Mass shooting at Colorado supermarket; (10 dead)
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:55 am    Post subject:

I'm for instant repeal and recall of all AR style weapons from the public, but at the same time, we already let Pandora out of that box and we're flooded with those guns to the extent that even making those guns illegal and recalling them like the govt recalled gold during the Depression, it'll take decades to even put a dent into the population. Sad to say. I'm close to the Sbdno shooters who got at least one of their rifles from their idiot neighbor. I'm 100% for making them all illegal to own just the same, but how many of them are in this nation today?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:33 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
I'm for instant repeal and recall of all AR style weapons from the public, but at the same time, we already let Pandora out of that box and we're flooded with those guns to the extent that even making those guns illegal and recalling them like the govt recalled gold during the Depression, it'll take decades to even put a dent into the population. Sad to say. I'm close to the Sbdno shooters who got at least one of their rifles from their idiot neighbor. I'm 100% for making them all illegal to own just the same, but how many of them are in this nation today?


Unfortunately there's no possible way to rid ourselves of all the "assault style" weapons out there. We just don't have a population or a government with the wisdom and maturity to do that. All we can do is ban future sales, put restrictions on those weapons out there such as where they can and can't be used (no public use, only private land and ranges), how and where they can be transported, limit private sales (one idea I like is that current owners can only sell their guns back to state and federal authorities) and find ways to encourage people to turn them in through buy back programs. Sadly, the odds of those things happening is nil for the reasons mentioned above.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:05 am    Post subject:

We're a country built on violence. We've been running on a war economy since around 1941. We pay exorbitant amounts of money to see men and women knock each other silly for entertainment. Our kid's video games are violent. Guns are a part of American culture.

It's a malady that can be cured but like Rome, not in a day. Voters have to make the change at the ballot box. Movements to rid ourselves of representatives who won't ban assault rifles and such weapons should become a movement.

It'll take time but quoting Spock, “Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:35 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
I'm for instant repeal and recall of all AR style weapons from the public, but at the same time, we already let Pandora out of that box and we're flooded with those guns to the extent that even making those guns illegal and recalling them like the govt recalled gold during the Depression, it'll take decades to even put a dent into the population. Sad to say. I'm close to the Sbdno shooters who got at least one of their rifles from their idiot neighbor. I'm 100% for making them all illegal to own just the same, but how many of them are in this nation today?


Unfortunately there's no possible way to rid ourselves of all the "assault style" weapons out there. We just don't have a population or a government with the wisdom and maturity to do that. All we can do is ban future sales, put restrictions on those weapons out there such as where they can and can't be used (no public use, only private land and ranges), how and where they can be transported, limit private sales (one idea I like is that current owners can only sell their guns back to state and federal authorities) and find ways to encourage people to turn them in through buy back programs. Sadly, the odds of those things happening is nil for the reasons mentioned above.


Making possession a felony with serious mandatory prison time and you’ll reduce numbers quickly and steadily. Gun control laws work if you enforce them. We don’t make murder legal just because people still commit them, time to stop taking that tactic with guns that have no legitimate purpose.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:18 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
I'm for instant repeal and recall of all AR style weapons from the public, but at the same time, we already let Pandora out of that box and we're flooded with those guns to the extent that even making those guns illegal and recalling them like the govt recalled gold during the Depression, it'll take decades to even put a dent into the population. Sad to say. I'm close to the Sbdno shooters who got at least one of their rifles from their idiot neighbor. I'm 100% for making them all illegal to own just the same, but how many of them are in this nation today?


Unfortunately there's no possible way to rid ourselves of all the "assault style" weapons out there. We just don't have a population or a government with the wisdom and maturity to do that. All we can do is ban future sales, put restrictions on those weapons out there such as where they can and can't be used (no public use, only private land and ranges), how and where they can be transported, limit private sales (one idea I like is that current owners can only sell their guns back to state and federal authorities) and find ways to encourage people to turn them in through buy back programs. Sadly, the odds of those things happening is nil for the reasons mentioned above.


Making possession a felony with serious mandatory prison time and you’ll reduce numbers quickly and steadily. Gun control laws work if you enforce them. We don’t make murder legal just because people still commit them, time to stop taking that tactic with guns that have no legitimate purpose.


