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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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 Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
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They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5129
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
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They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
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They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
And you will forever be unhappy over winning a title. I don’t get it. But to each their own. |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5129
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
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They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
And you will forever be unhappy over winning a title. I don’t get it. But to each their own. |
I'm old enough to remember the Kareem trade and I was happy about that... I was fine with Gasol trade... I even didn't have a big problem with the Westbrook trade even though I preferred trading for Buddy and keeping KCP and Alex.
If AD played like an MVP I'd already be over this trade, but when I see him playing well... but not trade half of our franchise well... then sure I'm unhappy.
If I had no problem with other historical trades, if I like AD as a person but just wish he was more aggressive... I don't think I'm picking on the Lakers unfairly because I supported most of their trades. I just wish we went a different path in this case.
Time will tell if I had a point.
Maybe we bounce back and sign a great FA to replace LBJ and don't miss a beat. I'll be happy in that case.
But if we go into another dark ages period... then no I won't be. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
\
They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
And you will forever be unhappy over winning a title. I don’t get it. But to each their own. |
I'm old enough to remember the Kareem trade and I was happy about that... I was fine with Gasol trade... I even didn't have a big problem with the Westbrook trade even though I preferred trading for Buddy and keeping KCP and Alex.
If AD played like an MVP I'd already be over this trade, but when I see him playing well... but not trade half of our franchise well... then sure I'm unhappy.
If I had no problem with other historical trades, if I like AD as a person but just wish he was more aggressive... I don't think I'm picking on the Lakers unfairly because I supported most of their trades. I just wish we went a different path in this case.
Time will tell if I had a point.
Maybe we bounce back and sign a great FA to replace LBJ and don't miss a beat. I'll be happy in that case.
But if we go into another dark ages period... then no I won't be. |
Also, if we have kept the young guys maybe we would have been OK or maybe we would have floundered. We'll never know.
I'm just not one to pine for alternative realities, or to assume that alternative realities would have necessarily been better.
I also don't assume that the Lakers will just keep going on and on as contenders, never missing a beat. That just isn't realistic to me.
Anyway, seems like everyone's POV is clear and people are just repeating themselves, so time to move on. |
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youcantguardme
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Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 1117
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Crappy Lakers fans if you ask me. As a fan, what gives you the right to determine who a real Laker should be? Just because they played for someone else??? Really. Some of these dudes SIGNED with the Lakers meaning they WANTED to play in purple and gold. Now I might question a players dedication to winning or their attitude and whether it meets the standard of who I want to root for. But if you suit up and play your ass off wearing a Lakers jersey, I'm on your side. If you want to decide who meets your standard for a Lakers player, go get a better job and buy the team. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43997
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| youcantguardme wrote: | | Crappy Lakers fans if you ask me. As a fan, what gives you the right to determine who a real Laker should be? Just because they played for someone else??? Really. Some of these dudes SIGNED with the Lakers meaning they WANTED to play in purple and gold. Now I might question a players dedication to winning or their attitude and whether it meets the standard of who I want to root for. But if you suit up and play your ass off wearing a Lakers jersey, I'm on your side. If you want to decide who meets your standard for a Lakers player, go get a better job and buy the team. |
You claim Nick Young?
You claim Dennis Schroder?
We can go down the list. They wore purple and gold, but I wouldn't consider them "Lakers." |
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ltsmash
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Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I think what makes certain players feel like "real Lakers" depends on two things: 1) how long they played with the team; and 2) when their respective primes occurred. If the two coincide, we tend to think of them as "real Lakers." If those two factors are linked with playoff success (i.e. chips), then they are definitely "real Lakers." |
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lakez34
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Joined: 24 Apr 2001
Posts: 6119
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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I have trouble relating to the current Laker squad (this year, but in general the past few years) because at least for me, with a few exceptions, they haven't gone through the thick and thin with us, and players were either already a known winner who has been there done that (Bron) or a rental (nearly our entire team last year and this year). AD is the one big outlier. He's in a position/opportunity to really grow into a winner with us (obviously he won a ring for us so he's there, but I want to see that same growth year over year until we can prove out it wasn't an anomaly). Russ and Melo could prove to be the same (though they're so late in their career, coming in, winning a ring, and then fading into retirement doesn't cut it for me). It's also hard because those that were developing with us were all let go over the past few years.
As another poster wrote earlier, this is such a hard thing to measure objectively, and every fan votes with different objectives. I do find it interesting that many of the fans on LG relate to this feeling though. Wonder how true that is across Laker fandom. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43997
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ltsmash wrote: | | I think what makes certain players feel like "real Lakers" depends on two things: 1) how long they played with the team; and 2) when their respective primes occurred. If the two coincide, we tend to think of them as "real Lakers." If those two factors are linked with playoff success (i.e. chips), then they are definitely "real Lakers." |
We claim Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones
We claim Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram
Neither of them won championships. I don't think its formulaic |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
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They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
I think you're missing my point.
