Vogel will pay the price for Pelinka's lack of vision
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
troy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:15 pm    Post subject: Vogel will pay the price for Pelinka's lack of vision

Frank Vogel will be fired before the season is over. In fact, he may be fired any day now.

I do not believe Vogel has any say over who is playing on the team. I think Rob and Lebron make the decisions about who's on the team, and Vogel has to play along. The problem is that Vogel doesn't have the correct pieces he needs, and likely wants, to be successful for the type of coach that he is. In addition, he has to deal with a radically changed roster every season. Vogel was put into a position that was impossible for him to be successful in.

Who is to blame? Easy. Rob Pelinka. But Rob has the advantage. He backstabbed Magic Johnson, then he convinced Jeanie Buss to stay out of basketball decisions. Vogel was brought here to do as directed. He couldn't even pick his own assistant coaches. Pelinka, like the Game of Thrones, manipulated his way into the power position, and he will not take the blame for this travesty that is this Laker season. And of course, Lebron James won't either.

Frank Vogel will be made the sacrificial lamb. He will be fired, maybe sooner than we think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Outspoken
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 5141

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:19 pm    Post subject:

This may be a fact, except,

Quote:
then he convinced Jeanie Buss to stay out of basketball decisions.


Jeanie Buss has said that she knows nothing about the basketball side of things. She said that she would stay out of that part and let the experts do their job. I don't know what experts she was referring to, but none the less, she makes it a point not to get involved with the basketball side.


Last edited by Outspoken on Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
2019
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 8965

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Vogel will pay the price for Pelinka's lack of vision

troy wrote:
Frank Vogel will be fired before the season is over. In fact, he may be fired any day now.

I do not believe Vogel has any say over who is playing on the team. I think Rob and Lebron make the decisions about who's on the team, and Vogel has to play along. The problem is that Vogel doesn't have the correct pieces he needs, and likely wants, to be successful for the type of coach that he is. In addition, he has to deal with a radically changed roster every season. Vogel was put into a position that was impossible for him to be successful in.

Who is to blame? Easy. Rob Pelinka. But Rob has the advantage. He backstabbed Magic Johnson, then he convinced Jeanie Buss to stay out of basketball decisions. Vogel was brought here to do as directed. He couldn't even pick his own assistant coaches. Pelinka, like the Game of Thrones, manipulated his way into the power position, and he will not take the blame for this travesty that is this Laker season. And of course, Lebron James won't either.

Frank Vogel will be made the sacrificial lamb. He will be fired, maybe sooner than we think.


Quite the dramatic revisionist history but it does seem like he's on his way to a firing. If this road trip continues the way it has, he may never coach at staples again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
troy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Vogel will pay the price for Pelinka's lack of vision

2019 wrote:
troy wrote:
Frank Vogel will be fired before the season is over. In fact, he may be fired any day now.

I do not believe Vogel has any say over who is playing on the team. I think Rob and Lebron make the decisions about who's on the team, and Vogel has to play along. The problem is that Vogel doesn't have the correct pieces he needs, and likely wants, to be successful for the type of coach that he is. In addition, he has to deal with a radically changed roster every season. Vogel was put into a position that was impossible for him to be successful in.

Who is to blame? Easy. Rob Pelinka. But Rob has the advantage. He backstabbed Magic Johnson, then he convinced Jeanie Buss to stay out of basketball decisions. Vogel was brought here to do as directed. He couldn't even pick his own assistant coaches. Pelinka, like the Game of Thrones, manipulated his way into the power position, and he will not take the blame for this travesty that is this Laker season. And of course, Lebron James won't either.

Frank Vogel will be made the sacrificial lamb. He will be fired, maybe sooner than we think.


Quite the dramatic revisionist history but it does seem like he's on his way to a firing. If this road trip continues the way it has, he may never coach at staples again.


