Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Non-bubble Anthony Davis vs prime Pau Gasol
Who was better, Gasol during the championship runs or AD over the past two seasons? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Non-bubble Anthony Davis vs prime Pau Gasol
CandyCanes wrote:
Who was better, Gasol during the championship runs or AD over the past two seasons?
Why just the championship run years for Gasol and last two seasons for AD?
Seems like you know the REAL answer (AD>Gasol) so you set very specific parameters to skew the poll and gets the results you wanted.
AD in his "down year" had stats/production comparable to Gasol in his BEST years. The only things that Gasol has over AD is passing/bball IQ, post-play and overall health. AD waxes him in everything else.
I know we're all nostalgic for Gasol because he just retired and we look at the past glory through rose-colored glasses, but don't forget we had Gasol for 7 seasons and 6 playoffs. Out of those 6 playoffs, he was DOMINANT for 2 (the back-to-back championships), and struggled for 4. He was MANHANDLED in the 2008 Finals to the point where everyone was calling him Gasoft. In 2011 he played so bad that Phil Jackson literally punched him in his chest on national TV and rumors started surfacing that Shannon Brown had boned his girlfriend. 2012 and 2013 weren't that much better. His playoff struggles those 4 postseasons were a big reason why we didn't get another championship during that run.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12161 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:42 pm Post subject:
^He was pretty good in 08, just not in the finals, otherwise i agree. Love, love, love Pau, but AD is the better player. Kobe/AD would have been a treat (although I think PG is ultimately a better fit for the triangle due to his ability to pass/read defenses)
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:03 pm Post subject:
Cutheon wrote:
^He was pretty good in 08, just not in the finals, otherwise i agree. Love, love, love Pau, but AD is the better player. Kobe/AD would have been a treat (although I think PG is ultimately a better fit for the triangle due to his ability to pass/read defenses)
You don’t think Kobe’s ball dominance would have been a problem for Paul George? What about LeBron and PG? IMO PG doesn’t fit well next to Kawhi. Look at his impact with and without Kawhi. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
^He was pretty good in 08, just not in the finals, otherwise i agree. Love, love, love Pau, but AD is the better player. Kobe/AD would have been a treat (although I think PG is ultimately a better fit for the triangle due to his ability to pass/read defenses)
He was good for the regular season and first two rounds. He was bad against the Spurs in the WCFs, it's just that Kobe was so amazing that series that it camouflaged Pau's otherwise below-average series.
^He was pretty good in 08, just not in the finals, otherwise i agree. Love, love, love Pau, but AD is the better player. Kobe/AD would have been a treat (although I think PG is ultimately a better fit for the triangle due to his ability to pass/read defenses)
You don’t think Kobe’s ball dominance would have been a problem for Paul George? What about LeBron and PG? IMO PG doesn’t fit well next to Kawhi. Look at his impact with and without Kawhi.
Could be mistaken but I think he meant Pau, not PG.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35813 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:26 pm Post subject:
Batguano wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
^He was pretty good in 08, just not in the finals, otherwise i agree. Love, love, love Pau, but AD is the better player. Kobe/AD would have been a treat (although I think PG is ultimately a better fit for the triangle due to his ability to pass/read defenses)
You don’t think Kobe’s ball dominance would have been a problem for Paul George? What about LeBron and PG? IMO PG doesn’t fit well next to Kawhi. Look at his impact with and without Kawhi.
Could be mistaken but I think he meant Pau, not PG.
I guess PG is Pau Gasol and Paul George is PG13. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
The only things that Gasol has over AD is passing/bball IQ, post-play and overall health.
This seems rather important. I appreciate and value Bball IQ and passing a lot more than scoring. I was unsure what to vote for but this made me realize the answer is crystal clear, thanks.
Pau was a better passer. Maybe a better low post player. AD is better in every other aspect of the game and his defense is immeasurably better. I get it people get frustrated and want to vote against and blame one of their players. But I was one of Pau's biggest supporters when he was here. But this is not even a close comparison.
AD's stats this season:
Points: 23.8 (+3 over Pau's best ever, and +4.9 over Laker best)
Rebounds: 10.8 (-0.5 compared to Pau's best as Laker, but better than every other Gasol season as a Laker)
Assists: 2.9 (-1.2 over Pau's Laker best)
Steals: 1.1 (+0.4 over Pau's career best, +0.5 over Laker best)
Blocks: 2.1 (+0.4 over Pau's Lakers best, equal to Pau's career best)
Statistically AD is better. Then you add to it that he is so much more mobile defensively. This is a no contest, I'm sorry.
Not just smarter, better post up player, better defender, and better passer and playmaker. I would take a young Pau 100X over AD. AD is kind of a fraud imho. He has a lot of talents, great length and athleticism but his unmotivated and lackadaisical nature is a real detriment.
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12161 Location: Bay Area
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:23 pm Post subject:
Batguano wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Cutheon wrote:
^He was pretty good in 08, just not in the finals, otherwise i agree. Love, love, love Pau, but AD is the better player. Kobe/AD would have been a treat (although I think PG is ultimately a better fit for the triangle due to his ability to pass/read defenses)
You don’t think Kobe’s ball dominance would have been a problem for Paul George? What about LeBron and PG? IMO PG doesn’t fit well next to Kawhi. Look at his impact with and without Kawhi.
Could be mistaken but I think he meant Pau, not PG.
