Three Point Shooting Woe's
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Laker7
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:04 am    Post subject: Three Point Shooting Woe's

IMO the Lakers struggles over the last couple of weeks have been primarily due to a lack of three point shooting. I will use the first 7 games of the season and the last 7 games played to illustrate.

Team 3Pt Makes W/L with margin
LAC 9 Loss by 7
DAL 19 Win by 23
MIN 13 Win by 36
POR 10 Loss by 8
SAS 14 Win by 14
SAS 14 Win by 6
MEM 12 Win by 14

Anything with more than 10 3 points shots is an easy win

Last 7 Games
Team 3pt Makes W/L with margin
DEN 8 Win by 21
DET 9 Win by 6 (overtime)
OKC 9 Win by 7 (overtime)
OKC 10 Win by 1 (overtime)
DEN 6 Loss by 10
MIN 11 Win by 8
BKN 8 Loss by 11

While going 5-2 in both 7 game stretches, the margins are way better when we make more three's than with less three's.

This goes along with a noticeable slump from KCP, a lack of shooting from Gasol and Wes going to the bench. Defenses are also focusing on keeping AC and TNT out of the paint and forcing them to shoot perimeter shots.

The coaching staff IMO needs to focus on getting guys more open looks from the three point line.

Thoughts?
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BandwagonLBJhopper
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject:

The positive is we can compete even with the horrid shooting because of our defense

But holy hell is our shooting bad - KCP has been building a brick house for a month now and what's frustrating is our guys are missing straight wide open shots, like practice shots while other teams are burying contested threes all over the place

Maybe it's legs coming off the quick turnaround
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sonic the laker
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:49 am    Post subject:

Its funny, but the team as a whole was blistering from 3, to start the season. The only ones who were shooting poorly were Wes, Gasol, and Kuz. As the season progressed, the "shooting mojo" reversed. Wes is still shooting poorly. But, Gasol and Kuz are shooting well. And, the rest of the team's shooting has fallen off a cliff.

It doesn't help that the coaching staff has implemented ZERO offensive plays, that get the team involved. This was an issue when the team was healthy. Now, it's a bigger issue, now that we're missing key players. Vogel, and staff, have done a piss poor job of maximizing the talent on this team. For a stark example as to making the most of what you have, look at what Lue's been doing with the injured Clips. Huge contrast.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject:

BandwagonLBJhopper wrote:
The positive is we can compete even with the horrid shooting because of our defense

But holy hell is our shooting bad - KCP has been building a brick house for a month now and what's frustrating is our guys are missing straight wide open shots, like practice shots while other teams are burying contested threes all over the place

Maybe it's legs coming off the quick turnaround


Way to consider the positive... The fact of the matter is, NO-ONE on our team is considered 3-point threats or even shooters for that matter. We have streaky shooters at best. If someone gets hot then we go with the Hot-Hand (general rule of thumb for a non-shooting team) I think we won last year because of our Size and ability to defend on the perimeter and at the rim. I was very surprised at the off-season moves, but I understand there are two-sides to every coin.

In essence that's the flaw in our team currently that hurts us the most. Our defense collapses when a guards drives to the rim only to kick-out to an knock-down three point shooter. The collapse is there because we lack the ability in the paint to defend at the rim like we did last year with our long-athletic centers. IMO this is what the lakers need to fix prior to the deadline and hopefully get a shooter, which I doubt anyone wants to let one walk over to the Lakers camp. This will be interesting, however I still like our odds.
Losing to the NETS at this point in the season without KD means nothing right now, because at the end of the day, they simply can't defend.

Some Lakers fans won't like the options but it is what it is:
Andre Drummond
Blake Griffin

Hassan Whiteside
Dewayne Dedmon
Thon Maker

Are all names the lakers should be taking a long look at if they are bought out or we can pickup in Free-Agency. You'll notice I don't have any wing players in there because I honestly feel that:
Schoder+KCP+Caruso+Kuzma+Matthews
All become better wing defenders with confidence in their Bigs at the rim. There will be less of a need to help and sag off, where they can cut off the lanes and eliminate the ability to pass to an open shooter.

