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Guess who got outscored by 10 players last night
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TACH
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Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:27 am Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:

hoopschick29 wrote:

TG711 wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:

Somebody said that the team didn't need him to score last night...that there was balanced scoring...well on the nights that we do need Lamar to score, does he? No he doesn't.

I agree with this statement.

I've said this before. It's easy to play well when everyone else is playing well. But as leader, I'm interested in what he does when things aren't going well. That's is where real trust is built from within a team.

Take tonight's game. The team is gonna struggle tonight. They always do on back-to-backs. Kobe is gonna have to up his scoring and he will step it up like he always does. But what does Lamar do when the team is struggling? If this season is any indication, he always shrinks. If the team plays well, he plays great. If the team plays bad, he plays worse.

He isn't the leader, kobe is.

I agree he needs to step up, he's just never going to be the second option on this team. Folks need to realize that, and stop bashing him for not being that and appreciate what he does bring to the table...IMO. The key for Lamar isn't scoring, it's staying aggressive. He may never be consistently aggressive, but that is more important than how much he scores...again IMO.

I agree with you.... LO is what he is.... just examine his tenure in the L. This is how he's always been... The things people question him on or about,... those same questions have been asked since he was at URI. And 'his' answer has always been the same. In that sense, he's one of the most consistant players out there...

Last edited by TACH on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total

Socks
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Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:31 am Post subject:

Wow, what a surprise, a Lamar bashing thread from 40ptmachine. Shocker.

THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:42 am Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:

TG711 wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:

Somebody said that the team didn't need him to score last night...that there was balanced scoring...well on the nights that we do need Lamar to score, does he? No he doesn't.

I agree with this statement.

But then, that would only make sense... In LO's role as "head facillitator" 10 potential assist could easily end up being 1, or 2 which is his first priority. It would largely depend on how efficient the offense was clicking wouldn't it?

What most don't see or want to see is if Odom were to abandon his position and, start only concentrating on his own shot you can bet your last money he could find it. This season when he has been offensively agressive against Miami, San Antonio, Sacramento just to name a few they couldn't stop him.

This is why I can't understand the hatred. LO is doing what he was told to do. Which is to become "the initiator"His rebounding is stellar because he does that as a solo act. Lamar Odom is talented. He could be whining as Starburry was in New York and, ask out of the job but, he hangs in. Only a few admirers but, he plods on...

Actually what would be nice is if Phil just gave LO the green light, and made Bryant run things in the first half since kobe knows that position like the back of his hand and, can still find scoring openings without thinking. Ofcourse counter to Jacksons vision that would leave Kobe less energetic in the 4th.

This has been the plan from the very beggining but, nobody said it was going to be an instant success... Sure LO has his nights when his application is less than 100% but, everybody needs to know there are few guys in the league that measure up to Kobe Bryants energy. That is one of the reasons why he is known as the best in the game...

Your right. As this team improves so will LO. In this offensive system it is of absolute importance that everybody is on the same page...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."

Last edited by THE_SHOES on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total

karlmalonefan
Star Player

Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:44 am Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:

karlmalonefan wrote:

hoopschick29 wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

hoopschick29 wrote:

TG711 wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:

Somebody said that the team didn't need him to score last night...that there was balanced scoring...well on the nights that we do need Lamar to score, does he? No he doesn't.

I agree with this statement.

Interesting.

I must have been dreaming that 4th qtr he played against Boston when the team was struggling. He had some big plays in that 4th qtr.

Not to mention, when Kobe was out against Utah those two games and the long stretch he was out last season - what were Odom's number?

Something like 18/12/5

To step up as a leader, you also need to have the ball and feel it's your team. That is a process thing and Phil has said it would take a few years before Odom really evolved into a guy that the team could call it's leader.

You're kidding, right?? You're actually bringing up the Utah games to prove your point?? See, this is why the box score NEVER tells the whole story. I remember those 2 games, particularly the one in Utah. You can bring up his line, I'll talk about the game. Remember Kirelinko? Remember how he absolutely abused and pistol-whipped Lamar Odom and the rest of the Laker frontline every time they tried to shoot anything resembling a shot in the 3rd and 4th quarter? See, that's what your box scores don't tell you. That's what I'm talking about about when it comes to responding when things aren't going well.