To make this even remotely fair, you also need to factor that Pau's best year came with Phil and the Triangle. In a different era. Where Pau did not have to defend SFs each night.
AD is defending smalls each night, and the 3 point line is the biggest weapon in the NBA. So Pau never had do this, and Pau also got to play in the Triangle.
Don't get me wrong, Pau is one of my fav Lakers ever. What he did for the franchise can not be said enough. There are things Pau does better than AD, no doubt about it.
However even if you take AD's worst years and physical limitations he's been dealing with since the title run, you have to consider if he were in the Triangle. the way there's cutting and all those options, he would be getting a ton more post ups and good shots off. Not saying we should run the Triangle, but running the Triangle helped Pau's effectiveness a great deal. If AD took soft jumpshots, Phil would get on him. He once fined Andrew Bynum for taking a 3 pointer. I mean, Phil didn't care until he stopped being in the NBA in any capacity of the rules, he still wanted his bigs in the basket. We're in a different situation, where AD has to space the floor and also has to hit outside shots as that's what the era calls for. The fact that he isn't always physical, makes it even more tough to watch at times.
Being coached by Phil = AD gets a ton more post ups and better shots off. But this also means that then the fanbase shifts towards whining about Phil, the Triangle being outdated yada yada
If we control for injuries, AD is the more dominant player on both ends. However, dominance doesn't always translate to wins (see Zion).
Gasol is more like Duncan, in that he is a fundamental big and will position himself to have a greater impact on the outcome of ballgames. That's why he gelled with Kobe on his first day here. He was willing to play the secondary and tertiary roles on the team (2nd option, defender, passer, shot blocker, etc). It was a match made in heaven, and Phil Jackson's preferred player.
I'm biased because Gasol's a high IQ talent, and one of the most fundamentally sound players I've seen in the past two decades. Dude was pulling moves on Garnett in the finals like it was nothing for him. We were blessed to have him.
AD is the much better 2 way player than Pau (who I love dearly).
I consider Pau as a clear cut #2 option player behind Kobe.
But I consider AD a 1B player, not a #2 option. He is a more prolific scorer than Pau and a DPOY level player on the other end. But, he's not a 1A alpha player like LBJ/Giannis/KD/Steph. Those guys are engines by themselves.
Joined: 30 Dec 2014 Posts: 1025 Location: San Diego
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:35 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
AD is the much better 2 way player than Pau (who I love dearly).
I consider Pau as a clear cut #2 option player behind Kobe.
But I consider AD a 1B player, not a #2 option. He is a more prolific scorer than Pau and a DPOY level player on the other end. But, he's not a 1A alpha player like LBJ/Giannis/KD/Steph. Those guys are engines by themselves.
I would agree with this is if AD was consistenatly bubble AD, but sadly he is not.
I'm honestly beginning to think he is one of the more over rated players in the league. He is certainly a superb defender. Far superior to Pau in that sense.
But offensively, he doesn't hold a candle to Pau, and he is certainly not a more prolific scorer than Pau.
AD is showing that he cannot carry a team, nor could he in New Orleans. Without LBJ, this team may not make the playoffs, just as his Pel teams often didn't. At least Pau led his Memphis teams into the playoffs frequently.
He is a clear #2, not a 1B, just as Pau was a clear #2 to Kobe.
He was magnificent in the bubble, but he has disappointed since (and prior).
Outside of bubble AD, Pau was the superior player.
I actually remember VLF saying he was over rated years ago, (and I believe he was in NO watching him closely), and I'm beginning to think he was actually right. _________________ "Rangers lead the way!"
West Point '88
UCLA '92
75th Ranger Regiment '88-'04
I see AD as a better more versatile defender and a better ball handler. Gasol was probably the more intelligent player and taller. Neither are who you want to build a championship team around, but both are great number 2 or 3 options. Gasol was more durable so that is a big factor as well. Gasol’s foot speed on defense might be an issue in todays NBA, but at the same time his intelligence may make up for it with his overall game. I like super intelligent players. I can’t really say who is better though, it’s situational at best. I didn’t vote.
But offensively, he doesn't hold a candle to Pau, and he is certainly not a more prolific scorer than Pau.
Pau averaged 20+ points twice in his career... And maxed out at 20.8 points. AD ettained that 20.8 when he was 20. And he's easily surpassed it in each of the past 8 years. He's averaging 24 right now with people complaining about it, and he has averaged 28 points twice. He is certainly a more prolific scorer than Pau. Pau may have more low post moves but AD has the whole package offensively.
Maybe Pau is more efficient though? No, not really, despite the fact that AD has taken 1.6 threes per game in his career, where Pau only took 0.4. But on his career AD shoots 0.7% higher. Pau did two sensational seasons with the Lakers when he shot 58.9% and 56.7%. Most of his career though was around the 51% range.
Pau only became an all star when he played with Kobe. Pau didn't make the playoffs until he played with Kobe. AD carried a weak NO team to the playoffs and even upset a team in round 1. AD is the far superior defender and it isn't even close. Pau is the better passer (AD cannot handle double teams). Now beyond that we have a few more things. AD last year missed too much time to qualify but Pau never had a turnaround that short. This year we have a really weird roster and with LBJ out, really exposed. That game against Chicago, the Bulls basically said anyone else beat us, AD is not. Pau never had that since Kobe would destroy any team doing that against them.
I love Pau and he was a great match with Kobe. But c'mon AD is better than Pau in virtually every category except passing out of the double teams.
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