I think we're in a good place, but the Lakers FO have to make moves or else it's a stretch. I say we go hard after Blake for sure because he serves to purposes for us down the line, one is a stop-gap for AD while healing up and two is an adequate backup for LBJ when he needs to rest.
I believe Blake gets revitalized in the Purple and Gold and we see frequent shades of the Lob-City Blake with a more frequent ability to hit from the perimeter and mid-range.
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PenG_
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject:

Here are our 3 point stats since the Buck's game on 1/21.
14 games of data

Attempts : 27.6
League Ranking : 28th of 30 teams

3P% : 30.2%
League rank: 30th of 30 teams

It has been very, very bad.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:21 am    Post subject:

not overly concerned about the 3 point shooting. it is a long season, and we had a very short turn around. players go up and downs. as long as we can get decent shooting back around the playoffs, we will be a hard out.

KCP is losing confidence now, he was looking to pass instead of shooting, same goes for a lot of our players.
we will just need to weather the storm.
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windycitycane
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:18 pm    Post subject:

PenG_ wrote:
Here are our 3 point stats since the Buck's game on 1/21.
14 games of data

Attempts : 27.6
League Ranking : 28th of 30 teams

3P% : 30.2%
League rank: 30th of 30 teams

It has been very, very bad.


Thats not bad. That’s the worst in the league!

Amazing we are 22-8 with the embarrassment 3 point shooting.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:30 pm    Post subject:

We can’t get away with being this bad of a shooting team. We did last year because we were comfortably the best defense in the nba....not so much this year despite the #1 def efficiency ranking or whatever.

Right now we are bad at shooting and defense. Last year we were bad at shooting but at least we were the best defensive team.

We have to figure out something.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
We can’t get away with being this bad of a shooting team. We did last year because we were comfortably the best defense in the nba....not so much this year despite the #1 def efficiency ranking or whatever.

Right now we are bad at shooting and defense. Last year we were bad at shooting but at least we were the best defensive team.

We have to figure out something.


That's an interesting post to make. We weren't the best defensive team last year - not in the RS and not in the playoffs. Conversely, we are the best defensive team this season and by a comfortable margin (up 2 points per 100 poss on the Jazz).

But yeah, our 3 point shooting has taken a nose-dive. And as someone already mentioned, it's the wide-open shots that really hurt. I was watching Harris with jealousy.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Brawn13 wrote:
We can’t get away with being this bad of a shooting team. We did last year because we were comfortably the best defense in the nba....not so much this year despite the #1 def efficiency ranking or whatever.

Right now we are bad at shooting and defense. Last year we were bad at shooting but at least we were the best defensive team.

We have to figure out something.


I'm not worried about it.

We have the second best record, the #1 defense, and the #16th offense.

We are a great 2-point shooting team and a poor 3-point shooting team, but we are also one of the better defenders against 3-pointers. Same as last year.

The bottom line is the same as last year: If Lebron and AD are healthy, we will be contending for a ring through defense and overall efficiency, but we're not going to suddenly start shooting like prime-time Golden State Warriors.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject:

Last season we won lots of games with bad stretches of shooting. That's what defense will do for you
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:08 pm    Post subject:

Watching teams make 15 3s consistently just makes the game so much easier.

Warriors been winning games like that this season. They had a bunch come backs already when they were down 15+... Did it against the Lakers, Clippers, and Heat last game. They are doing it now against the Magic.

You just never out of the game when you can light it up from 3 at any time.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:15 pm    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
Watching teams make 15 3s consistently just makes the game so much easier.

Warriors been winning games like that this season. They had a bunch come backs already when they were down 15+... Did it against the Lakers, Clippers, and Heat last game. They are doing it now against the Magic.

You just never out of the game when you can light it up from 3 at any time.


The lakers don’t need to be the warriors or the nets, but just consistently knock down open looks at a league average would be huge. You can look at our shooters percentage and make the argument that they aren’t terrible. But it’s the consistency.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject:

I will add one more thing. Our shooters need to get shots up to get in rhythm as well. Last night Wes,poor, and Keiff combined for 8 attempts, while LBJ took 6 by himself.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:21 pm    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
miggz23 wrote:
Watching teams make 15 3s consistently just makes the game so much easier.

Warriors been winning games like that this season. They had a bunch come backs already when they were down 15+... Did it against the Lakers, Clippers, and Heat last game. They are doing it now against the Magic.

You just never out of the game when you can light it up from 3 at any time.


The lakers don’t need to be the warriors or the nets, but just consistently knock down open looks at a league average would be huge. You can look at our shooters percentage and make the argument that they aren’t terrible. But it’s the consistency.


