Kiki – Do we want him or not?

 
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Laker7
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Kiki – Do we want him or not?

Word out of Denver is that Kiki is done. Mark Warkentien is reportedly going to be the GM next year but Coach George Karl will be the man deciding who to trade / sign and Warkentien will be the facilitator. Warkentien has been a scout, director of scouting, director of player personnel and assistant general manager over the last 12 years prior to coming to Denver last year.

Kiki has done some good and some bad in Denver. To highlight:

-Traded an injured Antonio McDyess to the Knicks for Camby and the rights to Nene.
-Traded LaFrenz and Van Exel’s killer contracts to Denver for some junk that allowed Denver to get below the cap.
-Drafted Carmelo Anthony.
-Able to find serviceable backup bigs in Chris Anderson (before he went to the Hornets) and Fransico Elison.
-Signed Kenyon Martin away from New Jersey to a very expensive long-term contract.
-Signed Andre Miller and Earl Boykins to reasonable contacts.
-Signed Earl Watson to a full MLE contact even though he already had Miller and Boykin at the point.
-Has been unable to sign or trade for a reliable outside shooter to free up the paint for Camby, Martin and Melo.

If Mitch gets canned this off season, in your opinion:

1. Would Dr Buss hire Kiki?
2. If he did, would it be a good move?

What are your thoughts?


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DaggerInTheHeart
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject:

Hell yes i do.
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bambam
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject:

If the lakers plan on firing Mitch they need to do it ASAP!

Toronto is getting colangelo because they didnt wait till the offseason to fire babcock.
first come first serve. The lakers need to put feelers out right away..not wait till the last minute.
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ishi331
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject:

Anything other than (bleep) Kup Cake. A rock would be better.
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lakers2626
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:42 pm    Post subject:

There not going to fire Mitch because they didn't have high expectation for this season. Since we look like we might make it to the play-offs his job is pretty much secure.
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bambam
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:44 pm    Post subject:

lakers2626 wrote:
There not going to fire Mitch because they didn't have high expectation for this season. Since we look like we might make it to the play-offs his job is pretty much secure.


he should have been fired 2 or 3 years ago, this past deadline was his chance to make something happen.
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lakers2626
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject:

He should have gotten fired after last season.
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PiPisKobesByatch
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject:

dude.. i would take rudy garciduenas over mitch. i'm not even lying.
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Sister Golden Hair
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:59 pm    Post subject:

Kiki is a worth a roll of the dice if you can't get someone like Presti or Petrie.

SGH
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Laker7
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject:

While I don't think Kiki is the best (Dumars, Buford) , he does appear to be the best on the market. Unless Dr Buss has someone in the organization he is really confident in, IMO he will go for Kiki.
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RMurphy_22
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Kiki is over rated, notice how that team makes trades all the time and yet doesn't do sh*t. We need to stop bashing Mitch and see what happens this summer, and by the way Mitch is hardly the only guy making personnel decisions on the Lakers.

Go Lakers
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LAKERLVR
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject:

the PHX Gm should be on the market.
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lakers2626
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject:

RMurphy_22 wrote:
Kiki is over rated, notice how that team makes trades all the time and yet doesn't do sh*t. We need to stop bashing Mitch and see what happens this summer, and by the way Mitch is hardly the only guy making personnel decisions on the Lakers.

Go Lakers


I agree because Phil is one person that has to approve if any potential player can play in the triangle.
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Laker7
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject:

RMurphy_22 wrote:
Kiki is over rated, notice how that team makes trades all the time and yet doesn't do sh*t. We need to stop bashing Mitch and see what happens this summer, and by the way Mitch is hardly the only guy making personnel decisions on the Lakers.

Go Lakers


Disagree. Kiki put together a pretty good team but had a rookie coach (Bzdelik) who didn't know how to win and an experienced coach (Karl) who has a history of running under performing teams. While has not picked up the shooting guard many have expected him, he has done well in all other areas.
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Scherm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject:

People gripe about Mitch like he's going behind Jerry & Jimmy Buss' back to backstab them and take the team in a direction that's completely contrary to what ownership has directed. Or that he's in a war with Phil Jackson, refusing to bring in the players Phil wants.

Mitch is a caretaker, a steward, someone providing options to the Busses, working on scenarios for them to sign off on -- or to reject if they don't feel it's worth it. So far they haven't seen any options spectacular enough to get them off of their long range plan.

Yeah they're wasting Kobe's prime, but Kobe said publicly that he and Phil have another view of the situation than the fans and media. They think they're just a player or two away from really being able to go on a run.