BILBJH suggested that the Raptors added a superstar to their young players, enjoying immediate success and positioning them for the future.
My comment was meant to show that (1) the Raptors actually added a ton of older players who quickly left and (2) they really didn't position themselves for the future. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8896
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| "home grown" is another name for being cheap, being complacent, being overly indulging of the past. Buss family would love this path if it's purely up to them, so that they don't have to pay for front office guys, just draft some one and be patient. it's not how it works anymore, superstar players run the league nowadays, Laker fans should just be glad LeBron CHOSE us when we were dead in the water 3 years ago. home grown talent even as good as Kobe won't win you jack, it takes a collection of super stars to win in today's NBA. |
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Steve007
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Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 13234
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
\
They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
Why? Because of the past? The past is over with, it’s done. Just ask the Celtics and Bulls. Having a great history doesn’t guarantee success in the future, especially if things have changed. No team in the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL has lived up to your standards. The closest is actually our team.
Only reason we should have high standards right now is the team has Lebron, Davis and Westbrook, and Lebron and Davis have proven they can win a title together.
Even Kobe was in favor of trading young potential, and in that case it was for an old player. He wanted the team to make the Bynum for Kidd deal. As he was saying, “I’m trying to win this (bleep) now.” |
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DLaker
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 1539
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
\
They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
And you will forever be unhappy over winning a title. I don’t get it. But to each their own. |
I'm old enough to remember the Kareem trade and I was happy about that... I was fine with Gasol trade... I even didn't have a big problem with the Westbrook trade even though I preferred trading for Buddy and keeping KCP and Alex.
If AD played like an MVP I'd already be over this trade, but when I see him playing well... but not trade half of our franchise well... then sure I'm unhappy.
If I had no problem with other historical trades, if I like AD as a person but just wish he was more aggressive... I don't think I'm picking on the Lakers unfairly because I supported most of their trades. I just wish we went a different path in this case.
Time will tell if I had a point.
Maybe we bounce back and sign a great FA to replace LBJ and don't miss a beat. I'll be happy in that case.
But if we go into another dark ages period... then no I won't be. |
We were at the dark ages keeping our young, need to look back and see the Lakers record back then. My tune would change if any of our young we traded get a sniff of a championship then maybe then we can do a what if, else this timeline if what I will ride on. None of the young we lost was generational or dominant as a player to replace the championship we won. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12883
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | BILBJH wrote: |
Just like Siakam and FVV could win when they added Kawhi... |
\
They also added Gasol, Green, and Ibaka, on top of also having a four-time all-star in Kyle Lowry already in place.
Toronto was really a one-and-done mercenary team that cleared out all the mercenaries within two years of winning a ring and became a 27-45 team.
Now, of course, you hear nothing but trade rumors about how they are trying to ship out that Siakam and FVV. |
That was a great team. Do you think the raps are disconsolate about only getting one ring? |
Again, The Raptors standards should be lower than ours.
You are happy with one ring and a difficult future.
I am not. Just a difference in philosophy, nothing more. |
And you will forever be unhappy over winning a title. I don’t get it. But to each their own. |
And the tapestry is so much more vivid than it just being one ring. We won in the year of Kobe’s passing, COVID, quarantine, social unrest and tied the Celtics in the process.
Re: the Raptors, that was a title contender for at least two more years. Kawhi snubbed the basketball gods by leaving a better team to get cozy in SoCal and has paid a price for it.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| youcantguardme wrote: | | Crappy Lakers fans if you ask me. As a fan, what gives you the right to determine who a real Laker should be? Just because they played for someone else??? Really. Some of these dudes SIGNED with the Lakers meaning they WANTED to play in purple and gold. Now I might question a players dedication to winning or their attitude and whether it meets the standard of who I want to root for. But if you suit up and play your ass off wearing a Lakers jersey, I'm on your side. If you want to decide who meets your standard for a Lakers player, go get a better job and buy the team. |
Laker fans are the literal definition of who can determine who is a real Laker. The point is that we don’t have to agree. Lebron will always be a Cav and AD will always be a Hornet/Pelican to me. People don’t have to agree with that.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve007 wrote: |
Why? Because of the past? The past is over with, it’s done. Just ask the Celtics and Bulls. Having a great history doesn’t guarantee success in the future, especially if things have changed. No team in the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL has lived up to your standards. The closest is actually our team.
Only reason we should have high standards right now is the team has Lebron, Davis and Westbrook, and Lebron and Davis have proven they can win a title together.
Even Kobe was in favor of trading young potential, and in that case it was for an old player. He wanted the team to make the Bynum for Kidd deal. As he was saying, “I’m trying to win this (bleep) now.” |
It is funny that we went 10 years without a ring, and some fans complain that Lebron coming along and winning one ring would not be enough for them.