Context is important. Pelinka is not to be trusted. Vogel will have Greyhound tracks on his back any day now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 25776

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject:

Maybe. Some of the blogger types like Pincus seem to think that Fizdale could take over as interim head coach. This season could turn into a dumpster fire of legendary proportions. I'm not sure that there has ever been a basketball coach who could make this work. I certainly don't think it is Fizdale.

For that reason, I think Vogel will get some time. If there is any coach who can find a way to make this team play defense, it's Vogel. If Pelinka fires Vogel, and things get worse, he loses the ability to make Vogel the scapegoat at the end of the season. If Pelinka is as much of a snake as you think, that's a highly relevant consideration.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
DrDent
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 30 Jun 2016
Posts: 11343

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:01 pm    Post subject:

Sorry, the title just summoned this infamous scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anALWMR860s


_________________
"One thing I admire about Kuzma is his unwavering confidence. He truly has no idea that he’s not as good as he thinks." - Killer_Z
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 55554

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:07 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Some of the blogger types like Pincus seem to think that Fizdale could take over as interim head coach

Source/link to Emplay saying this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
KindCrippler2000
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 13054

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:08 pm    Post subject:

Keep Vigil. Fire Rod Plunker.
_________________
"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." — Gandhi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
troy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
Sorry, the title just summoned this infamous scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anALWMR860s



I like it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 25776

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:11 pm    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
Some of the blogger types like Pincus seem to think that Fizdale could take over as interim head coach

Source/link to Emplay saying this?


It's in the Pincus post stickied on this page. Go all the way to the end of the article.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 55554

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Quote:
Some of the blogger types like Pincus seem to think that Fizdale could take over as interim head coach

Source/link to Emplay saying this?


It's in the Pincus post stickied on this page. Go all the way to the end of the article.

Thank you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Reply with quote
mykolbeta
Sixth Man
Sixth Man


Joined: 22 Oct 2012
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:30 pm    Post subject:

DrDent wrote:
Sorry, the title just summoned this infamous scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anALWMR860s



I also came into this thread expecting some Return of the Jedi from the OP, thankfully you delivered.
_________________
Peace & Love
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
cthroatgtr
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1187

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:42 pm    Post subject:

Pelinka really screwed this one up. Last years team intact was a far better team. Bring back Dwight, add Nunn, Monk, Ellington and Melo and you are way better. Flip Dennis for something even more so. Instead they gut the roster to bring on Westbrook, whom EVERYONE knew was going to be a tough fit with Lebron anyways. You have no protection for AD down low. The roster is stacked full of guards. What the hell was the plan? Last year's team had two issues: shooting and health. You didn't need a big splash just a small one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
mad55557777
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 10537

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:48 pm    Post subject:

cthroatgtr wrote:
Pelinka really screwed this one up. Last years team intact was a far better team. Bring back Dwight, add Nunn, Monk, Ellington and Melo and you are way better. Flip Dennis for something even more so. Instead they gut the roster to bring on Westbrook, whom EVERYONE knew was going to be a tough fit with Lebron anyways. You have no protection for AD down low. The roster is stacked full of guards. What the hell was the plan? Last year's team had two issues: shooting and health. You didn't need a big splash just a small one.

Pretty sure rob wanted Hield. There was no point for him to even talk to the kings if he wanted Westbrook
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker4lifer4real
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 1785

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:53 pm    Post subject:

If Vogel wants to save his job, he mans up and puts Russ with the second unit as a 6th man. Tells the press Russ needs to do what’s best for the team to win. He just said if you don’t play defense you won’t get minutes, so he has an excuse for Russ to sit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Ksig
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Dec 2016
Posts: 1026

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:39 pm    Post subject:

Laker4lifer4real wrote:
If Vogel wants to save his job, he mans up and puts Russ with the second unit as a 6th man. Tells the press Russ needs to do what’s best for the team to win. He just said if you don’t play defense you won’t get minutes, so he has an excuse for Russ to sit.


