Can the Lakers compete with BKN in the Finals?
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject:

RG73 wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Brooklyn would be crazy to trade Kyrie if the dude is willing to play. That amount of talent is enough to easily make it to the Finals, and they'd have a great shot against us too.

I don't think people are giving enough credit to just how insane of a big 3 this is. And if you think they can't go out there and find some vet min Dwight Howard types, well then I think you are underestimating them.


Yeah, those minimum contract Dwight Howard types are all over the place. Probably why we got our Dwight replacement, right?


We got better than him.

But if you went in the "Rim Protection" thread you'd assume the league was just full of them.

Whom the Nets currently have in Deandre Jordan is about in the same place Dwight pretty much is now, except Dwight is coming off the bench unless he is forced to start, but with Embiid he can stay in a bench role primarily. Deandre is going to be forced to start however, without Allen there now. The only way that won't happen is if BKN land a center they feel is better than Deandre.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:34 am    Post subject:

The Celtics and now The Nets are head and shoulders above everyone else in the East.

The Nets have Kyrie, Durant and Harden.

The Celtics are 8-3 this year thus far, the Number 1 seed in the East and won 5 straight. All this without Kemba Walker, whom returns tonight.

So the Celtics big three is Kemba Walker, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown.
They also have solid role players like Marcus Smart, Tristan Thompson, Jeff Teague, Robert Williams, Payton Pritchard etc

They also have a TPE that could allow them to trade it straight up for Andre Drummond, if Cleveland decided they wanted to move him, which if they did, I'd say they are then the team we likely face in the Finals.



So the Celtics already match up well vs the Nets, and they have a TPE that would allow them to put themselves over the top.

A starting lineup of

Kemba Walker
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Tristan Thompson
Andre Drummond

with a coach like Brad Stevens and the role players they have, if they didn't make the Finals would be a shocker because the only team in the East that would stand a chance would be the Nets. So the Nets should be worrying about the Celtics before they worry about us.
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JaggedJimmyJay1
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:37 am    Post subject:

I'm not counting the Bucks out yet. I don't care what happened the last two seasons, and Jrue Holiday was a good pickup. Otherwise I agree the Nets and Celtics are the primary competitors in the East.

And Lakers fans won't be taking Brooklyn lightly by the end of the regular season. Nobody has to "fear" them; that's meaningless. But "they are going to be bad at defense" or "they won't gel" or "there's only one ball" or "they have no depth" -- none of those things strike me as good arguments. Superteams break the rules.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:42 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Their offensive power will be a sight to behold, but let's see what happens to that offense when those same players have to expend a ton of energy on defense, lacking other defensive anchors.


Yes indeed that’s true. I saw James Harden interview yesterday after the game. You can tell his focus is mainly on scoring and offense and no discussion about defense while you see Davis talks a lot about defense. 2 different approaches for sure.
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BILBJH
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:43 am    Post subject:

The Celtics are getting destroyed by the Knicks right now.

No Tatum, but still...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:19 pm    Post subject:

BILBJH wrote:
The Celtics are getting destroyed by the Knicks right now.

No Tatum, but still...

102-66 with 3 minutes left. Wow.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:
BILBJH wrote:
The Celtics are getting destroyed by the Knicks right now.

No Tatum, but still...

102-66 with 3 minutes left. Wow.


The year of weird blowouts continues.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Tatum's pretty important to them and Kemba is going to be playing himself into form. So they probably won't be full strength for a few months. They'll still likely be winning games though once Tatum returns.

But I'll never grow tired of watching the Celtics get owned, especially by former Lakers
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject:

We should attack Kyrie like Cavs did Steph (didn't they?)
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:14 pm    Post subject:

I haven't watched much pre-90s basketball so don't know about then, but we have never seen 3 super elite scorers in their primes, all on the same team. They may prove that elite offense can indeed overcome great defense, similar to how Golden State proved that relying on outside shooting can result in winning it all (of course they were a good defensive team too, but my point still stands).

What's proven though, is never bet against LeBron.

I want nothing but for the Lakers to repeat, but can't deny it is exciting to see if the best group of offensive talent ever assembled is enough to overcome great defense + chemistry + leadership + a very good offense.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:05 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
We should attack Kyrie like Cavs did Steph (didn't they?)

They have huge issues against us defensively.
First, harden would have to guard lebron or they have to sit joe Harris and start Jeff green.
The PNR or DS and Lebron is deadly.

KD would have to guard AD or Trezz sometimes, not ideal for a guy off Achilles injury.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:22 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
A starting lineup of

Kemba Walker
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Tristan Thompson
Andre Drummond

with a coach like Brad Stevens and the role players they have, if they didn't make the Finals would be a shocker because the only team in the East that would stand a chance would be the Nets. So the Nets should be worrying about the Celtics before they worry about us.


