Can the Lakers compete with BKN in the Finals?
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DrDent
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Halflife wrote:
DrDent wrote:
PenG_ wrote:
Either Bruce Brown got a lot better, or he's punching way above his weight.

Nets on a seven game win streak without their best player. Here I thought they were like the 2010 Heatles... just three max players and no bench.


They are "hot" right now as a team for sure. Technically, the current build is somewhat similar to what Harden had in Houston in prior years, so its not surprising they'd have success.

But yep, add KD in there and...eesh.

I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

someone is going to have to step back and play Bosh role. Who? None of those guys are great defenders like bosh and klay were.


Kyrie, Durant, and Harden are all ranked within the top 6 in ppp scored in isolation. 1.25ppp in isolation on high volume. If the offensive rating holds, their defense only needs to be ranked ~20th.


Until we see teams consistently abuse what the Nets have on defense (and maybe it happens in the playoffs), then what Pen states can hold true. I'm not just not certain they can keep up the rate they are going...but I've been wrong before.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:36 pm    Post subject:

They have a lot of offensive firepower but there is diminishing returns when all 3 are on the floor at one time. The team that is healthier will win. With AD at 100%, we can contain their offense but they won't be able to contain ours. AD's health is the big question.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:44 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
They have a lot of offensive firepower but there is diminishing returns when all 3 are on the floor at one time. The team that is healthier will win. With AD at 100%, we can contain their offense but they won't be able to contain ours. AD's health is the big question.


This. Nearly all of the superstars in the top 3 contending teams have health issues. AD, Kawhi, PG13, KD and Kyrie.

It will come down to which team's superstars are gonna be close to 100% come playoff time. So I'm with the camp that believes Bron should be held back a little bit during the regular season and it falls on the coaching staff to save Bron from himself and his quest to win another MVP.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:55 pm    Post subject:

Every championship level team has had a weakness. Brooklyn's is the glass. MDA won't be able to help himself. He's gonna have J. Green and Durant at the 5 for long stretches of the games in the playoffs.

Defense in a playoff series is relative to the offense you are playing against and vice versa. I'm not sure if anybody has the defenders to make Brooklyn average offensively in a series. Let alone below average. Play after play, quarter after quarter their stars are going to get better and better at finding the holes in the opposing team's defense. They've all made their careers doing that.
But if you shoot 10-15 more shots than them a game via rebounding and slowing down the pace of the game. They become more beatable. Even the best 3pt shooting role players start to tighten up when they know there only getting a small amount of attempts and every miss feels like it's giving the ball to the other team.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:21 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
They have a lot of offensive firepower but there is diminishing returns when all 3 are on the floor at one time. The team that is healthier will win. With AD at 100%, we can contain their offense but they won't be able to contain ours. AD's health is the big question.


Well, okay, but the question is whether our offense is really that good. Right now, our ORtg is 17th in the league. I think it was in that ballpark before Davis and Schroder went out. I don't mean to sound like Chicken Little, because I'm not. But Brooklyn doesn't need to contain our offense if it contains itself.

I have faith in the ability of the coaching staff to pull it together, just like they did last year. In a seven game series with time for adjustments, I'll take our brain trust over Nash and D'Antoni. Having said that, if our shooting doesn't become more consistent (with or without Davis), there is a legitimate concern that our defense won't be enough to overcome Brooklyn.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:46 pm    Post subject:

Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:05 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


They have a good defense in this losing streak, it's the offense that is lacking mainly because the #2 and #3 scorer are not playing.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:39 am    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


They have a good defense in this losing streak, it's the offense that is lacking mainly because the #2 and #3 scorer are not playing.


We need another playmaker even when Schroder's healthy because he ain't that. Rondo filled that role last year when Lebron sat. Right now, we have a bunch of serviceable but stationary shooters standing around with nobody to get them the ball when Lebron is resting.
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PenG_
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:19 am    Post subject:

Our offense is being bolstered by the first week of games. We have a 22nd ranked offense from the Pelicans game on 1/15 to the Nuggets game on 2/14. Even with AD and DS, the offense hasn't been good enough.

