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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Beir32 wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Beir32 wrote: | How does a team win .5 of a championship? 🤔 |
According to some people around here, a half a championship is one you win in a strike-shortened year or in a Bubble. |
It’s nothing new that Laker haters will try everything they can to discredit the teams accomplishments. It’s been going on for years. I get it though. When you’re massively successful it comes with the territory. However…
I’ve seen a lot more people who call themselves Lakers fans and post on Lakers websites doing the same things lately that the haters have been doing for years. It’s a new and frankly perplexing development. |
I was teasing.
Many people will try to discredit accomplishments that they wish hadn't happen. People do it against the Lakers, and Lakers fans do it against other teams.
Non-Lakers fans will discredit the Bubble ring.
Lakers fans will discredit the Spurs strike-shortened ring.
And on and on. |
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Beir32 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016 Posts: 1710 Location: Western PA
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Beir32 wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Beir32 wrote: | How does a team win .5 of a championship? 🤔 |
According to some people around here, a half a championship is one you win in a strike-shortened year or in a Bubble. |
It’s nothing new that Laker haters will try everything they can to discredit the teams accomplishments. It’s been going on for years. I get it though. When you’re massively successful it comes with the territory. However…
I’ve seen a lot more people who call themselves Lakers fans and post on Lakers websites doing the same things lately that the haters have been doing for years. It’s a new and frankly perplexing development. |
I was teasing.
Many people will try to discredit accomplishments that they wish hadn't happen. People do it against the Lakers, and Lakers fans do it against other teams.
Non-Lakers fans will discredit the Bubble ring.
Lakers fans will discredit the Spurs strike-shortened ring.
And on and on. |
Gotta admit though there’s a not-so-small part of the fan base that won’t give Lebron credit for anything he does while he’s here. That includes the “bubble chip”. |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8351 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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deal wrote: | nevitt_smrek wrote: | Good luck trading for Luka. |
Luka will be a Mav for life, Cuban wanted him all along and
there is no way he parts ways with him... next ! |
If Cuban doesn't get Luka a fellow star or superstar for next season, the Mavs won't improve, and it may then be best for Luka to leave the Mavs next summer.
He's only 22, and he has a chance to end up on the same level as MJ/Kobe/Magic/Bird/LeBron if he wins several championships. It's not like Cuban can force Luka to re-sign with the Mavs. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Beir32 wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Beir32 wrote: | activeverb wrote: | Beir32 wrote: | How does a team win .5 of a championship? 🤔 |
According to some people around here, a half a championship is one you win in a strike-shortened year or in a Bubble. |
It’s nothing new that Laker haters will try everything they can to discredit the teams accomplishments. It’s been going on for years. I get it though. When you’re massively successful it comes with the territory. However…
I’ve seen a lot more people who call themselves Lakers fans and post on Lakers websites doing the same things lately that the haters have been doing for years. It’s a new and frankly perplexing development. |
I was teasing.
Many people will try to discredit accomplishments that they wish hadn't happen. People do it against the Lakers, and Lakers fans do it against other teams.
Non-Lakers fans will discredit the Bubble ring.
Lakers fans will discredit the Spurs strike-shortened ring.
And on and on. |
Gotta admit though there’s a not-so-small part of the fan base that won’t give Lebron credit for anything he does while he’s here. That includes the “bubble chip”. |
Oh, yeah. Lebron pushes buttons. There's always been folks here who decided he's failed before the game even begins. A lot of those folks have fled LG since he won a ring as a Laker; I think that event traumatized them. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | deal wrote: | nevitt_smrek wrote: | Good luck trading for Luka. |
Luka will be a Mav for life, Cuban wanted him all along and
there is no way he parts ways with him... next ! |
If Cuban doesn't get Luka a fellow star or superstar for next season, the Mavs won't improve, and it may then be best for Luka to leave the Mavs next summer.
He's only 22, and he has a chance to end up on the same level as MJ/Kobe/Magic/Bird/LeBron if he wins several championships. It's not like Cuban can force Luka to re-sign with the Mavs. |
I suspect, like most superstars, Luka will reup with the team that drafted him for a max contract. Players usually don't obsess about their legacy in their early 20s.
And honestly, does that really matter? If Dirk had won three rings instead of one, there would probably be people on LG arguing that he should be on the top 10 of all time list, but I doubt Dirk himself would know or care that was going on.
My guess is a lot of the stuff fans obsess about don't matter to players much. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 4446
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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A real championship is better than several theoretical ones so I have to be satisfied that the Lakers got #17 with the AD trade.
However, I would be in denial if I didn’t at least entertain “what if” scenarios considering what the former Laker young pups are doing around the league.
Bryant Zubac
Randle Nance
Ingram
Russell Hart
Ball Clarkson
That is helluva group of draftees. Had we been able to pull off the original plan of adding two Max players to that group the Lakers would have appeared on paper to be better positioned than where they are now...theoretically...
But I’ll take a real championship |
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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17109
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | A real championship is better than several theoretical ones so I have to be satisfied that the Lakers got #17 with the AD trade.