Doubt the Celtics bench Marcus Smart to go big. Spacing is very important for what Brad Stevens likes to do. Honestly. With no Drummond. 5 games. With Drummond 6 games. Celtics are the biggest eastern conference pretenders IMO. Tatum and Brown aren't even the level of shotmaker Caris Levert is. Nobody on that roster could guard Durant. But I could see them slowing down Harden.

Teams like Philly, Miami, and Milwaukee give Brooklyn a tougher matchup. BRK has nobody to slow down Centers like Embiid, Bam, or Greek Freak/B. Lopez. Unless they make a trade for a big (which is possible).
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:25 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
We should attack Kyrie like Cavs did Steph (didn't they?)


We need to trade for Deleware?

In other news, KD shooting 55% and 48% from threes is comical. I was hoping he wouldn't be back to form. He's not only back to form, but better than ever. Crazy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:48 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
MJST wrote:
A starting lineup of

Kemba Walker
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Tristan Thompson
Andre Drummond

with a coach like Brad Stevens and the role players they have, if they didn't make the Finals would be a shocker because the only team in the East that would stand a chance would be the Nets. So the Nets should be worrying about the Celtics before they worry about us.


Doubt the Celtics bench Marcus Smart to go big. Spacing is very important for what Brad Stevens likes to do. Honestly. With no Drummond. 5 games. With Drummond 6 games. Celtics are the biggest eastern conference pretenders IMO. Tatum and Brown aren't even the level of shotmaker Caris Levert is. Nobody on that roster could guard Durant. But I could see them slowing down Harden.

Teams like Philly, Miami, and Milwaukee give Brooklyn a tougher matchup. BRK has nobody to slow down Centers like Embiid, Bam, or Greek Freak/B. Lopez. Unless they make a trade for a big (which is possible).


Trading for big is not enough, they should also have wing defenders, but knowing that Kyrie and Harden will need to have minutes, getting a wing defender is almost useless. The main problem of nets besides rim protection is also their perineter defense. Harden and Kyrie almost let their man blow pass them in every possesion. That's one of the main problem of Cavs when Lebron was there, they need to cover for kyrie's defense. On this Nets, it's not only Kyrie, bit Harden too. KD might be a giod wing defender, but I as a bug man defender, he's bad.
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 6:14 pm    Post subject:

The meme of #TradeKyrie for Russ is hilarious

Poor Harden
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:44 am    Post subject:

The Nets may end up with the #1 or 2 rated offense in the NBA. They will be a very tough team to defend.

But to get through to the Finals, I think their D has to improve big time. They are currently 13th in the NBA on D, and that is with some defensive players that were helping them.

Once they surround Harden-Kyrie-Durant with 3nD guys, and the right set up, they can definitely win a title. But right now I do not see that at all. I see a team that will outscore many good teams and play solid D enough to get into the picture. When they play a team that has weapons and a balanced attack themselves with a superstar that can draw a lot of attention (example Milwaukee) I think they will get beat in a 7 game series. I do not think they even come out of the East, if Milwaukee and Boston are playing at their best in May. They will be there for sure, but I do not think they are at all balanced as a team on defense. It will get exposed, IMO.

My guess they make the ECF this year, and the championship may be theirs next year if everything goes well with the big 3 chemistry and they add some defensive weapons around them.
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PenG_
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject:

Kyrie aside, it's amusing that KD left GS to have "his team", but now he's second fiddle to Harden. Even though he'll be the first option, Harden is objectively the more impactful player. He's consistently ranked top 3 in RPM, PIPM, RAPTOR for several consecutive seasons, and will most certainly run the offense for the Nets.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
The Nets may end up with the #1 or 2 rated offense in the NBA. They will be a very tough team to defend.

But to get through to the Finals, I think their D has to improve big time. They are currently 13th in the NBA on D, and that is with some defensive players that were helping them.

Once they surround Harden-Kyrie-Durant with 3nD guys, and the right set up, they can definitely win a title. But right now I do not see that at all. I see a team that will outscore many good teams and play solid D enough to get into the picture. When they play a team that has weapons and a balanced attack themselves with a superstar that can draw a lot of attention (example Milwaukee) I think they will get beat in a 7 game series. I do not think they even come out of the East, if Milwaukee and Boston are playing at their best in May. They will be there for sure, but I do not think they are at all balanced as a team on defense. It will get exposed, IMO.

My guess they make the ECF this year, and the championship may be theirs next year if everything goes well with the big 3 chemistry and they add some defensive weapons around them.