Yeah, cuz the Lakers are the same team with Kobe and without him, right? :roll: We've had a hard time beating Utah WITH kobe this year, let alone without him. What he was saying is that with kobe out, Lamar stepped up and had two good games. BTW, what is our record without lamar this year and last year? Thought so...that means Kobe sucks as a leader, though, right? Because he couldn't get the wins without such a marginal player as Lamar? That's the logic you're using. :roll: And Kobe's teams never get Pistol whipped by any sucky teams, right? Guess you forgot about Portland earlier this year, just to name one.

I love the double standard around here.

I wasn't the one who brought up the Utah games for the purpose of proving some inconsequential point. Quite frankly, I think those 2 games didn't mean much and didn't say anything about Lamar Odom as a player one way or another. But to say that he's a great player because he had a box score against a bad team is ridiculous that was my point.

And as for bringing up Kobe, apples and oranges. Kobe is PROVEN. From the smallest of situations to the biggest stage he's done it all on the court. We know that with Kobe, he's gonna show up. Win, lose or draw, he's there. Even his bad games are better than most. It's all about what the other guys are able to contribute. Can we say the same about Lamar?? I love how you Odom Lovers want to denegrate Kobe to prove something. Odom isn't proven at anything other than being an inconsistent player for his 7 year career. Not asking for the world, just for him to be aggressive all the time. There is nothing stopping Odom but Odom.

I don't want to denigrate anyone on this team, I'm simply pointing out that you blame LO for the front line getting pistol whipped by AK47, but you don't issue that same blame to kobe when his team gets pistol whipped by Portland and Atlanta? Don't you see the double standard there?

I agree with your last two sentences, as well as with a previous post in this same thread regarding this same subject. Lamar lacks aggression and is sometimes mentally weak when things aren't going his way. I'm not Lamar Lover, as you say, I can just see the positive things he brings not just the negative. And Lamar is only inconsistent in regards to scoring. He consistently fills up the stats sheet in every other area. And greater basketball minds than yours or mine, whose opinion actually counts for something, feel the same way.

40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:45 am Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

I must have been dreaming that 4th qtr he played against Boston when the team was struggling. He had some big plays in that 4th qtr..

yeah we lost by one and he missed how many FTs in the 4th quarter ??
_________________
After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$

plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits

karlmalonefan
Star Player

Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:50 am Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:

hoopschick29 wrote:

TG711 wrote:

LakerLegend wrote:

Somebody said that the team didn't need him to score last night...that there was balanced scoring...well on the nights that we do need Lamar to score, does he? No he doesn't.

I agree with this statement.

But then, that would only make sense... In LO's role as "head facillitator" 10 potential assist could easily end up being 1, or 2 which is his first priority. It would largely depend on how efficient the offense was clicking wouldn't it?

What most don't see or want to see is if Odom were to abandon his position and, start only concentrating on his own shot you can bet your last money he could find it. This season when he has been offensively agressive against Miami, San Antonio, Sacramento just to name a few they couldn't stop him.

This is why I can't understand the hatred. LO is doing what he was told to do. Which is to become "the initiator"His rebounding is stellar because he does that as a solo act. Lamar Odom is talented. He could be whining as Starburry was in New York and, ask out of the job but, he hangs in. Only a few admirers but, he plods on...

Actually what would be nice is if Phil just gave LO the green light, and made Bryant run things in the first half since kobe knows that position like the back of his hand and, can still find scoring openings without thinking. Ofcourse counter to Jacksons vision that would leave Kobe less energetic in the 4th.
This has been the plan from the very beggining but, nobody said it was going to be an instant success... Sure he has his nights when his application is less than 100% but, everybody needs to know there are few guys in the league that measure of to Kobe Bryants energy. That is one of the reasons why he is known as the best in the game...

Nice post. I agree 100%. Last night on Lakers Live they asked Phil about Lamar and if he knows the offense and how he's doing. Phil said that Lamar knows the offense, he's just having trouble balancing when to score and when to set people up. He seems to do one or the other.