Sure, and I'd be all for it. But you can't enforce laws you haven't put on the books. And you can I both know that a law such as that is never going to happen in this country. This isn't Australia where you can simply ban guns already in people's possession without insurmountable political and public backlash We simply don't have the legislative and judicial bodies with the integrity and will to push through such laws. It's a sad cliche, but if we didn't see such action after Sandy Hook, we never will.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:35 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
I'm for instant repeal and recall of all AR style weapons from the public, but at the same time, we already let Pandora out of that box and we're flooded with those guns to the extent that even making those guns illegal and recalling them like the govt recalled gold during the Depression, it'll take decades to even put a dent into the population. Sad to say. I'm close to the Sbdno shooters who got at least one of their rifles from their idiot neighbor. I'm 100% for making them all illegal to own just the same, but how many of them are in this nation today?


Unfortunately there's no possible way to rid ourselves of all the "assault style" weapons out there. We just don't have a population or a government with the wisdom and maturity to do that. All we can do is ban future sales, put restrictions on those weapons out there such as where they can and can't be used (no public use, only private land and ranges), how and where they can be transported, limit private sales (one idea I like is that current owners can only sell their guns back to state and federal authorities) and find ways to encourage people to turn them in through buy back programs. Sadly, the odds of those things happening is nil for the reasons mentioned above.


Making possession a felony with serious mandatory prison time and you’ll reduce numbers quickly and steadily. Gun control laws work if you enforce them. We don’t make murder legal just because people still commit them, time to stop taking that tactic with guns that have no legitimate purpose.


Sure, and I'd be all for it. But you can't enforce laws you haven't put on the books. And you can I both know that a law such as that is never going to happen in this country. This isn't Australia where you can simply ban guns already in people's possession without insurmountable political and public backlash We simply don't have the legislative and judicial bodies with the integrity and will to push through such laws. It's a sad cliche, but if we didn't see such action after Sandy Hook, we never will.


Sadly I agree, I was just addressing the earlier points about us having too many out there to do anything about.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:05 pm    Post subject:

I counter with: Most people who own guns don't go on shooting sprees.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:16 pm    Post subject:

FernieBee wrote:
I counter with: Most people who own guns don't go on shooting sprees.


There is a long continuum between ban all guns and the current system. We could try some common sense bans of guns that aid mass casualty capability and serve no other useful purpose, along with ensuring that access and carry is limited to people who pass checks, complete training, and have legit need.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:28 pm    Post subject:

The VAST majority of all gun deaths are in handguns -- suicides and gang violence. That's where common sense gun control tells me we should focus.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:29 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
FernieBee wrote:
I counter with: Most people who own guns don't go on shooting sprees.


There is a long continuum between ban all guns and the current system. We could try some common sense bans of guns that aid mass casualty capability and serve no other useful purpose, along with ensuring that access and carry is limited to people who pass checks, complete training, and have legit need.

Like we do for grenade launchers and rocket launchers and tanks.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:43 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
The VAST majority of all gun deaths are in handguns -- suicides and gang violence. That's where common sense gun control tells me we should focus.


There’s a strong argument for vastly limiting ownership/carry of handguns because of their extreme portability and concealability. The issue of assault weapons is their multiple casualty lethality. And the fact that they don’t have a real legitimate civilian purpose, which you can argue for a handgun. But limiting who can have guns and where is critical when you consider that most firearm deaths happen from a gun owned by the victim or someone close to them.

Fwiw, the NRA/GOP like to tout Chicago as a lesson that tough laws don’t work, but the reality is that a significant portion of guns used in Chicago homicides come from Indiana, where they have some of the most lax gun laws in the nation, which argues that it isn’t Chicago’s failed laws so much as the lack of them in surrounding communities that’s the larger issue. Chicago is evidence of the need for federal standards.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Besides, gang members don't care about gun laws. I figure they get their guns on the black market or by stealing them.

If you have enough money or the right connections, you don't need to acquire a gun in your name. The problem comes when you don't know (or don't care) how many bodies that gun has dropped, which only matters if you get caught with said gun.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:58 pm    Post subject:

FernieBee wrote:
Besides, gang members don't care about gun laws. I figure they get their guns on the black market or by stealing them.

If you have enough money or the right connections, you don't need to acquire a gun in your name. The problem comes when you don't know (or don't care) how many bodies that gun has dropped, which only matters if you get caught with said gun.