Not saying we need the be the Nets or Warriors... I'm just pointing out it be nice we can knock down 3s more consistently. It will benefit Lebron more also. Our so called shooters just need to be more consistent. But I think we have a bunch streaky shooters than a knock down shooter.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:21 pm    Post subject:

This has been the theme for so many years now. We want players who can shoot 3s and defend but somehow they forget how to shoot after they get here
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:33 pm    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
This has been the theme for so many years now. We want players who can shoot 3s and defend but somehow they forget how to shoot after they get here


Yep.. Jason Kapono, DG, now Wes..
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject:

Offense > Defense, Brooklyn is living proof. They are winning it all this season
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Lakerz113
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:26 am    Post subject:

Kobetan wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
This has been the theme for so many years now. We want players who can shoot 3s and defend but somehow they forget how to shoot after they get here


Yep.. Jason Kapono, DG, now Wes..


Don’t forget Bullock.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:38 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
This has been the theme for so many years now. We want players who can shoot 3s and defend but somehow they forget how to shoot after they get here


Yep.. Jason Kapono, DG, now Wes..


Don’t forget Bullock.


Or Muscala. Did he even make a 3 at Staples? It felt like he shot 10%.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:46 am    Post subject:

chrisca91 wrote:
Offense > Defense, Brooklyn is living proof. They are winning it all this season


They aren't
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:09 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
chrisca91 wrote:
Offense > Defense, Brooklyn is living proof. They are winning it all this season


They aren't


Tbh we hear this every year and every year it’s still defense that wins championships.

Could the Nets win it all? Sure, but it’s likely that it will be a with a totally new roster after additions at trade deadline or buyout. The current team doesn’t have enough defense to win it all. They won’t make all these 3s in the playoffs.

Golden State was always misconstrued. When they won, they were pretty strong defensively.

KC Chiefs won when their defense was actually pretty good. This season Tampa Bay took out the best offensive team, the one that can put up 21 points in less than 5 min with all those weapons.

Defense still wins, as long as you are elite in that area and not anemic on offense.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:32 am    Post subject:

Lakerz113 wrote:
Kobetan wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
This has been the theme for so many years now. We want players who can shoot 3s and defend but somehow they forget how to shoot after they get here


Yep.. Jason Kapono, DG, now Wes..


Don’t forget Bullock.


It's funny how people have this perception. Wes for example is shooting at about his career norm. He's shooting 37.3% from 3s compared to his career average of 38.1%.

And there are plenty of guys who joined us and shot as well or better for as they did previously -- KCP, Bradley, Rondo, Lance Stephenson, Brook Lopez, Steve Blake, Nick Young. Steve Nash.

I don't see a true pattern of players degrading as a 3-point shooters once they put on a Lakers jersey, though of course you can always cherry pick a handful of examples.

I think people remember the guys who struggle and forget the guys who do OK (plus I think some Lakers fans tend to think guys are better shooters than they are,, and often judge them by their career high rather than their career norm, so when they give a typical performance, the fans are disappointed.)

Our problem isn't that guys are shooting unusually poor. It's that our roster doesn't have great shooters, and they are performing overall pretty typically.

I think Matthews at 38.1% has the highest career 3-point average of the rotation players; I am not sure if any other rotation player is even above 36% for their career
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:06 pm    Post subject:

KCP and Caruso were each tops in the league at one point. I'm sure both of them will get going again, plus we can count on Matthews and Kieff to hit the 3-ball too when needed.

3pt shooting is and always has been a streaky proposition. Would never want to rely on it to win games.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:04 pm    Post subject:

Last 7 Games 3 Point Shooting(from worst to best)

THT
38% Field Goal
0% from Three (on 1.6 per game)

Anthony Davis
55% Field Goal
13% from Three (on 2 per game)

KCP
37% Field Goal
20% from Three (on 3 per game)

Caruso
44% Field Goal
20% from Three (on 2 per game)

LeBron James
54% Field Goal
24% from Three (on 6 per game)

Kyle Kuzma
50% Field Goal
30% from Three (on 5 per game)

*Dennis Schröder
51% Field Goal
33% from Three (on 2.6 per game)


Wes Matthews
35% Field Goal
39% from Three (on 3 per game)

Marc Gasol
48% Field Goal
47% from Three (on 3 per game)


*this is deceptive however, because if you include his game prior(where he was 1-1) his 3 point percentage goes from 33% up to 37%, so you could argue he's actually been good from three during this stretch
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Last edited by MJST on Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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