ANDRE DRUMMOND - Thanks for 21 games (signs with Philly)
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HermosaJoe
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:06 am    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
lurklurk wrote:
King Randle wrote:
lurklurk wrote:
King Randle wrote:
lurklurk wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Again I commend Pelinka for realizing the mistake they made by not prioritizing and letting Dwight go...by signing Drummond. They realized no way they win the title with Gasol and Trez. Drummond is a great up grade to the point were Vogel wants to keep him long term. This makes AD’s job easier were he doesn’t need to hang against bigs when he comes back. Sure he may play some minutes at 5....but with AD2 who moves his feet well you can spare AD. Outstanding job Rob and because of this move u just about sealed a repeat!!!! Kudos!!!


LOL there was absolutely no mistake and people insisting this are not paying attention:

1. Dwight decided to leave and sign with the sixers
2. Dwight leaving did not impact our defense negatively in any way
3. Both marc and trez are better than dwight
4. It’s well known by gm’s that there will be an abundance of bigs in this year’s buyout season. Same reason why dedmon was signed only after everyone else. Pelinka simply waited for the best big to be available.

Pelinka was on top of this since day 1.


Keep telling yourself that....Sam Amick reported the FO realized the mistake they made when they signed Gasol....Dwight was huge for them last year and the reason the FO atoned for their mistake and got Drummond. Your clueless but thanks for playing. Pelinka realized the mistake....Vogel is on record saying Drummond is here for the long haul. No way in hell they win the title with Gasol as the starting center and the FO realized that. Again I commend Rob on recognizing a mistake.


Amick reported about lakers disappointment on Gasol, not “letting dwight go is a mistake”. Way to twist words to fit your narrative. And we wouldve still signed Drummond even if we have dwight instead of marc. 35 year old dwight howard is not any more a starter for a championship squad than marc is.


Okay...thanks for your input

Your argument hinges on that one amick report. Either you misinterpreted it or you drew an incorrect conclusion and ran with it. Maybe take the quotes on face value next time instead of trying to read beyond the lines which clearly isnt one of your strong suits.


Sam Amick said they were disappointed in Gasol....Vogel said they needed rim protection and interior defense. Do the math Einstein. Never heard a complaint about Dwight last year...If anything praise. That ship has sailed. Again they got Drummond cuz they realized Gasol didn’t cut it. That’s it...no more to this. No need to respond...agree to disagree. Pelinka realized a weakness and took action.


I agree, KingR.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:09 am    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
question, so yeah i know there is only so much we can offer drummond (mid level at $9M?) but can we go into luxury tax territory and sign him for more, if needed?

i know the tax is brutal, but didn't jeanie say she was willing to pay it if a player is a key piece? i'd think drumond qualifies as a "key piece" depending on how he does with us this season.


All we can offer is the mini-MLE which is around $6M - irrespective of the luxury tax. The only way we can offer more is if we gut the team i.e. no DS, KCP, Kuz, Kieff

Id gladly get rid of all of he above including Caruso to keep drummond.

the most we can offer him even with all that is 20-22 mil which probably won't be enough. let's just say enjoy him while it last. it is unrealistic to expect a star in his prime to take less money and stay with us. he is only 27 years old, so he will be looking for a max contract.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject:

PayasoLoco wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
question, so yeah i know there is only so much we can offer drummond (mid level at $9M?) but can we go into luxury tax territory and sign him for more, if needed?

i know the tax is brutal, but didn't jeanie say she was willing to pay it if a player is a key piece? i'd think drumond qualifies as a "key piece" depending on how he does with us this season.


All we can offer is the mini-MLE which is around $6M - irrespective of the luxury tax. The only way we can offer more is if we gut the team i.e. no DS, KCP, Kuz, Kieff

Id gladly get rid of all of he above including Caruso to keep drummond.


You really think those players would be worse than their vet min replacements? I love Dre and all but except for DS, all of those players have championship experience. I'd much rather find another big to replace Drummond.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:16 am    Post subject:

ThePageDude wrote:
King Randle wrote:
ThePageDude wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
question, so yeah i know there is only so much we can offer drummond (mid level at $9M?) but can we go into luxury tax territory and sign him for more, if needed?

i know the tax is brutal, but didn't jeanie say she was willing to pay it if a player is a key piece? i'd think drumond qualifies as a "key piece" depending on how he does with us this season.