The black market is greatly affected by gun laws.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:21 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
DuncanIdaho wrote:
The VAST majority of all gun deaths are in handguns -- suicides and gang violence. That's where common sense gun control tells me we should focus.


There’s a strong argument for vastly limiting ownership/carry of handguns because of their extreme portability and concealability. The issue of assault weapons is their multiple casualty lethality. And the fact that they don’t have a real legitimate civilian purpose, which you can argue for a handgun. But limiting who can have guns and where is critical when you consider that most firearm deaths happen from a gun owned by the victim or someone close to them.

Fwiw, the NRA/GOP like to tout Chicago as a lesson that tough laws don’t work, but the reality is that a significant portion of guns used in Chicago homicides come from Indiana, where they have some of the most lax gun laws in the nation, which argues that it isn’t Chicago’s failed laws so much as the lack of them in surrounding communities that’s the larger issue. Chicago is evidence of the need for federal standards.


Right, same issue with this incident -- Boulder may have had rules (and Denver shares similar rules), but surrounding counties do not.

Besides addressing the tools in a matter that makes sense while respecting the constitution, we as a nation also need to address the source: mental health and poverty/lack of economic mobility. I've seen it said elsewhere, but in opposing universal healthcare/mental healthcare and also obviously being on the opposite side of initiatives to help with poverty and economic mobility, the GOP is going to lose all of the battles in this war.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
...we as a nation also need to address the source: mental health and poverty/lack of economic mobility. I've seen it said elsewhere, but in opposing universal healthcare/mental healthcare and also obviously being on the opposite side of initiatives to help with poverty and economic mobility, the GOP is going to lose all of the battles in this war.


Not as long as they are successful in narrowing the vote with their current attempts at disenfranchising many non-white voters.

I hope the GOP fails, though.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
I'm for instant repeal and recall of all AR style weapons from the public, but at the same time, we already let Pandora out of that box and we're flooded with those guns to the extent that even making those guns illegal and recalling them like the govt recalled gold during the Depression, it'll take decades to even put a dent into the population. Sad to say. I'm close to the Sbdno shooters who got at least one of their rifles from their idiot neighbor. I'm 100% for making them all illegal to own just the same, but how many of them are in this nation today?


Unfortunately there's no possible way to rid ourselves of all the "assault style" weapons out there. We just don't have a population or a government with the wisdom and maturity to do that. All we can do is ban future sales, put restrictions on those weapons out there such as where they can and can't be used (no public use, only private land and ranges), how and where they can be transported, limit private sales (one idea I like is that current owners can only sell their guns back to state and federal authorities) and find ways to encourage people to turn them in through buy back programs. Sadly, the odds of those things happening is nil for the reasons mentioned above.


Making possession a felony with serious mandatory prison time and you’ll reduce numbers quickly and steadily. Gun control laws work if you enforce them. We don’t make murder legal just because people still commit them, time to stop taking that tactic with guns that have no legitimate purpose.


Sure, and I'd be all for it. But you can't enforce laws you haven't put on the books. And you can I both know that a law such as that is never going to happen in this country. This isn't Australia where you can simply ban guns already in people's possession without insurmountable political and public backlash We simply don't have the legislative and judicial bodies with the integrity and will to push through such laws. It's a sad cliche, but if we didn't see such action after Sandy Hook, we never will.

In a country that allows open carry laws, banning weapons is an upstream swim. Freedom comes with a price. Trump said one thing that makes sense, it's time to drain the swamp. We're our own worst enemies. We want our cake even though it's laced with cyanide.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:35 pm    Post subject:

This POS shooter's brother saying this can be attributed to "mental illness". Yet he was able to buy a weapon 6 days prior to the shooting... and his family SAW him with a gun and didn't connect the dots. SMH
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The issue of assault weapons is their multiple casualty lethality. And the fact that they don’t have a real legitimate civilian purpose, which you can argue for a handgun.

So you haven't heard of an assault weapon towel rack? Or an assault weapon hat stand? You can use AR like a hammer! So many completely legitimate purposes. Back scratcher. Pull up bar. Snuggle buddy.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:23 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The issue of assault weapons is their multiple casualty lethality. And the fact that they don’t have a real legitimate civilian purpose, which you can argue for a handgun.

So you haven't heard of an assault weapon towel rack? Or an assault weapon hat stand? You can use AR like a hammer! So many completely legitimate purposes. Back scratcher. Pull up bar. Snuggle buddy.