Makes me wonder how long of a drought the Lakers would need to go through before the sense of entitlement waned -- 15 years without a ring; 20 years; 30 years; more? |
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BILBJH
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Joined: 23 Jul 2020
Posts: 5129
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Steve007 wrote: |
Why? Because of the past? The past is over with, it’s done. Just ask the Celtics and Bulls. Having a great history doesn’t guarantee success in the future, especially if things have changed. No team in the NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL has lived up to your standards. The closest is actually our team.
Only reason we should have high standards right now is the team has Lebron, Davis and Westbrook, and Lebron and Davis have proven they can win a title together.
Even Kobe was in favor of trading young potential, and in that case it was for an old player. He wanted the team to make the Bynum for Kidd deal. As he was saying, “I’m trying to win this (bleep) now.” |
It is funny that we went 10 years without a ring, and some fans complain that Lebron coming along and winning one ring would not be enough for them.
Makes me wonder how long of a drought the Lakers would need to go through before the sense of entitlement waned -- 15 years without a ring; 20 years; 30 years; more? |
You say we all have said our respective peace and then here you go bumping this thread again.
It's funny how those who are "sick" of the debate are the ones who keep perpetuating it. |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28401
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Real Lakers |
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| RusselDoeee01 wrote: | My dad brought this up to me tonight and i resonated with it and was wondering if you guys feel the same.
He said, I love my lakers but nobody on this team I see as real lakers… then proceeded with examples such as Kobe, magic, Shaq, Horry, Fisher…
I do think our current team can win the title but I still don’t get the same feel with any of these players that they are actual lakers.
Is this a product of todays game or more so something else?
On the current roster, there maybe is only 2 players that give me that laker feel… melo and Dwight. |
to be honest, none of them feel like real Lakers, except Russ.
he has that feel but it's to early to tell, though.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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Drifts
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Posts: 28401
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Triumph wrote: | Meh.
"Real Lakers" are anyone who puts the jersey on and plays their butts off for the team. And that absolutely includes LeBron and AD since they won a frigging title for the franchise in the same year that Kobe tragically passed.
I feel like the common denominator in threads like this and the other "What if we kept our young core...?" is general dislike for LeBron.
What did LeBron ever do to you guys to make you hate him so much?
Be one of the top 5 players of all-time and agree to come play for us when we were real crappy with no other established star and a bunch of young guys who never accomplished anything?
Some of y'all don't appreciate how good we have it. |
great job turning this into a Lebron thread. LOL
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12678
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| BILBJH wrote: | | If think paying a similar price for Kareem as AD is a good investment... that is your right. Personally, I think we paid too much and that's before even mentioning all the other small pieces we let go along the way for capspace. |
They won a title due to that trade. Meanwhile New Orleans has yet to make the playoffs with those guys they traded away and are off to a 1-7 start this season. They haven't won more than 31 games in either of those seasons. The Lakers don't win a title with those guys during the Lebron era. They weren't enough, at least not at this stage of their careers.
It would have been more interesting if they also had Randle and someone else in place of DLO. But as much as I love Ingram, he, Lonzo, and Hart do not add up to one AD. And the Lakers brought in Lebron to win now. |
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Laker_Town
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Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 25604
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:02 am Post subject: |
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It's the nature of the new team building model with free agency.
I'd say LeBron will always be remembered as a Cavs first for obvious reasons.
Of the current bunch, it's a matter of how long they stay. Westbrook seems to love being home and I should he stay for another 3-4 years, then yes. He's a real Lakers. Same with AD.
The other guys are business men. No issue with it but that's just how it is nowadays. I would have told you Caruso, Kuzma and now Reaves are real Lakers. |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10508
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Russ has given this franchise eight long........ games. Therefore he's the only real Laker for me. |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28401
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Laker_Town wrote: | It's the nature of the new team building model with free agency.
I'd say LeBron will always be remembered as a Cavs first for obvious reasons.
Of the current bunch, it's a matter of how long they stay. Westbrook seems to love being home and I should he stay for another 3-4 years, then yes. He's a real Lakers. Same with AD.
The other guys are business men. No issue with it but that's just how it is nowadays. I would have told you Caruso, Kuzma and now Reaves are real Lakers. |
yup, Russ grew up in the area, and grew up a Laker fan. he bleeds purple and gold. AD loves Kobe, he bleeds purple and gold. Ariza too, kind of.
these other guys, not so much. they look clueless what being in purple and gold mean, what being a Laker should be.
_________________
"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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PenG_
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Joined: 01 Feb 2020
Posts: 10508
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Threads like these are why LG won't ever have to worry about upgrading its servers. New posters don't stick around after the 1000th installment of "Lebron doesn't love Kobe enough to be a real Laker". |
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