If you think about it, Kobe had the same problem, but where LO errs on the side of passing too much, Kobe erred on the side of shooting too much (which is what pissed Phil and Shaq off, remember?) It's a role LO has to learn and get comfortable with, and it isn't going to happen overnight. Kobe has been doing it for what, 6-7 years? He's said himself he struggled with it, had sleepless nights because of criticism from fans, the coach, and teammates. He sees that LO is in the same position, has empathy for him, and has asked that we have patience while LO goes through that same learning curve.

THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:51 am Post subject:

40ptmachine wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

I must have been dreaming that 4th qtr he played against Boston when the team was struggling. He had some big plays in that 4th qtr..

yeah we lost by one and he missed how many FTs in the 4th quarter ??

You need to give this up. The only way this can even be valid is if LO was the only one who missed a free throw in this game. Your reaching to justify your weak argument but, the Lakers lost by 1 which means Lamar shares that guilt with 3 other players of which you can take your pick in this case. In fact LO can be excused for making up his mistake by being the guy who made everything even if your going to go this ridiculous hater route...

You don't mind looking silly though, so go ahead. You definitely needed to be told though. This angle is bogus...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."

Last edited by THE_SHOES on Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total

wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:29 am Post subject:

My boy is unstoppable in this thread. Hoopschick, nice of you to ignore the part where I brought up two games from last season where LO stepped up as the undisputed leader. The game where Kobe got injured and then the following one on the road against GS. Fine the Utah games don't matter statistically since we lost them. Now explain me how a guy that can't lead, takes a team without it's star and wins those two games like that. If you don't remember those games, I will refresh your memory. Kobe goes down against Cleveland and the Lakers hang on to win without him. Lamar Odom led the charge. Next game against GS, Lamar Odom hits the game winner and has another very good outing. Throughout the entire tenure of Bryant's absence Odom stepped up and averaged 18/12/5 roughly. Ignore that all you want, but he stepped up as a leader. Just like in Miami. He can lead. He has shown it many games. He just doesn't do it enough with Kobe out there too.

DaggerInTheHeart
Star Player

Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1459
Location: Sunshine State

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:37 am Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

My boy is unstoppable in this thread.

Hoopschick, nice of you to ignore the part where I brought up two games from last season where LO stepped up as the undisputed leader. The game where Kobe got injured and then the following one on the road against GS.

Wow Lamar Odom is such a great leader he was so great he couldn't lead the Lakers to a point were the Lakers were sucessful without Kobe.

let's all skip the facts and let's all give Odom his worshipness he deserves Odom jockers sometimes amaze me.

btw, the only thing Shoes has been unstoppable with on this thread is consistently bragging on Odom's excellent and lack of knowledge on his own part plenty of people owned him in this thread.

wolfpaclaker
Retired Number

Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

DaggerInTheHeart wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Here's a fact.

Lamar without Kobe last season + this season vs Kobe without Lamar last and this season.

Check out who suffers more.

Hint. It's not Odom. Neither statistically or from a team record perspective.

And this isn't about jocking Odom, it's about defending a guy that for the most part played well for the Lakers and doing what the coach asks of him. But because of unrealistic expectations and immaturity over past drug issues - there is constant LO bashing.

How would people like it if a guy came on this board and constantly called Kobe a ballhog and rapist? Would that be fair? No. Infact B-Scott called Kobe a ballhog and he was banned pretty fast.

But because it's Lamar Odom and the in thing here, it's being tolerated non-stop. The constant drug smack talk and what not is beyond childish. It's flat out stupid.

Dunno why it's tolerated though. I thought this was a Laker board. If I wanted to see Laker players being bashed non-stop, I would visit non-Laker boards during playoff series or when we play their teams.

40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:48 am Post subject:

LOL Lamar sometimes can't even get double digits and this lamas lovers always find the way to overrate him. _________________ After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$ plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits

Bergamotichek
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 16777206

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:

I see THE_SHOES and DaggerInTheHeart want to be the 1st to spend some time on the bench. Last edited by Bergamotichek on Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total

Bergamotichek
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:51 am Post subject:

Oh yeah... and 40ptmachine... shut up already. We know you don't like Odom. Its also become apparent, you're just trying to start fights.

40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:

[DELETED] Final warning. _________________ After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$ plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits

Exick
Site Staff

Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 15880

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:54 am Post subject:

40ptmachine wrote:

LOL Lamar sometimes can't even get double digits and this lamas lovers always find the way to overrate him.