Per Lakers Exceptionalism Podcast:
Despite having Lebron, AD, and Trez, our post offense is ranked 14th in the league. It should be top 3 at worst.
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:11 am    Post subject:

Been saying it for awhile, our offense needs an overhaul. Vogel understandably focused on defense with the news guys as our identity.

But we are way underperforming on offense, too much standing around, Lebron/AD ISO ball. We need to get some of the same off ball cuts we had last year with Bradley, Lebron looking to set guys up more instead of what seems like more of a focus on scoring, etc.

But more than anything our shooting being absolute dumpster fire territory is the biggest issue. Was like that at the start of the bubble, and gradually improved - we have to hope for that or else it will be a big problem.
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lakersfan8
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:36 am    Post subject:

3baller wrote:
leking006 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


They have a good defense in this losing streak, it's the offense that is lacking mainly because the #2 and #3 scorer are not playing.


We need another playmaker even when Schroder's healthy because he ain't that. Rondo filled that role last year when Lebron sat. Right now, we have a bunch of serviceable but stationary shooters standing around with nobody to get them the ball when Lebron is resting.

The problem is the offensive strategy not the lack of playmaker. Nets and Clippers don’t have many playmakers yet their offensive flow is so much better. Our offensive talent is to much better this year but our coach doesn’t know how to use it. Such a waste
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roger_federer
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:41 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


we played one of the easiest schedule so far
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MJST
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:42 am    Post subject:

roger_federer wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


we played one of the easiest schedule so far


And against the "easiest schedule" we only managed to be the 18th best offensive team on them?

I feel like you said that to try to discredit our team's defense, but all it does if that was your idea, is make our offense look even worse.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:43 am    Post subject:

leking006 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


They have a good defense in this losing streak, it's the offense that is lacking mainly because the #2 and #3 scorer are not playing.


you don't need no 2and 3 to beat teams like GSW/WAS etc etc
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:45 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
roger_federer wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


we played one of the easiest schedule so far


And against the "easiest schedule" we only managed to be the 18th best offensive team on them?

I feel like you said that to try to discredit our team's defense, but all it does if that was your idea, is make our offense look even worse.


I meant, we are defending worse than no 2 suggests and playing worse than no 18 on offense.

look how bad we are struggling to beat DET/WAS/OKC etc.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject:

the only way to beat nets is by scoring well and put pressure on their defense. You can't win if you can't score well. they have 3 elite scorers.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject:

roger_federer wrote:
MJST wrote:
roger_federer wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


we played one of the easiest schedule so far


And against the "easiest schedule" we only managed to be the 18th best offensive team on them?

I feel like you said that to try to discredit our team's defense, but all it does if that was your idea, is make our offense look even worse.


I meant, we are defending worse than no 2 suggests and playing worse than no 18 on offense.

look how bad we are struggling to beat DET/WAS/OKC etc.


And a lot of that has to do with us not being able to buy a bucket when a team has momentum.

Basketball is a game of runs. The problem is when another team is going on one, our offense breaks down to standing around and watching LeBron launch 35 footers. That's problematic.

When AD and Schroeder are playing, we count on them to score on their own to make up for what everyone else isn't doing.

So its basically "Yeah our offensive scheme sucks, but we just let LeBron, AD or Dennis go off and hopefully that carries us to the finish line as our defense is already solid.".

That's been the strat, and we see how much that's actually helped us now without Schroeder and Davis to rely upon and LeBron essentially taking the offensive responsibility. No one else has a rhythm, no one else knows where they're supposed to be. Our offensive schemes seem like they've been lacking all year but we just got away with it because guys were shooting 54% and 48% from three and that isn't the case anymore.


Again, you watch a team such as the Nets and how their offense runs despite having 3 ball dominant superstars on their roster. Even with KD currently not playing, you see how the offense gets other guys open and flows. There isn't a bunch of standing around and doing nothing. That's why Joe Harris can go off for 20 one game, and Bruce Brown can go off for 30.

