Starting AD at the 5 just doesn't work
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:04 pm    Post subject: Starting AD at the 5 just doesn't work

We've experimented with starting AD or playing him at the 5 in our main lineups, and the results are bad. It hurts us defensively as we don't have that weak-side shotblocker when AD's man beats him off the dribble.

Starting DJ at the 5 and playing Dwight more would also help with our piss-poor defensive rebounding.

We're 8-9 right now. If we don't turn things around very soon it will be too late.
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2019
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:22 pm    Post subject:

Too soft to play the 5 right out the gates. You can close with him there but the physicality by most guys at that position take him out of his game, get him in foul trouble, etc.
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LakerMindLA
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:23 pm    Post subject:

Biggest problem is AD at the 5 is better for the offense and worse for the defense. With how bad Russ and Carmelo are on D, we need a 2nd big to protect the paint.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject:

Actually melo at the 4 doesn’t work, I was hoping Vogel can stay away from that once lebron came back, and I was wrong
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting AD at the 5 just doesn't work

slavavov wrote:


Starting DJ at the 5 and playing Dwight more would also help with our piss-poor defensive rebounding.


Out piss poor defensive rebounding started on opening night with AJ at the 5.
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slavavov
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:35 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Biggest problem is AD at the 5 is better for the offense and worse for the defense. With how bad Russ and Carmelo are on D, we need a 2nd big to protect the paint.

Our offense hasn't really improved with AD at the 5.

Plus, playing DJ or Dwight at the 5 a lot would get us more fast breaks and transition points since it would improve our defense. That alone would also improve our offense and give our guys an injection of confidence.
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misterchipmunk
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:36 pm    Post subject:

Our defense and rebounding has always been terrible even when our centers were at the 5. Other team is just driving to the paint at will regardless and scoring with ease.
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Theseus
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:38 pm    Post subject:

We lack defensive personnel.

We traded two of our best defensive players for Westbrook.

Then we added guys who don't seemingly play effective defense. The only guy we added that looks competent defensively is Austin Reaves and he is hurt now.

AD rotates over and makes the right play a lot, but usually gives up the offensive rebound because no one rotates over to box out or guard his man. This is where we miss AC and KCP. Hell, even Kuzma was securing defensive rebounds effectively last year.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:21 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
Actually melo at the 4 doesn’t work, I was hoping Vogel can stay away from that once lebron came back, and I was wrong


I despised the idea of Melo at the 4 but was told to keep critiques in check...its getting harder.

He's a terrible defender. Ok, I'll shutup now.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:22 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Actually melo at the 4 doesn’t work, I was hoping Vogel can stay away from that once lebron came back, and I was wrong


I despised the idea of Melo at the 4 but was told to keep critiques in check...its getting harder.

He's a terrible defender. Ok, I'll shutup now.

Can’t blame Vogel when lebron was out, we had no players at the 4.
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LGFan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:23 pm    Post subject:

a 6'5 Draymond can play Center but a 6'11 soft turd cant play

ok got it
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:24 pm    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
DrDent wrote:
mad55557777 wrote:
Actually melo at the 4 doesn’t work, I was hoping Vogel can stay away from that once lebron came back, and I was wrong


I despised the idea of Melo at the 4 but was told to keep critiques in check...its getting harder.

He's a terrible defender. Ok, I'll shutup now.

Can’t blame Vogel when lebron was out, we had no players at the 4.


What about tonight?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Why is a mellow starting he is best off the bench I think that is what is going to end up getting Vogal fired is his decisions in these lineups Westbrook should not be with the starters she should be with the second unit and mellow should be coming off the bench even if it hurts the starting unit a little bit
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:40 pm    Post subject:

What is Damien Jones doing nowadays
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Halflife
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:42 pm    Post subject:

The line up that started game was excellent
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miggz23
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:29 am    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
a 6'5 Draymond can play Center but a 6'11 soft turd cant play

ok got it


Draymond don’t start at center because Kerr knows it’s not sustainable all season. Warriors are able to get away with also because they have like 3-4 guys on the court that are 6’6 and taller.
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defense
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:56 am    Post subject:

LGFan wrote:
a 6'5 Draymond can play Center but a 6'11 soft turd cant play

ok got it


There are 5 players on the court at a time. Draymond also doesn't play center very often
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:14 am    Post subject:

This and the pace.