And even when the team wins and Lamar outrebounds everyone on the floor, you start a thread to talk about your obsession.
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Game recognize game, Granddad. - Riley Freeman, The Boondocks

venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

40ptmachine wrote:

[DELETED]

So it bothers you that Shoes isn't a front runner like you? Different strokes for different folks. It doesn't make him wrong.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.

THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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Location: Taiwan

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

JD wrote:

I see THE_SHOES and DaggerInTheHeart want to be the 1st to spend some time on the bench.

JD I left that individual alone over 20 minutes ago and, I promise you I'm through with him...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.."

40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject:

JD wrote:

Oh yeah... and 40ptmachine... shut up already. We know you don't like Odom. Its also become apparent, you're just trying to start fights.

OK, you all know what I think about Overpaidom. I'm done with this situation, but I AM NOT trying to start fights JD, I am just saying what I think about this underachiever.

Sorry if i disturbed the peace of this forum.

Peace
_________________
After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$

plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits

karlmalonefan
Star Player

Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

DaggerInTheHeart wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Cosign! Good post, wolf!

Laker Lurker
Star Player

Joined: 24 Oct 2002
Posts: 7652

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:

[quote="wolfpaclaker"][quote="DaggerInTheHeart"]

wolfpaclaker wrote:

How would people like it if a guy came on this board and constantly called Kobe a ballhog and rapist? Would that be fair? No. Infact B-Scott called Kobe a ballhog and he was banned pretty fast.

But because it's Lamar Odom and the in thing here, it's being tolerated non-stop. The constant drug smack talk and what not is beyond childish. It's flat out stupid.

Dunno why it's tolerated though. I thought this was a Laker board. If I wanted to see Laker players being bashed non-stop, I would visit non-Laker boards during playoff series or when we play their teams.

This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player. Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts.

Socks
Franchise Player

Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:

Laker Lurker wrote:

This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player.

Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts.

One thing that constantly confuses me is where people seem to be getting the impression that it's LO's JOB to be the second scoring option on this team. Remember when LO came out and said he was shooting to score 20 PPG earlier this season and PJ basically said no, that's not what he wanted from LO. So if the coach is saying that's not what he wants from his player, and the coach is the boss, why do people still believe this is what LO should be doing?

We all know Odom has some deficiencies, and yeah, he probably could be scoring a little more. That said, it's not that LO is not doing his job, it's your expectation of what his job actually is that is messed up.

wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject:

Socks wrote:

Laker Lurker wrote:

This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player.

Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts.

Exactly.

Well said Socks.

People are ignoring that Jackson wants the offense running like last night over a guy dropping 20 points with 2 assists. He wants Odom having 5-6 assist per game and facilitating other players so that they grow in confidence and that everyone's a threat.

Basketball is a 5 man game. Especially the Triangle.

LA Lakers 41790
Sixth Man

Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 68

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject:

.....this are the same arguments over and over again. and i dont think there is such a thing as lamar lovers only haters. the "lovers" are just supporting a player on their favorite team, THE LAKERS. I also agree with what the Lovers say like SHOES But the haters are just disencouraging a player who is already losing confidence from phrases like overpaid, not legit, odumb, stupid, not aggressive. U want the Lakers to win dont u so how much better would a Laker team be with a confident Odom. SUPPORT ODOM

karlmalonefan
Star Player

Joined: 06 Jul 2004
Posts: 2608
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Socks wrote:

Laker Lurker wrote:

This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player.

Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts.

LakersRGolden
Star Player

Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7922
Location: Lake Forest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject:

karlmalonefan wrote:

wolfpaclaker wrote:

Socks wrote:

Laker Lurker wrote:

This would stop if Odom wasn't playing really badly and wasn't the second scoring option on the team. He's not doing his job which is not the job of simply being a role player.

Odom's performance (or lack thereof) cannot be ignored.As for Kobe & B.Scott, his comments were simply stupid because the Lakers would be in the lottery without Kobe ballhoging -so even if Kobe was ballhogging so what- it was simply because everyone else was worthless, including Odom,who is expected to be not worthless. Odom jockers start pro Odom threads that, unfortunately, are rare because Odom rarely does anything positive. It would be nice to see a lot of pro Odom threads because it would mean that Odom is actually paying good enough to get these posts.

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