All we can offer is the mini-MLE which is around $6M - irrespective of the luxury tax. The only way we can offer more is if we gut the team i.e. no DS, KCP, Kieff, Gasol


You know it is possible we lose DS to more money...KCP maybe traded...Kief we have bird rights and Gasol may retire. I know it's a stretch...but if Drummond makes a big difference and really likes it here (it appears he does), then maybe Pelinka gets creative and get him more $ and there are also numerous endorsement deals he could get here. Wishful thinking on my part.


Even with what you're saying it's not going to work because of something called "cap holds". See below:

LBJ + AD + Deng = 41 + 35 + 5 = 81
Kieff = 3 (cap hold)
Kuz = 13 (cap hold)
THT = 2 (cap hold)
AC = 3 (cap hold)
DS , KCP, Harrell, Gasol, McKinnie, Dudley, Wes = 0 (either gone or traded for $0 or retired)
Empty Roster Charges = 7 * 0.9 = 6 (cap-holds)
--------
Total = 108 against a cap of 109

Which means the most Drummond can be paid is $6 million, UNLESS, IN ADDITION TO THE ABOVE Kuz is also traded for $0. If Kuz too is dumped then yes Drummond could be paid $14 million.


Wow...thanks for the breakdown....it's definitely going to mean Drummond will have to accept a huge pay cut for 2 years and then get a good deal. Not likely unfortunately. His agent must have informed him of this yet he still chose us....So much uncertainty...lets enjoy the present I guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:39 am    Post subject:

It will be a long time before the league sees a team with three max players plus the depth that we have. Drummond is definitely a max player.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:55 am    Post subject:

The guy is a good screener. Doesn't show up in the box score. But a broken play late in the shot clock can turn into an open shot real quick if a big can consistently set good screens without getting fouls (looking at you Dwight).
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:04 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
It will be a long time before the league sees a team with three max players plus the depth that we have. Drummond is definitely a max player.


I doubt he gets the max. But he will certainly command much more than 6m/year. I think he's in the 15-18m range for a center who can't spread the floor.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, there is no way this works unless Drummond takes the full 6m, and then tries to stick long term with the Lakers having his Early Bird Rights the next offseason. Then, it's what, 175% of the previous season so it's only 10.5m we could offer in the 2022 offseason to him.

He's going to look really good on this team when LBJ/AD return. He looked great against the Nets. Some team is going to easily triple the 6m on him this offseason.


That's why winning this year will be even more important.

He gets a taste of a good organization for the first time in his career, he gets a chance to continue being with an historically great organization with Lebron and AD, with a promise of getting PAID the year after in a long term contract.

Again, I have low expectations of it working even then, but winning the title this year should help his case of staying I would think.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, there is no way this works unless Drummond takes the full 6m, and then tries to stick long term with the Lakers having his Early Bird Rights the next offseason. Then, it's what, 175% of the previous season so it's only 10.5m we could offer in the 2022 offseason to him.

He's going to look really good on this team when LBJ/AD return. He looked great against the Nets. Some team is going to easily triple the 6m on him this offseason.


That's why winning this year will be even more important.

He gets a taste of a good organization for the first time in his career, he gets a chance to continue being with an historically great organization with Lebron and AD, with a promise of getting PAID the year after in a long term contract.

Again, I have low expectations of it working even then, but winning the title this year should help his case of staying I would think.


I'm with you!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:17 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
Megaton wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, there is no way this works unless Drummond takes the full 6m, and then tries to stick long term with the Lakers having his Early Bird Rights the next offseason. Then, it's what, 175% of the previous season so it's only 10.5m we could offer in the 2022 offseason to him.

He's going to look really good on this team when LBJ/AD return. He looked great against the Nets. Some team is going to easily triple the 6m on him this offseason.


That's why winning this year will be even more important.

He gets a taste of a good organization for the first time in his career, he gets a chance to continue being with an historically great organization with Lebron and AD, with a promise of getting PAID the year after in a long term contract.

Again, I have low expectations of it working even then, but winning the title this year should help his case of staying I would think.


I'm with you!!!


The most we can give him is 9.5, and that's if we trade KCP and let harrell and schröder go.

So is drummond worth KCP/Schröder/Harrell?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Megaton wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yeah, there is no way this works unless Drummond takes the full 6m, and then tries to stick long term with the Lakers having his Early Bird Rights the next offseason. Then, it's what, 175% of the previous season so it's only 10.5m we could offer in the 2022 offseason to him.