I think need to slow the F down. So we can set up our D as well.

By having AD at the 4. We have a good close out defender on shooters and a good man defender at the 4, without losing rim protection inside. With AD at the 5, you have rim protection, but the closing out on shooters outside isn't the same and neither is the rim protection, as when AD switches on the perimeter no one can really defend the paint.

We need to slow down the offense a bit, and allow our elite 1 on 1 players to go to work to create something. Bron, AD, WB. If teams play us in a way where the 2 bigs and WB is hurting us, then we can sit WB early and bring him back in the game with the 2nd unit.

Should continue to close with AD at the 5, but outside of that context, I don't think this has shown it will work nearly as well as everyone hoped. Nor the pace helps us, nor has the extra spacing allowed for WB to fit in better. Just do what you do best, take advantage of AD's elite size and skills at the 4, 2 rim protectors and Bron's post game. If teams just zone or pack the paint, we need to be patient. Our offense is too forced. Too much pushing of speed and reliance on the 3 ball. When you have Bron, AD, WB, THT. No need to be shooting 40% of your shots from the 3.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:19 am    Post subject:

Let me add, outrebounded 51-33, yesterday. AD has been saying that when he goes out and switches on D, it's been hard for the team to defend inside and rebound. The thing is when you have AD at the 4, if the switch is made by Dwight, then AD is there to help on the glass. Your rebounding ability is more with Dwight/AD/Bron than AD/Bron/THT.

Get Dwight in there, an elite rebound guy. A good defender. He will assure that there is some man D, rim protection, toughness. If he gets into foul trouble, give some time to DAJ. We need that rim protection. Rebounding.

In the end the season is almost a quarter way through. We're still struggling like it's preseason. We need to make some changes. Whatever we initially planned is not working.
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Koalita
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:40 am    Post subject:

It seems kinda ironic that our best starting C in the last 3 years are probably Javale McGee & Marc Gasol, who were heavily critizised here and there.....
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject:

Vogel put lebron at the 5 to start the 4th and WB quickly got some layups, and of course we gave it all back as soon as they started to crash the boards. They didn’t even have brown and Williams last night and still beat us on rebounds.
The AD at five lineup won’t work without someone like lebron being the 4. When it was so deadly in 2020, Kieff and lebron were on the court together. AD was able to switch on anyone without us losing rebounds.
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mad55557777
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject:

Koalita wrote:
It seems kinda ironic that our best starting C in the last 3 years are probably Javale McGee & Marc Gasol, who were heavily critizised here and there.....

I would take Drummond, Kieff, gasol, McGee or even Damian jones over DAJ and stop the crap lineup with melo at the 4. Melo probably has to score 25 points a game just to make up the layups/boards he gave up. He was never a 4 in his career, what made rob and Vogel think he can be one?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:21 am    Post subject:

miggz23 wrote:
LGFan wrote:
a 6'5 Draymond can play Center but a 6'11 soft turd cant play

ok got it


Draymond don’t start at center because Kerr knows it’s not sustainable all season. Warriors are able to get away with also because they have like 3-4 guys on the court that are 6’6 and taller.


Yea they start Looney
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Draymond who like others have mentioned doesn’t even play center majority of the game and is probably one of the worst comparisons for AD.

Dray doesn’t have even half the offensive talent AD possesses therefore he can focus all his energy to defense. Come to think about it I don’t think Draymond has half the defensive talent of AD as well. AD right now is expected to do everything and that limits his energy on the defensive end.

Imagine if AD played with Steph and Klay.
We already know what AD is capable of accomplishing with just Lebron.
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Lucky_Shot
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:05 pm    Post subject:

I disagree, wouldn't mind DH starting against bigger teams but AD at the 5 makes way too much sense
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