Honestly Im down for this. It will probably result in Russ lashing out and maybe requesting a trade. But at this point if we just sit him and roll with Lebron/AD and role players we have a better chance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker4lifer4real
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jul 2017
Posts: 1785

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Ksig wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
If Vogel wants to save his job, he mans up and puts Russ with the second unit as a 6th man. Tells the press Russ needs to do what’s best for the team to win. He just said if you don’t play defense you won’t get minutes, so he has an excuse for Russ to sit.


Honestly Im down for this. It will probably result in Russ lashing out and maybe requesting a trade. But at this point if we just sit him and roll with Lebron/AD and role players we have a better chance.


I agee on the lashing out part. Vogel then tells AD and Lebron to deal with it since they wanted him here. I mean Melo dealt with this same situation before too. It is hard but Russ needs to accept whatever role lead to wins. It may be impossible for “Mr. Triple Double” to accept. His concept of success is numbers, not wins.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Polarbear
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 1817

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:36 pm    Post subject:

Was thinking about this before I even got on post Tonight I don’t think Vogel is a bad coach I do think that the chemistry is just all wrong I’ve been thinking for a while now that Westbrook needs to be leading the bench unit and in all honesty if a trade possibility of the trade deadline should come up he should be gone

Pelinka is not going anywhere So they have to fix there’s some other way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
M2K
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 2338

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:32 pm    Post subject:

The problem with the Lakers is defense and Westbrook.

Its not complicated.

When you throw away KCP and Caruso... you better replace them with similar or better defensive players. Rob Pelinka did just the opposite.

If anyone should be fired, its Rob.

Caruso is thriving defensively in Chicago and a key player on their team. To think we could have kept someone that brought exactly what we lack now... falls on the GM.

Rob Pelinka went for the flash (Westbrook) instead of giving value to cohesiveness, chemistry, defense, etc. He did the same last year letting Dwight Howard walk to sign Montrezl Harrell.

Pelinka's team building philosophy is terrible... while his skills at getting players to sign is strong.

Lakers better not wait for the trade deadline to start making trades. They need to find a way to acquire Ben Simmons now.. even if that means giving up any player not named LeBron and Davis.
_________________
A three headed monster is forming before our eyes in LA...Lebron, AD and....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11563

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:23 am    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
Lakers better not wait for the trade deadline to start making trades. They need to find a way to acquire Ben Simmons now.. even if that means giving up any player not named LeBron and Davis.


Rob lacks vision, but acquiring Ben Simmons a visionary move? Westbrook would certainly be the person traded for him. But what makes you think Ben Simmons is a better fit that Westbrook? He's basically been a larger version of Westbrook lite throughout his career. All the same benefits and deficiencies offensively, but never as . Except that he is completely unwilling to even take a jump shot. He's 5/34 from three... In his entire career. Moreover, just like Westbrook and Schroder, his primary strength is running the show, which doesn't mesh all that well with Lebron. I just don't see him as any better of a fit.

Yes, his defense is good. But he's coming off an awful playoffs, has been subpar in each of the last two post-seasons, and has cited mental health issues in his refusal to show up for camp to start the season. He's never shown that he has another gear. The main draw would be that he's younger. But he's also under contract for four seasons more years at roughly $140m.

If Westbrook isn't a great fit (which he isn't) then Ben wouldn't be either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
KingKobe20
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 14846
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:34 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
M2K wrote:
Lakers better not wait for the trade deadline to start making trades. They need to find a way to acquire Ben Simmons now.. even if that means giving up any player not named LeBron and Davis.


Rob lacks vision, but acquiring Ben Simmons a visionary move? Westbrook would certainly be the person traded for him. But what makes you think Ben Simmons is a better fit that Westbrook? He's basically been a larger version of Westbrook lite throughout his career. All the same benefits and deficiencies offensively, but never as . Except that he is completely unwilling to even take a jump shot. He's 5/34 from three... In his entire career. Moreover, just like Westbrook and Schroder, his primary strength is running the show, which doesn't mesh all that well with Lebron. I just don't see him as any better of a fit.