He's going to look really good on this team when LBJ/AD return. He looked great against the Nets. Some team is going to easily triple the 6m on him this offseason.


That's why winning this year will be even more important.

He gets a taste of a good organization for the first time in his career, he gets a chance to continue being with an historically great organization with Lebron and AD, with a promise of getting PAID the year after in a long term contract.

Again, I have low expectations of it working even then, but winning the title this year should help his case of staying I would think.


I'm with you!!!


The most we can give him is 9.5, and that's if we trade KCP and let harrell and schröder go.

So is drummond worth KCP/Schröder/Harrell?


Definitely steep....that's the starting backcourt and the first big off the bench. We'll probably lose Trez anyways and there's a possibility we lose DS...so then maybe you do trade KCP....tough decisions.
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AD23
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:03 pm    Post subject:

Is it the toe injury or has Drummond lost some of his vertical?

I remember he had some good lift but he doesn't get off the ground much anymore.

Love having him on the team nonetheless.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:44 pm    Post subject:

AD23 wrote:
Is it the toe injury or has Drummond lost some of his vertical?

I remember he had some good lift but he doesn't get off the ground much anymore.

Love having him on the team nonetheless.


Noticed the same - Especially after taking some contact.

Maybe that fast twitch will come back as he continues to get minutes.
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governator
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:14 pm    Post subject:

From Empkay article:

Drummond is willing to re-sign for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($9.5 million), locking the Lakers into a hard cap:

Schroder re-signs at a $19 million starting salary
Trade Caldwell-Pope and Gasol to a team with cap room or a trade exception
Trade the 2021 first-rounder
Harrell leaves as a free agent
Only one of Horton-Tucker and Caruso re-sign at $6.5 million
Eight players at the minimum
Payroll: ~$142.9 million
Luxury tax: ~9.8 million -- discounted to ~$6.6 million
Total: $149.5 million
The Lakers keep both Drummond and Schroder. The total payroll (including tax) increases by a very reasonable ~$9.2 million, but Harrell, Gasol and one of Horton-Tucker/Caruso are lost.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:18 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
From Empkay article:

Drummond is willing to re-sign for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($9.5 million), locking the Lakers into a hard cap:

Schroder re-signs at a $19 million starting salary
Trade Caldwell-Pope and Gasol to a team with cap room or a trade exception
Trade the 2021 first-rounder
Harrell leaves as a free agent
Only one of Horton-Tucker and Caruso re-sign at $6.5 million
Eight players at the minimum
Payroll: ~$142.9 million
Luxury tax: ~9.8 million -- discounted to ~$6.6 million
Total: $149.5 million
The Lakers keep both Drummond and Schroder. The total payroll (including tax) increases by a very reasonable ~$9.2 million, but Harrell, Gasol and one of Horton-Tucker/Caruso are lost.


Why is a player like Drummond willing to settle for the MLE?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:39 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
governator wrote:
From Empkay article:

Drummond is willing to re-sign for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($9.5 million), locking the Lakers into a hard cap:

Schroder re-signs at a $19 million starting salary
Trade Caldwell-Pope and Gasol to a team with cap room or a trade exception
Trade the 2021 first-rounder
Harrell leaves as a free agent
Only one of Horton-Tucker and Caruso re-sign at $6.5 million
Eight players at the minimum
Payroll: ~$142.9 million
Luxury tax: ~9.8 million -- discounted to ~$6.6 million
Total: $149.5 million
The Lakers keep both Drummond and Schroder. The total payroll (including tax) increases by a very reasonable ~$9.2 million, but Harrell, Gasol and one of Horton-Tucker/Caruso are lost.


Why is a player like Drummond willing to settle for the MLE?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:45 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
It will be a long time before the league sees a team with three max players plus the depth that we have. Drummond is definitely a max player.


Not in today's NBA. Not anymore. As for your first sentence, the Nets fits that description better.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:00 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
From Empkay article:

Drummond is willing to re-sign for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($9.5 million), locking the Lakers into a hard cap:

Schroder re-signs at a $19 million starting salary
Trade Caldwell-Pope and Gasol to a team with cap room or a trade exception
Trade the 2021 first-rounder
Harrell leaves as a free agent
Only one of Horton-Tucker and Caruso re-sign at $6.5 million
Eight players at the minimum
Payroll: ~$142.9 million
Luxury tax: ~9.8 million -- discounted to ~$6.6 million
Total: $149.5 million
The Lakers keep both Drummond and Schroder. The total payroll (including tax) increases by a very reasonable ~$9.2 million, but Harrell, Gasol and one of Horton-Tucker/Caruso are lost.