However, I would be in denial if I didn’t at least entertain “what if” scenarios considering what the former Laker young pups are doing around the league.
Bryant Zubac
Randle Nance
Ingram
Russell Hart
Ball Clarkson
That is helluva group of draftees. Had we been able to pull off the original plan of adding two Max players to that group the Lakers would have appeared on paper to be better positioned than where they are now...theoretically...
But I’ll take a real championship |
If we added two Max players at (minimum) $65,000,000.00, who on that list was going to take a pay cut to stay on the Lakers? Those guys you listed earned $128,000,000.00 last year, with some (Lonzo, Hart, Randle) looking for big raises/extensions. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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RG73 Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2001 Posts: 11508
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | A real championship is better than several theoretical ones so I have to be satisfied that the Lakers got #17 with the AD trade.
However, I would be in denial if I didn’t at least entertain “what if” scenarios considering what the former Laker young pups are doing around the league.
Bryant Zubac
Randle Nance
Ingram
Russell Hart
Ball Clarkson
That is helluva group of draftees. Had we been able to pull off the original plan of adding two Max players to that group the Lakers would have appeared on paper to be better positioned than where they are now...theoretically...
But I’ll take a real championship |
The theoretical also includes all those guys taking cap friendly deals so that the team could have added two max players and then complementing said max players and then being happy with their diminished roles next to said players. All of that happening is basically impossible--it makes for some nice thought experiments or discussions over some beers, but the ideal situation was never going to materialize.
Like you said, the real championship is worth more than theory. We can second guess all the decisions that led here all we want but at the end of the day they won and we still have Lebron and AD.
I'm sure somewhere on this forum during the Walton era someone probably posted some scenario whereby the Lakers wound up with Lebron and AD and winning a championship and this was brushed off as pipe. Well, they made the pipe dream happen in reality. We all would love for this team to run off 2 or 3 championships in what remains of Lebron's window, but we may have to settle for 1, and that is 1 more than nearly every other team in the NBA. And nearly every one of those other GMs would have made the same deals if you told them they'd get a championship out of it. At the very least Rob has bought himself some job security over a GM who is always collecting young assets, never flipping them and wallowing in the lottery. |
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Hanging from Rafters Star Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 Posts: 4446
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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It was known that there was a small window to add the two Max players before the draftees exited their rookie deals. While those deals were in place the team had the cap space to add two max of layers without pay cuts. The following years would have been a challenge tho as the rookie deals began to expire, first Randle then DLO and Ingram, Clarkson had already signed a team friendly extension and Randle was restricted
The team had the cap space or was very close.
Not the point tho... Even tho we had the room for two max, perhaps we still would not or maybe so ...won a championship. Compare that to actually winning a real not theoretical championship, I prefer the real one. |
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Lakerz113 Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2015 Posts: 2445
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | It was known that there was a small window to add the two Max players before the draftees exited their rookie deals. While those deals were in place the team had the cap space to add two max of layers without pay cuts. The following years would have been a challenge tho as the rookie deals began to expire, first Randle then DLO and Ingram, Clarkson had already signed a team friendly extension and Randle was restricted
The team had the cap space or was very close.
Not the point tho... Even tho we had the room for two max, perhaps we still would not or maybe so ...won a championship. Compare that to actually winning a real not theoretical championship, I prefer the real one. |
Give me that ring all day. Laker fans are spoiled. I’ve experienced more joy as a true laker fan than some other fans will ever enjoy. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14912 Location: Earth
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Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | slavavov wrote: | deal wrote: | nevitt_smrek wrote: | Good luck trading for Luka. |
Luka will be a Mav for life, Cuban wanted him all along and
there is no way he parts ways with him... next ! |
If Cuban doesn't get Luka a fellow star or superstar for next season, the Mavs won't improve, and it may then be best for Luka to leave the Mavs next summer.
He's only 22, and he has a chance to end up on the same level as MJ/Kobe/Magic/Bird/LeBron if he wins several championships. It's not like Cuban can force Luka to re-sign with the Mavs. |
I suspect, like most superstars, Luka will reup with the team that drafted him for a max contract. Players usually don't obsess about their legacy in their early 20s.
And honestly, does that really matter? If Dirk had won three rings instead of one, there would probably be people on LG arguing that he should be on the top 10 of all time list, but I doubt Dirk himself would know or care that was going on.
My guess is a lot of the stuff fans obsess about don't matter to players much. |
Yep. Luka is Cuban’s new Dirk; lots of pie in the sky here but,
that’s what it is.. _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11841
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Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:55 am Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | deal wrote: | nevitt_smrek wrote: | Good luck trading for Luka. |
Luka will be a Mav for life, Cuban wanted him all along and
there is no way he parts ways with him... next ! |
If Cuban doesn't get Luka a fellow star or superstar for next season, the Mavs won't improve, and it may then be best for Luka to leave the Mavs next summer.