Yes, his defense is good. But he's coming off an awful playoffs, has been subpar in each of the last two post-seasons, and has cited mental health issues in his refusal to show up for camp to start the season. He's never shown that he has another gear. The main draw would be that he's younger. But he's also under contract for four seasons more years at roughly $140m.

If Westbrook isn't a great fit (which he isn't) then Ben wouldn't be either.


People are mad at Russ' contract. Which if he opts in (more than likely not because he'll want a new deal with more years) he's still off the books after next season.


Ben is due mega max money until after the 2025 season.

35, 37, 40
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
troy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 3402

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:53 am    Post subject:

Ksig wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
If Vogel wants to save his job, he mans up and puts Russ with the second unit as a 6th man. Tells the press Russ needs to do what’s best for the team to win. He just said if you don’t play defense you won’t get minutes, so he has an excuse for Russ to sit.


Honestly Im down for this. It will probably result in Russ lashing out and maybe requesting a trade. But at this point if we just sit him and roll with Lebron/AD and role players we have a better chance.


All the more reason for Vogel to do this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
cathy78
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1271

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:13 am    Post subject:

troy wrote:
Ksig wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
If Vogel wants to save his job, he mans up and puts Russ with the second unit as a 6th man. Tells the press Russ needs to do what’s best for the team to win. He just said if you don’t play defense you won’t get minutes, so he has an excuse for Russ to sit.


Honestly Im down for this. It will probably result in Russ lashing out and maybe requesting a trade. But at this point if we just sit him and roll with Lebron/AD and role players we have a better chance.


All the more reason for Vogel to do this.

I hope he has the balls and the support to do this. His job is coaching the best he can with what he is given, so he should.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 10245
Location: Boulder ;)

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:25 am    Post subject:

Name one team that wants Westbrook and would absorb his 91 million (21-22/22-23) contract

We're (bleep). Can't magically make minimum contracts perform like stars..they are minimums for a reason
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 25776

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:37 am    Post subject:

cathy78 wrote:
troy wrote:
Ksig wrote:
Laker4lifer4real wrote:
If Vogel wants to save his job, he mans up and puts Russ with the second unit as a 6th man. Tells the press Russ needs to do what’s best for the team to win. He just said if you don’t play defense you won’t get minutes, so he has an excuse for Russ to sit.


Honestly Im down for this. It will probably result in Russ lashing out and maybe requesting a trade. But at this point if we just sit him and roll with Lebron/AD and role players we have a better chance.


All the more reason for Vogel to do this.

I hope he has the balls and the support to do this. His job is coaching the best he can with what he is given, so he should.


I understand the frustration after the embarrassment of losing to the Celtics on national television. But let's keep some perspective. The only way that we are going to manage to contend for a title this year is to find a way to make this work. We aren't going to make it work by pretending that Lebron and Davis are the same players that they were two seasons ago in the bubble. We aren't going to make it work by pretending that guys like Carmelo, Monk, and Ellington are defenders. We aren't going to make it work by scapegoating Westbrook for all of the ills of the team.

So you want to go with Lebron, Davis, and the role players? That's a brilliant idea. Those role players have been burning it up this year. Sure thing. It's just that Westbrook has been holding them back. Obviously. If we boot Westbrook to the bench, guys like Bazemore and Monk could finally live up to their potential. How could anyone not realize this?

Seriously, I was on record as vehemently opposed to the Westbrook trade before it even happened. I said that, if the trade happened, it would be funny to see everyone turn on Westbrook after they got a good look at what he really was. I was wrong. It isn't funny. But these are the cards we have been dealt by Pelinka and Team Lebron. We aren't going to make it work by banishing Westbrook to the bench. Heck, he's only part of the problem with this weak excuse for roster construction. The rest of the problems -- age, lack of defense, lack of size on the wing, lack of chemistry -- will not be fixed by scapegoating Westbrook.

It feels weird to be kinda sorta defending Westbrook. My low opinion of him is unchanged. However, we need to play this hand. We aren't going to fix the stupid snap decision by Pelinka and Team Lebron by making another stupid snap decision.
_________________
Internet Argument Resolved
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB