Frank Vogel needs to go
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Outspoken
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:53 am    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
Becky Hammon


You're about to talk it into existence.. if she happens to be the coach, I'll make sure to shout you out. Do you think men would respect what she says consistently? Also, how do you think her offensive and defensive schemes would be?
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danzag
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject:

You guys are (bleep) crazy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:59 am    Post subject:

i think it's time for Vogel to go, not because of the mediocre records, but the way we got here. he has lost the team and locker room. the 3rd quarter meltdowns happened way too often shows he does not have ways to make in-game adjustments nor motivating players during halftime. bigger problem is who to replace him. if i hear phil jackson's name i'm gonna puke.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:10 am    Post subject:

All good questions.

I'm gonna bet Becky is very sound in her basketball acumen and guys will SAY they have no problem with a woman coach... Especially an all out baller like Hammon was.

But i bet unintentional "mansplaining" is inevitable. Especially with former all star veterans.

ideally, get her to be Frank's top assistant. Frank knows what that will mean. She's waiting in the wings for his job.

But there's no chance she leaves pop and the spurs unless it's a head coaching job.

Outspoken wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Becky Hammon


You're about to talk it into existence.. if she happens to be the coach, I'll make sure to shout you out. Do you think men would respect what she says consistently? Also, how do you think her offensive and defensive schemes would be?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject:

I can still remember when the sports fan world at large thought Spoelstra should be fired after a slow start with the Miami Heat superteam.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:57 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Becky Hammon


That's actually a pretty good answer. It's a weird idea -- not just because of her gender, but because of her gender plus the magnitude of the names and personalities on this roster. Hammond is eminently qualified and capable, but this would sound like a movie script. But setting that aside, some of the Popovich coaching style might work really well with this roster. I'm not down on Vogel at all, but this is the first time I've seen someone name a replacement that made me think, "Hmm, I can see that."


Really? you will see Udoka tonight and the Foston Iso offense in his glory.

BTW a rookie female coach to coach clan of veterans lead by Lebron and establish a new Offense?

I can tell you the ofense:

1. Lebron ISO
2. AD ISO
3. Brodie ISO
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Goldenwest
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:24 am    Post subject:

Lebron is out, that has a lot to do with the struggles. Vogel is not the problem, the team is driven by Lebron and AD, if one of them is out a coach has to rely on WB. As far as managing egos, there's only one guy that could handle a group like this and i think he's retired from coaching.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
Lebron is out, that has a lot to do with the struggles. Vogel is not the problem, the team is driven by Lebron and AD, if one of them is out a coach has to rely on WB. As far as managing egos, there's only one guy that could handle a group like this and i think he's retired from coaching.


missing one of the stars does not give the team excuse to lose to the worst team in the league blowing 20+ lead, TWICE. does not give you excuse to lose to TWolves by 30 points at home. does not give you excuse to dog on defensive end every single game, leading league in points allow. the team has quit on Vogel. it's interesting you brought up managing egos. the problem with this team is the stars have NO EGOs, all of them don't care about winning and losing.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:46 am    Post subject:

I don't think any coach could make a significant difference unless they got full player personnel control as well.

They will probably leave Vogel in as long as they can so he can be a scapegoat if LBJ can no longer repair the fiasco singlehandedly.

If they fired him now and LBJ couldn't fix it... well, then there would be nobody else to blame.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:50 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
Becky Hammon


That's actually a pretty good answer. It's a weird idea -- not just because of her gender, but because of her gender plus the magnitude of the names and personalities on this roster. Hammond is eminently qualified and capable, but this would sound like a movie script. But setting that aside, some of the Popovich coaching style might work really well with this roster. I'm not down on Vogel at all, but this is the first time I've seen someone name a replacement that made me think, "Hmm, I can see that."


Really? you will see Udoka tonight and the Foston Iso offense in his glory.

BTW a rookie female coach to coach clan of veterans lead by Lebron and establish a new Offense?

I can tell you the ofense:

1. Lebron ISO
2. AD ISO
3. Brodie ISO


Eh. You probably would have said the said thing about Phil Jackson taking over the Bulls with MJ or Pat Riley taking over the Lakers with Kareem and Magic. They were rookie coaches.

People are getting too worked thinking players won't listen to her because she's a woman.

Players listen to her now. Hammon has been an assistant coach for 7 years. She's used to being around superstars, and she has great people skills.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:13 am    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Lebron is out, that has a lot to do with the struggles. Vogel is not the problem, the team is driven by Lebron and AD, if one of them is out a coach has to rely on WB. As far as managing egos, there's only one guy that could handle a group like this and i think he's retired from coaching.


missing one of the stars does not give the team excuse to lose to the worst team in the league blowing 20+ lead, TWICE. does not give you excuse to lose to TWolves by 30 points at home. does not give you excuse to dog on defensive end every single game, leading league in points allow. the team has quit on Vogel. it's interesting you brought up managing egos. the problem with this team is the stars have NO EGOs, all of them don't care about winning and losing.


Lebron is the leader on the floor, it seems as if they don't know what to do when he's out. Its a Lebron dependent squad. If AD was out instead of Lebron i think we would wouldn't be as bad. Using Vogel as a scape goat is just pointless - in fact it will cause more instability.
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buduan
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:09 pm    Post subject:

I'm sitting here watching the guy who should be our coach thoroughly out coach the scrub on our bench.

Here is a real offensive sequence. Lebron dribbles about 15 seconds off the clock. Ellington flashes to the top of the key and Lebron passes him the ball. He immediately passes it back and now there is less than 5 seconds left on the clock and Lebron throws it back to Ellington for a desperation 28 footer.

With less than a minute left Westbrook brings the ball down the court. Makes one pass to Lebron who heaves a 3 pointer.

Meanwhile on the other end the Mavs with a bunch of tier 2 role players is giving the Lakers the business. Taking their defense apart pass by pass. WITHOUT LUKA.

The Lakers have 5 future HOF's on the roster and they are playing remedial playground basketball while the Mavs are playing like a professional basketball team.

HOW DOES THIS SCRUB STILL HAVE A JOB?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:36 pm    Post subject:

buduan wrote:
I'm sitting here watching the guy who should be our coach thoroughly out coach the scrub on our bench.

Here is a real offensive sequence. Lebron dribbles about 15 seconds off the clock. Ellington flashes to the top of the key and Lebron passes him the ball. He immediately passes it back and now there is less than 5 seconds left on the clock and Lebron throws it back to Ellington for a desperation 28 footer.

With less than a minute left Westbrook brings the ball down the court. Makes one pass to Lebron who heaves a 3 pointer.

Meanwhile on the other end the Mavs with a bunch of tier 2 role players is giving the Lakers the business. Taking their defense apart pass by pass. WITHOUT LUKA.

The Lakers have 5 future HOF's on the roster and they are playing remedial playground basketball while the Mavs are playing like a professional basketball team.

HOW DOES THIS SCRUB STILL HAVE A JOB?!?!?!?!?!?!?


You ain’t lyin’……. half court offense is cringe worthy most of the time….

Fish pointing out in postgame that they might be intentionally wasting shot clock to keep the scores lower and mostly play half court D and that appears to be how Vogel is coaching it…

Unfortunately, what that philosophy does is both let bad teams hang around and when the garbage LBJ ISO offense ain’t working, they often get nipped when guys like Kleba bank in a garbage 3 with time winding down.

Against a team without their best player, it took an Ellington miracle 3 off a botched Dallas rebound + barely missed Trey Burke 3 even to get to OT……..then they needed both a miracle Russ 3 AND the undrafted rookie’s 3 even to get to the winning 107 points…. This strategy/gameplan is not a recipe for playoff success against teams that can easily average 110-115 a game (cough GSW).
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:06 pm    Post subject:

The least Vogel can do is put out a balanced lineup of shooters and playmakers. It's not like he has to draw up plays
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:32 am    Post subject:

Bron-Brodie-Reaves-Rondo... multiple playmakers, how's the offensive schemes so far? still spacing issue?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
i think it's time for Vogel to go, not because of the mediocre records, but the way we got here. he has lost the team and locker room. the 3rd quarter meltdowns happened way too often shows he does not have ways to make in-game adjustments nor motivating players during halftime.


The Lakers' 3rd quarter performances have improved dramatically of late so I think your comments were premature.
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paymonM
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:28 pm    Post subject:

why ? He was given a dysfunctional roster. But hey, if it makes you feel better, yeah, by all means, get rid of them.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Something I found interesting was that after W. Ellington made a three pointer in the late/middle fourth quarter, LeBrons immediate response was to look at Frank Vogel and to beg to keep Ellington in the game. “Keep him in the game! We need him!”, was the way Stu described it. Even the players are anticipating stupid rotations from the coach and begging him to resist
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:44 am    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
Something I found interesting was that after W. Ellington made a three pointer in the late/middle fourth quarter, LeBrons immediate response was to look at Frank Vogel and to beg to keep Ellington in the game. “Keep him in the game! We need him!”, was the way Stu described it. Even the players are anticipating stupid rotations from the coach and begging him to resist


Well, at some moment WEllington having 0 points in 21 minutes was not exactly killing it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:08 am    Post subject:

Vogel is a great defensive coach.
His defense got the recent chip.

problem is Pelinka and Vogel are not always on the same page.

Pelinka tries to quick fix things not thinking long term.
He makes crazy changes forcing Vogel to scramble to keep up.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 3:49 pm    Post subject:

How can anybody judge anything about this team under the conditions that this team has played this year.

It's impossible.

The starting line up has been different almost every game.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:14 pm    Post subject:

WC13 wrote:
How can anybody judge anything about this team under the conditions that this team has played this year.

It's impossible.

The starting line up has been different almost every game.


You can judge management based on that, they brought in the players who underwhelm/ miss games. But I agree that you can’t blame Vogel.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
Vogel is a great defensive coach.
His defense got the recent chip.

problem is Pelinka and Vogel are not always on the same page.

Pelinka tries to quick fix things not thinking long term.
He makes crazy changes forcing Vogel to scramble to keep up.


This is how I see it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
WC13 wrote:
How can anybody judge anything about this team under the conditions that this team has played this year.

It's impossible.

The starting line up has been different almost every game.


You can judge management based on that, they brought in the players who underwhelm/ miss games. But I agree that you can’t blame Vogel.


Same thoughts here. This is a result of the summer we had and the roster we wound up with, not Vogel.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject:

<double post>

Last edited by TooMuchMajicBuss on Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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