To direct hatred at Mitch is the last refuge of people who are just plain frustrated with the position the Lakers are in. Kiki Vandeweghe would not be an answer. He hasn't exactly built a powerhouse there in Denver, and he's been handed a roster with 50 times more flexibility than the Lakers found themselves in post Shaq.

The GM isn't running the Laker franchise -- the owner is.

Hate is bad karma anyway .
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threetimechamps
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject:

mitch isnt going anywhere
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akula
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject:

It is time to get Jerry West back...like him or not, his Grizzles are a better team than us.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject:

I think he did great by trading Watson for Ruben and Evans. Expect both to be kept next season. Evans will replace Nene.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:53 pm    Post subject:

sadly, Mitch is unlikely to go anywhere.

Toughest job in professional sports to get: the Lakers
Toughest job in professional sports to get fired from: the Lakers
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Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:52 pm    Post subject:

Kiki wouldnt make a difference anyway, the GM role for the Lakers is a figurehead only, the position makes no critical decisions...Mitch is like the Queen of England, all show and no go!
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gill2k
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Pappy wrote:
Kiki wouldnt make a difference anyway, the GM role for the Lakers is a figurehead only, the position makes no critical decisions...Mitch is like the Queen of England, all show and no go!


Like Jerry West right? :roll:

IMO, GM's are rated on their ability to sell his decisions and visions to hisIMO, that's what Jerry did the best. He managed to sell Dr. Buss on acquiring Shaq and taking a chance on a kid straight outta high-school.

Mitch on the other hand can't even convince Buss that Artest is a good acquisition, that team desperately needs a change, or even close out deals.
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Pappy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject:

^post jerry west days of course...since the Phil/Jeanie camp verses Jimmy, verses Mitch, and the Docs influence, the org is a disaster! the old days of Jerry west and Jerry buss was the perfect ying and yang. now its a freakin circus and the team is paying the price. (as is the fans)
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:20 pm    Post subject:

Lakers make the playoffs, Mitch goes nowhere.

Phil thinks they will make the playoffs.
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loseyourname
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject:

I'll just copy what I posted in the Boozer thread:

Quote:
Why are people so high on Kiki? Since he's been the Denver GM, what has he done? The team has now underperformed expectations two years in a row. He traded for two glass men on the front line and drafted a third. He's had three top-ten draft picks and only came away with one guy that has had any significant impact on the team. He wasted his MLE about as much as we did this year signing a superfluous point guard that hardly ever played. He failed to acquire the shooter the team really needed to stretch the floor, both last year and this year (sound familiar?). He fired a guy that almost won coach of the year the season prior and hired an infamous franchise-killer who (surprise) started out with a huge bang only to lose his lustre as he has everywhere he's ever been. He basically wasted a huge amount of cap space on K-Mart, a player they arguably didn't even need, a move that resulted in the underutilization of Nene (and now both are perpetually injured).

He's made two moves that have really worked out for his franchise: acquiring Andre Miller and Earl Boykins. I'd give him credit for drafting Melo but that was the no-brainer move of the century next to drafting LeBron (which didn't make the fired Jim Paxson a good GM, either).

Now maybe you'll say "but that's more good moves than Mitch had made," since drafting Bynum is arguably the only really good thing he's done for the Lakers. However, is two good moves really that much better than one? Fire Mitch, fine. But why replace him with someone that has done no better? There have to be better options out there.


I actually forgot about the deal he just made, moving Watson for Evans and Patterson. I'm not sold that Patterson does anything for the team that Najera doesn't already do, but I like Evans. Still, I've seen a lot of spinning wheels around Denver without any real results. He certainly has a different style than Mitch (and I can understand why people would badly want a guy willing to wheel and deal a bit, and make bold moves), but that doesn't necessarily make him much of an upgrade by itself. I would have liked to have seen his moves result in a little bit more team success than it has. In particular, the use of cap space on Martin when they already had Nene, the signing of Watson when they already had Boykins and Miller, and the inability to acquire the shooter the team needs for two years now, bothers me a bit. I'm not sure he'd be a real upgrade and not just a "grass is greener" illusion.

That said, if he's the best on the market, the team has to at least take a look at him. It really seems like there has to be somebody better out there, though. Since he does seem to at least get deals done, maybe coupling him with a really good scouting department (which the Lakers do not seem to have right now) could result in a winning combination, since it's the chemistry and balance of the team he's put together that I really question. I don't question his ability to get moves done.
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Sidious
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject:

Mitch is merely the Buss's puppet, he ain't going anywhere. It's funny to me that you guys still think Mitch is responsible for everything that's going on like he's calling the shots. Like he's going behind the Buss's back and making these stupid moves or non moves. Yeah I'm sure Mitch is responsible for some of it. But ultimately this 07 plan crap is the Buss's vision, they're the ones calling the shots in the end.
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