Vegas has them as the heavy favorite to win the East, which means people are pricing in the inevitable addition of a more balanced roster.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:27 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
I haven't watched much pre-90s basketball so don't know about then, but we have never seen 3 super elite scorers in their primes, all on the same team. They may prove that elite offense can indeed overcome great defense, similar to how Golden State proved that relying on outside shooting can result in winning it all (of course they were a good defensive team too, but my point still stands).

What's proven though, is never bet against LeBron.

I want nothing but for the Lakers to repeat, but can't deny it is exciting to see if the best group of offensive talent ever assembled is enough to overcome great defense + chemistry + leadership + a very good offense.


The Brooklyn big 3 are more ball dominant than Golden State's former big 3. Klay can score 60+ without even dribbling the ball. One of Brooklyn's big 3 is definitely going to have to play more off-ball, and my guess would be KD. He had to learn to play more off-ball with GS and actually did a good job of it. He even became more of a rim protector for them.

I have no doubt they can make the adjustments, but Nash is the biggest wild card. There's a lot more pressure on him now and we don't know if he's a championship caliber coach.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Kyrie aside, it's amusing that KD left GS to have "his team", but now he's second fiddle to Harden. Even though he'll be the first option, Harden is objectively the more impactful player. He's consistently ranked top 3 in RPM, PIPM, RAPTOR for several consecutive seasons, and will most certainly run the offense for the Nets.


Harden's not more impactful than KD. Especially in the Playoffs. It's KD's team, just like the Warriors were.

Ziggy wrote:

The Brooklyn big 3 are more ball dominant than Golden State's former big 3. Klay can score 60+ without even dribbling the ball. One of Brooklyn's big 3 is definitely going to have to play more off-ball, and my guess would be KD. He had to learn to play more off-ball with GS and actually did a good job of it. He even became more of a rim protector for them.

I have no doubt they can make the adjustments, but Nash is the biggest wild card. There's a lot more pressure on him now and we don't know if he's a championship caliber coach.


D'Antoni is crafting an offense with KD at the 3, Harden at the 2 and Kyrie at the 1 and a pick and roll center at the 5.

This is the kind of stuff D'Antoni would have fantasies about.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:02 pm    Post subject:

offensively they are a juggernaut. but player series is about adjustments. i think it will be down to nash vs vogel rather than our line up vs their line up
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:47 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
The Celtics and now The Nets are head and shoulders above everyone else in the East.

The Nets have Kyrie, Durant and Harden.

The Celtics are 8-3 this year thus far, the Number 1 seed in the East and won 5 straight. All this without Kemba Walker, whom returns tonight.

So the Celtics big three is Kemba Walker, Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown.
They also have solid role players like Marcus Smart, Tristan Thompson, Jeff Teague, Robert Williams, Payton Pritchard etc

They also have a TPE that could allow them to trade it straight up for Andre Drummond, if Cleveland decided they wanted to move him, which if they did, I'd say they are then the team we likely face in the Finals.



So the Celtics already match up well vs the Nets, and they have a TPE that would allow them to put themselves over the top.

A starting lineup of

Kemba Walker
Jaylen Brown
Jayson Tatum
Tristan Thompson
Andre Drummond

with a coach like Brad Stevens and the role players they have, if they didn't make the Finals would be a shocker because the only team in the East that would stand a chance would be the Nets. So the Nets should be worrying about the Celtics before they worry about us.


Why are the Cavs doing a salary dump for a guy who just put up a 30/20 game? Pretty sure the Celtics need to attach some picks at the least....
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:34 pm    Post subject:

If the Nets somehow win the championship this year, It will feel very wrong. You have a bunch of unprofessional leaders leading the way Harden, Kyrie and Durant. Anyone but the Nets, I am even fine the Clippers winning it, they kept there mouth shut and just playing ball. Nets need to fail this year and show professionalism next year before I am fine for them winning. Just my 2 cents.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:52 pm    Post subject:

DLaker wrote:
If the Nets somehow win the championship this year, It will feel very wrong. You have a bunch of unprofessional leaders leading the way Harden, Kyrie and Durant. Anyone but the Nets, I am even fine the Clippers winning it, they kept there mouth shut and just playing ball. Nets need to fail this year and show professionalism next year before I am fine for them winning. Just my 2 cents.


How's Durant unprofessional?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:23 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Kyrie aside, it's amusing that KD left GS to have "his team", but now he's second fiddle to Harden. Even though he'll be the first option, Harden is objectively the more impactful player. He's consistently ranked top 3 in RPM, PIPM, RAPTOR for several consecutive seasons, and will most certainly run the offense for the Nets.


Harden's not more impactful than KD. Especially in the Playoffs. It's KD's team, just like the Warriors were.


That has been proven false by on/off data, but I don't disagree with either of his FMVP's, obviously.
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