s McKinney for Whiteside time? |
Kings have no motivation to help us get a reliable C if we get Whiteside it will be via buy out, we should go after Vucevic the FO is already familiar with Vuc with him always playing well when we play ORL. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | governator wrote: | | Ok, maybe it’s McKinney for Whiteside time? |
Kings have no motivation to help us get a reliable C if we get Whiteside it will be via buy out, we should go after Vucevic the FO is already familiar with Vuc with him always playing well when we play ORL. |
Is he that much of an upgrade from Gasol in rim protection? We have enough offensive fire power
can't we throw in a future 2nd rd or something, I mean it's not like Whiteside is a project for Kings, just dead weight
Last edited by governator on Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BlueNGold
Star Player
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Posts: 1617
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:44 am Post subject: |
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The answer to this question has become the most resounding "yes" that I can imagine. Gasol just doesn't have it anymore.
I like the guy and I actually feel bad for him, but that won't win games or 'chips. Unfortunately, it's a business, so he's gotta be moved back in the rotation. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:35 am Post subject: |
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We need a scoring threat at the 5. The team is a #1 rated defensive team, and their offense despite having more talent has been falling to #8.
A lot of that is when Gasol plays the Lakers O rating is a so so 110, but a good D rating of 102.
On the other side though, when Trez plays the Lakers O rating is a ridiculous 128 and the D rating slips slightly to 104.
A lot has been made about the D, but it is actually the O that has shown to suffer the most with Gasol at the 5. Gasol needs to shoot the open looks he gets. He passes up 6 to 8 wide open looks each game, and no one respects his scoring ability, and it can become like playing 4 on 5 at times. I understand he is always looking for an even better shot, and wants to set up teammates, but Bron or AD often will get doubled and need a guy that will finish by 3s or layups in that situation. Gasol is not that guy. At least Trez can cut to the basket and finish.
Trading a 3rd string wing that will not play much for a 5 that could start, makes a lot of sense for the Lakers. But mostly it would help in the RS than playoffs. But what you just don't want is one dimensional players, guys that can not take advantage of AD-Bron being doubled, or zone defenses, or that.
Marc's IQ is always going to be a value I respect, but to keep starting for the entire season, he has to freaking shoot those shots that are wide open. He is letting the defense sag off him, and also make it harder for AD-Bron to create. |
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MIMLaker
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001
Posts: 10015
Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:07 am Post subject: |
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53 days until the trade deadline and we see who gets waived by other teams. I’m just hoping we avoid injuries to our bigs until then.
Still hoping we can get Ian Mahinmi (former Vogel C in Indy) or Kyle O’Quinn (solid rebounder, 7-6 WS, with 76ers last year), with preference for O’Quinn as he should be younger and more mobile.
If we could somehow trade McKinnie for more cap room I’d do it, as THT is making him obsolete. I think Vogel is trying to preserve Gasol a bit so he’s fresh for playoffs, but preserving AD requires 2 rotation bigs. One more solid, MOBILE 4/5 player - not a small-ball 5, but legit big, and doesn’t even have to be a rim-runner. Just hoping we can hold out until we get one.
Anybody know what our min salary is proratable to now at this point if the season? |
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | We need a scoring threat at the 5. The team is a #1 rated defensive team, and their offense despite having more talent has been falling to #8.
A lot of that is when Gasol plays the Lakers O rating is a so so 110, but a good D rating of 102.
On the other side though, when Trez plays the Lakers O rating is a ridiculous 128 and the D rating slips slightly to 104.
A lot has been made about the D, but it is actually the O that has shown to suffer the most with Gasol at the 5. Gasol needs to shoot the open looks he gets. He passes up 6 to 8 wide open looks each game, and no one respects his scoring ability, and it can become like playing 4 on 5 at times. I understand he is always looking for an even better shot, and wants to set up teammates, but Bron or AD often will get doubled and need a guy that will finish by 3s or layups in that situation. Gasol is not that guy. At least Trez can cut to the basket and finish.
Trading a 3rd string wing that will not play much for a 5 that could start, makes a lot of sense for the Lakers. But mostly it would help in the RS than playoffs. But what you just don't want is one dimensional players, guys that can not take advantage of AD-Bron being doubled, or zone defenses, or that.
Marc's IQ is always going to be a value I respect, but to keep starting for the entire season, he has to freaking shoot those shots that are wide open. He is letting the defense sag off him, and also make it harder for AD-Bron to create. |
I think that ORtg and DRtg is tied to Trezz playing a bunch of minutes along with the 2nd unit.
But personally, I kind of get it but I don't. The best 3rd guy available is what, Alex Len? What's he going to do?
The margin of victory is 7.71 with the #1 defense DRTG in the league. This is better than last year.
This whole time LAL has been hiding a ton of lineups and he shows a few of them vs. the Celtics. AD isn't even playing anywhere near a ton of time at 5 compared to last year, which is the bigger effect here.
If AD plays 5, net rating goes up a ton more. He IS the 3rd big.
Personally, I've vouched for Ilyasova before, but people think he's toast too. Doesn't provide anything differently in terms of shooting range like Gasol or defensive ability considering he takes charges too.
Outside of him and Omer Yurtseven or Justin Patton, guys that need development.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10482
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| Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Why don't we use the Gasol to Bron cuts more often? Is the paint just getting too clogged with our shooting? |
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