He's only 22, and he has a chance to end up on the same level as MJ/Kobe/Magic/Bird/LeBron if he wins several championships. It's not like Cuban can force Luka to re-sign with the Mavs. |
Mavs are a great franchise. If he's the next Lebron, there's going to be a really long lists of FAs wanting to play with him. I don't think the Mavs would have trouble finding multiple superstars to pair up with him. Only way he's leaving Dallas for LA is if he wanted the Hollywood spotlight like Shaq or Lebron but it doesn't look like he's gonna be those types of players. _________________ Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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BlackStarMamba Star Player
Joined: 29 May 2018 Posts: 1377
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:26 am Post subject: |
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cough cough..its dusty trying to find these old gem threads
Petition to make this thread sticky for the next 2-3 years. _________________ I got Nothing interesting to put here |
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SGV-Laker fan Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013 Posts: 8880
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:32 am Post subject: |
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If AD turns out to be like Giannis or Jokic it would be all worth it. But reality is we traded away those assets for someone who has no desire to improve his game and his body, just a stats guy, and is fragile as a house built by match sticks. AD is almost 30 by the way, yikes. |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16748
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:36 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Yes I’m comfortable. And the ring was worth it for me. It’s incredible how people think winning a ring is, and overvaluing our good but not championship level great our YUTES were. And no, no one has a “decade long” championship window. Lakers play for rings, remember? |
this is my view as well.
Now is the time to see what we can turn AD into. _________________ Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144473 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Trading for AD wasn’t the problem, giving up all they did was. We are seeing what boost we get from young athletic players like Gabriel and Johnson. And they were out of the league when we got them, imagine if we had hung onto a couple of guys that we actually drafted. This team needs some youth to save older legs, not over the hill vets. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I know it's a radical concept, but both can be true at the same time:
1) Trading for AD was worth it because the outcome was a ring.
2) Lakers are downright terrible at managing assets and developing draft picks. The way they threw away and wasted assets is like a 10 year old playing 2k. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I think their rationale was three fold:
1. AD/LBJ could win a championship. Done.
2. AD/LBJ should be good enough with changing all the surrounding pieces to be a championship level team. Nope. Too many injuries.
3. The contracts would line up so that in 2023 or 2024, the team would have 2 max slots to rebuild around AD. Likely. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26386
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Without the injuries in the 2nd season together the Lakers would have repeated as Champions and this season would be seen as the only bad one out of the 3 that this has gone on.
Just the same as if the Warriors hadn't been injured and Draymond hadn't been suspended and Bogut never got hurt, LeBron wouldn't have 4 titles. Just the same as if KD and Klay never got hurt Kawhi wouldn't have ever won a 2nd Championship. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23265
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:30 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | I think their rationale was three fold:
1. AD/LBJ could win a championship. Done.
2. AD/LBJ should be good enough with changing all the surrounding pieces to be a championship level team. Nope. Too many injuries.
3. The contracts would line up so that in 2023 or 2024, the team would have 2 max slots to rebuild around AD. Likely. |
lebron and AD played 53 out of the last 160 games together, and if anyone could've predicted this... |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 23265
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Hanging from Rafters wrote: | A real championship is better than several theoretical ones so I have to be satisfied that the Lakers got #17 with the AD trade.
However, I would be in denial if I didn’t at least entertain “what if” scenarios considering what the former Laker young pups are doing around the league.
Bryant Zubac
Randle Nance
Ingram
Russell Hart
Ball Clarkson
That is helluva group of draftees. Had we been able to pull off the original plan of adding two Max players to that group the Lakers would have appeared on paper to be better positioned than where they are now...theoretically...
But I’ll take a real championship |
the group you mentioned is not good enough to win a playoff series against top teams even at their peaks. |
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kwase Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 3069
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:37 am Post subject: |
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mad55557777 wrote: | Hanging from Rafters wrote: | A real championship is better than several theoretical ones so I have to be satisfied that the Lakers got #17 with the AD trade.
However, I would be in denial if I didn’t at least entertain “what if” scenarios considering what the former Laker young pups are doing around the league.
Bryant Zubac
Randle Nance
Ingram
Russell Hart
Ball Clarkson
That is helluva group of draftees. Had we been able to pull off the original plan of adding two Max players to that group the Lakers would have appeared on paper to be better positioned than where they are now...theoretically...
But I’ll take a real championship |
the group you mentioned is not good enough to win a playoff series against top teams even at their peaks. |
Where can I purchase the crystal ball you own? |
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av3773 Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3752
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:50 am Post subject: |
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It will be interesting to see what the Lakers do this Summer...we knew AD was always a play away from injury...we got our ring out of it never the less...but now I'm wondering what might you get for AD in the Summer with 2 years left on his deal...another Team may make the same calculus that if they can keep him healthy they have a shot....for us if we keep AD, really I don't see how you can't have a mind set that you can't really expect to rely on him, you have to hope, so when building a roster i think you have to build a roster that can be decent with AD not playing loooooooong stretches, which means improving D, while hopefully keeping some of the O we found this year |
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danzag Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Posts: 22378 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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No player we traded for AD is close to his level.
The best one, Ingram, is even more of an injury prone player.
But yes, we're terrible on managing our assets. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Pretty crazy that with all of AD's injuries, last 3 seasons, games played:
BI: 174
Zo: 153
AD: 135 |
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