C'mon kik! There's no comparison and I think you know it. You looking for a cat fight?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject:

Benjamin Wittes
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Mar 29, 2021
Radical gun safety idea: What if legislatures required all gun owners to have active liability insurance for their firearms and made it a crime to own an uninsured gun? This would create a market for assessment of gun risk and require gun owners to pay for their own risk profile.

Benjamin Wittes
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I don't think this would plausibly violate the Second Amendment, as it doesn't restrict gun ownership. And it would force gun owners to bear some of the cost of the risk their choices pose.
7:10 AM · Mar 29, 2021
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:02 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The issue of assault weapons is their multiple casualty lethality. And the fact that they don’t have a real legitimate civilian purpose, which you can argue for a handgun.

So you haven't heard of an assault weapon towel rack? Or an assault weapon hat stand? You can use AR like a hammer! So many completely legitimate purposes. Back scratcher. Pull up bar. Snuggle buddy.

C'mon kik! There's no comparison and I think you know it. You looking for a cat fight?

Sure some attach a bayonet to it. But you could swap a toothpick in for it. You got yourself a deadly flossing tool.
You can make music with the gun shots. They fire quickly since they are automatic or semi automatic, Could make for a good dance song. Same goes for grenade and rocket launchers. And tanks. When you think about it they are just guns that fire bigger bullets. Anybody should be able to buy grenade launchers, rocket launchers, tanks, and their ammo at a gun show. No questions asked.
Come on Jo and Omar. Stop trying to take away my 2nd amendment rights.
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Last edited by kikanga on Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
jodeke wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The issue of assault weapons is their multiple casualty lethality. And the fact that they don’t have a real legitimate civilian purpose, which you can argue for a handgun.

So you haven't heard of an assault weapon towel rack? Or an assault weapon hat stand? You can use AR like a hammer! So many completely legitimate purposes. Back scratcher. Pull up bar. Snuggle buddy.

C'mon kik! There's no comparison and I think you know it. You looking for a cat fight?

Sure some attach a bayonet to it. But you could swap a toothpick in for it. You got yourself a deadly flossing tool.
You can make music with the gun shots. They fire quickly since they are automatic or semi automatic, Could make for a good dance song. Same goes for grenade and rocket launchers. And tanks. When you think about it they are just guns that fire bigger bullets. Anybody should be able to buy grenade launchers, rocket launchers, tanks, and their ammo at a gun show. No questions asked.
Come on Jo and Omar. Stop trying to take away my 2nd amendment rights away.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:42 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Benjamin Wittes
@benjaminwittes
·
Mar 29, 2021
Radical gun safety idea: What if legislatures required all gun owners to have active liability insurance for their firearms and made it a crime to own an uninsured gun? This would create a market for assessment of gun risk and require gun owners to pay for their own risk profile.

Benjamin Wittes
@benjaminwittes
I don't think this would plausibly violate the Second Amendment, as it doesn't restrict gun ownership. And it would force gun owners to bear some of the cost of the risk their choices pose.
7:10 AM · Mar 29, 2021


It could be argued the same as a poll tax and would mostly affect demographics with low incomes.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject:

Colorado has:
- universal background checks (the same as currently being debated in congress)
- no gun show loopholes (background checks required for private purchase)
- magazine size limits
- red flag law

Basically everything being asked for at a federal level is already in place here. Why did these systems fail and how can we hold authorities accountable for allowing a mentally unstable man with a prior assault charge to pass a NICS background check to buy a gun, and what can we do to make sure law enforcement takes red flag calls seriously, given that the SC has already ruled that police are under no obligation to help the public (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales)?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:10 am    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
Colorado has:
- universal background checks (the same as currently being debated in congress)
- no gun show loopholes (background checks required for private purchase)
- magazine size limits
- red flag law

Basically everything being asked for at a federal level is already in place here. Why did these systems fail and how can we hold authorities accountable for allowing a mentally unstable man with a prior assault charge to pass a NICS background check to buy a gun, and what can we do to make sure law enforcement takes red flag calls seriously, given that the SC has already ruled that police are under no obligation to help the public (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Castle_Rock_v._Gonzales)?


Not to mention:
Quote:
A judge recently blocked Boulder from enforcing its assault-weapon ban.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/us/boulder-colorado-gun-laws.html
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