People get really pissed at the "offensive run" that the Nets are on, but a lot of credit to that has to do with their offensive schemes and execution. Which was the one thing we expected them to have, because D'Antoni is creating the offense.


The Lakers could use some of that offensive scheming. But Vogel's not an offensive coach, he's a defensive one, which is why we're 2nd in the league at it. With AD we're the 1st.

So even still, the more immediate focus should be upon improving our offense. Even without AD and DS, we need a better scheme than the ones we've been using.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:20 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Either Bruce Brown got a lot better, or he's punching way above his weight.

Nets on a seven game win streak without their best player. Here I thought they were like the 2010 Heatles... just three max players and no bench.


Well...that Harden guy is pretty good. His numbers through 18 games in Brooklyn (he missed one game post trade, which they lost):

25/11/8/1/1 on .502/.410/.878 shooting splits with a 25.5 PER, 66.2% TS%, .242 WS/48 and a 7.2 BPM

And Brooklyn is 13-5 in those games, including a 6-1 record against the league's 10 best teams as well as three straight wins against three of the West's best without Durant. Without Harden they went 7-7.

None of this should be surprising. They added one of the games best players, who is clearly capable of carrying a team.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:28 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:

They are "hot" right now as a team for sure. Technically, the current build is somewhat similar to what Harden had in Houston in prior years, so its not surprising they'd have success.

But yep, add KD in there and...eesh.

I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.


Harden never had this type of scoring/shooting help in Houston. Kyrie > CP3 on that front and he's used to shooters like Ariza or Tucker, not Harris. He's already getting more space than he got in Houston....without Durant. Five teammates in total shooting over 40%. In 8 seasons in Houston he had a teammate shoot 40% or better twice, and only two of them were starters.
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PenG_
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:41 pm    Post subject:

The Jazz and Nets have the 1st and 2nd easiest schedules of the post AS games.

I'm not having fun
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Kobetan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:23 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
The Jazz and Nets have the 1st and 2nd easiest schedules of the post AS games.

I'm not having fun


I'm not even kidding, but might be a good thing since the Nets actually play well against good teams and they coast through bad teams.

Jazz likely stay #1 unless Clippers manage to catch up
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:53 pm    Post subject:

Without changes to this roster, Lakers will not even make the 2nd round.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:15 pm    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
3baller wrote:
leking006 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Lakers Offense 18th In the League
Lakers Defense 2nd in the League

Laker fans: BUT WE NEED DEFENSE!!!!!!!


They have a good defense in this losing streak, it's the offense that is lacking mainly because the #2 and #3 scorer are not playing.


We need another playmaker even when Schroder's healthy because he ain't that. Rondo filled that role last year when Lebron sat. Right now, we have a bunch of serviceable but stationary shooters standing around with nobody to get them the ball when Lebron is resting.

The problem is the offensive strategy not the lack of playmaker. Nets and Clippers don’t have many playmakers yet their offensive flow is so much better. Our offensive talent is to much better this year but our coach doesn’t know how to use it. Such a waste


Harden leads the league in assists. Him, KD and Kyrie already combine for 22 assists per game. The clippers don't have a traditional point guard who playmakes for them but they have several guys who are decent playmakers. Kawhi, PG13, Batum + Reggie, Lou Williams off the bench.

All we have is Lebron(8apg) and Schroder(4apg). Caruso leads our bench unit on a whopping 2.4 APG. Playmaking, rim protection and legit 3pt shooting are the 3 holes in our roster that we need to fill.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 pm    Post subject:

Its all comes to one thing. Davis being healthy or not. If he is on 100% and focused we can compete with any team. If any of these two things are not in line we cannot. Simple as that.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:08 am    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
Its all comes to one thing. Davis being healthy or not. If he is on 100% and focused we can compete with any team. If any of these two things are not in line we cannot. Simple as that.


pretty much but we do need last year AD, the MVP/DPOY version
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