Outstanding break down....I would do it....despite how much it would hurt to lose AC....you’re talking about Drummond. And you keep DS and THT and I assume Kuz....fill the roster with min guys willing to win a title.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:27 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
From Empkay article:

Drummond is willing to re-sign for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($9.5 million), locking the Lakers into a hard cap:

Schroder re-signs at a $19 million starting salary
Trade Caldwell-Pope and Gasol to a team with cap room or a trade exception
Trade the 2021 first-rounder
Harrell leaves as a free agent
Only one of Horton-Tucker and Caruso re-sign at $6.5 million
Eight players at the minimum
Payroll: ~$142.9 million
Luxury tax: ~9.8 million -- discounted to ~$6.6 million
Total: $149.5 million
The Lakers keep both Drummond and Schroder. The total payroll (including tax) increases by a very reasonable ~$9.2 million, but Harrell, Gasol and one of Horton-Tucker/Caruso are lost.


I think I'd do it. Harrell is gone anyway, Gasol will probably retire, we can replace Caruso.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:38 pm    Post subject:

I actually prefer Scenario 3. Having that depth and strength in the front court with Trez and Drummond are key to me. I think THT is ready to take that next step to be the starting SG. Let Schroder go and bring in a vet like Kyle Lowry (or perhaps Dragic, Rose, Conley) if he's willing to take something less.


Drummond is willing to re-sign for the non-taxpayer mid-level exception ($9.5 million), locking the Lakers into a hard cap:

Schroder leaves as a free agent

Trade Caldwell-Pope to a team with cap room or a trade exception

Trade the 2021 first-rounder

Harrell returns at $11.1 million

Caruso and Horton-Tucker re-sign at a combined $15 million starting salary
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:41 pm    Post subject:

Assuming that Drummond isn't willing to take a discount to stay with the Lakers like Rondo this year, who are potential Andre Drummonds next year?

Have to believe Rob will game out different options so I wonder who he's got on his list of potential trade or buyout candidates for bigs.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:47 pm    Post subject:

bluehill wrote:
Assuming that Drummond isn't willing to take a discount to stay with the Lakers like Rondo this year, who are potential Andre Drummonds next year?

Have to believe Rob will game out different options so I wonder who he's got on his list of potential trade or buyout candidates for bigs.


There really isn't one. PJ Tucker will definitely be a target. Maybe bring back Javale if he opts out.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:24 pm    Post subject:

bluehill wrote:
Assuming that Drummond isn't willing to take a discount to stay with the Lakers like Rondo this year, who are potential Andre Drummonds next year?

Have to believe Rob will game out different options so I wonder who he's got on his list of potential trade or buyout candidates for bigs.

Drummond is a 27 year budding star. Max to close to max player. You don’t get those from the buyout markets very often
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:53 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
bluehill wrote:
Assuming that Drummond isn't willing to take a discount to stay with the Lakers like Rondo this year, who are potential Andre Drummonds next year?

Have to believe Rob will game out different options so I wonder who he's got on his list of potential trade or buyout candidates for bigs.

Drummond is a 27 year budding star. Max to close to max player. You don’t get those from the buyout markets very often


Good points. Assuming Rob wasn't really expecting to get an all-star center through a buyout, who would be potentially available that would be more on the level of a Dwight/McGee replacement rather than a Gasol replacement?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:18 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
bluehill wrote:
Assuming that Drummond isn't willing to take a discount to stay with the Lakers like Rondo this year, who are potential Andre Drummonds next year?

Have to believe Rob will game out different options so I wonder who he's got on his list of potential trade or buyout candidates for bigs.

Drummond is a 27 year budding star. Max to close to max player. You don’t get those from the buyout markets very often


Budding star?

He's a two-time all-star who has led the league in rebounding four times.

He's already budded. If anything, he's a flower that's starting to fade because the things he does well aren't valued as highly as they were when he got his last big contract.

Right now, he's probably about the 10th best center in the league. I'd say he's the top guy in a tier with Clint Capela, Steven Adams, and Al Horford.

He's pretty much out of upside, and I doubt anyone throws him close to the max. Probably closer to the $14-18 million range.
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