Pelinka has Lebron and AD and he still manages to build a lotto team. Mitch and Jim didn't have Lebron and AD. Back then, nobody wanted to play for the Lakers except for Moz and Deng. Right now, everybody wants to play with Lebron and AD. The Lakers had choices and they made some terrible ones.
Pelinka has Lebron and AD and he still manages to build a lotto team. Mitch and Jim didn't have Lebron and AD. Back then, nobody wanted to play for the Lakers except for Moz and Deng. Right now, everybody wants to play with Lebron and AD. The Lakers had choices and they made some terrible ones.
Lebron and AD has played together in 25 of the last 99 games.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:34 pm Post subject:
mad55557777 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
Pelinka has Lebron and AD and he still manages to build a lotto team. Mitch and Jim didn't have Lebron and AD. Back then, nobody wanted to play for the Lakers except for Moz and Deng. Right now, everybody wants to play with Lebron and AD. The Lakers had choices and they made some terrible ones.
Lebron and AD has played together in 25 of the last 99 games.
So maybe relying on the two of them is a mistake? _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Rob may be by far the worst so far. Magic and Rob together are terrible as hell. Rob still has a chance to turn that outlook around, but right now, he is not good at all.
Ask yourself this question. if Magic, Jim, Pelinka and Mitch were all Free Agents and interested in a GM position, which of them do you think would get an offer?
This iteration of the Lakers doesn't hire competitively in their front office. It's run like a bureaucracy, where Jeanie is looking to keep control more than she's looking for a competitive advantage. Some of that's her fault, some of that falls to Dr. Buss, who left a difficult ownership situation (trust split 7 ways owning only 2/3 of the team) and management situation (installing Jim instead of installing a competent executive to run the basketball operations). He put his kids in positions they didn't earn and weren't prepared for.
Only Mitch is a qualified GM who was coached by Jerry West, Rob is more than a agent, still on the way to develop, Jimmy does not have enough IQ to run the firm, Magic know the game well, but he is too sloppy with a big mouth, his logic is weird sometimes. _________________ You are not alone.
To me, Mitch and Buss were banking on the long game. While things didn't work out as planned, they were way more competent. I still think they'd be here today if they didn't give Deng and Mozgov those ludicrous contracts. I still kind of wonder how much say Luke had in recruiting those players. Seems like he was heavily involved in some of the personnel decisions. Mitch is doing a heck of a job in Charlotte.
Rob played the short game. While it did net them a ring, the only way the Lakers remain halfway relevant without Lebron is if AD stays healthy. They don't have many assets to work with. It's going to be tough to watch them navigate free agency and future drafts.
Buss was banking on the long game in a realistic way, Lakers fans just didn't want to believe in a 'rebuild'. Lakers fans wanted it "Right here right now" and rebuilds usually take longer than that.
Magic has done moves and trades that were terrible in general.
Pelinka has Lebron and AD and he still manages to build a lotto team. Mitch and Jim didn't have Lebron and AD. Back then, nobody wanted to play for the Lakers except for Moz and Deng. Right now, everybody wants to play with Lebron and AD. The Lakers had choices and they made some terrible ones.
Lebron and AD has played together in 25 of the last 99 games.
So maybe relying on the two of them is a mistake?
Why don’t you ask your beloved owner ballmer if he made the mistake?
Buss was banking on the long game in a realistic way, Lakers fans just didn't want to believe in a 'rebuild'. Lakers fans wanted it "Right here right now" and rebuilds usually take longer than that.
Magic has done moves and trades that were terrible in general.
So Magic was the worst.
I could agree with this. Magic gave away Zubac to our rival, for a coke and a smile. Gave away DLO way too soon. It was less about the Moz contract, but more about getting rid of DLO for the Nick Young situation. A Nick Young that was not in our future plans. By time the next year, Nick wasn't even on the team anymore. They also viewed DLO as a point, not an SG that can playmake; like he has been his entire career before getting drafted into the NBA. We didn't get to see Zo next to DLO. Not saying they would have been a dynamic duo, but it was worth the look, until trade deadline atleast. Zo, DLO, Ingram, Randle, (potentially) Kuz or Josh Hart, Zubac.
Magic had the worst asset management. He was trying to trade Zo, Kuz, Ingram, Josh Hart, Zubac plus 2 1st round draft picks for AD. That is extreme hate for young players. Atleast Rob kept Kuz, and didn't have Zubac to give them, but still gave up picks. Pelicans did them in, when AD was gonna be a free agent, they already stopped the other teams from trading for him. We had all the leverage. Then Rob carried on the tradition of poor asset management and turning over rosters. He become addicted to trades, signing waived players, and free agency, he doesn't know when to stop. He calls this addiction, the mamba mentality.
Pelinka has Lebron and AD and he still manages to build a lotto team. Mitch and Jim didn't have Lebron and AD. Back then, nobody wanted to play for the Lakers except for Moz and Deng. Right now, everybody wants to play with Lebron and AD. The Lakers had choices and they made some terrible ones.
Lebron and AD has played together in 25 of the last 99 games.
Exactly. You don't need both stars to be good. You only need both if you want to win a championship. But the Lakers have been terrible if only one of them was playing. Look at the Clippers, they made it the WCF last season without Kawhi. The Lakers roleplayers are a joke compared to the Clippers. Pelinka is arguably the worst GM for putting together such a disappointing roster. I mean Lebron's been to the NBA Finals 10 times already. You'd think the Lakers would have no problem making the NBA Finals with him on the team. But leave it to Pelinka to screw things up.
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:11 am Post subject:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mitch is still a G to me. Sad that the MozDeng thing derailed his otherwise stellar GMing.
Mitch and Jim got a raw deal. Jim opened the door though with the timer he put on himself. But what would have Maginka done? A hobbling Kobe taking $48 million, and no other super coming because they knew Kobe wasn't Kobe. Then the moment he retired, the Mozdeng deals happened due to the incessant whining by fans and the press that nobody wants our money. At the same time, they seem like good deals because they weren't going to effect the development of the kids. They only became a problem when Maginka took over with the win now Lebron plan. Ultimately, we got a chip out of it, so I'm cool. But if we didn't win in 2020, and the way things are looking now... I would be moping around here too like VenturaLakersfan. LOL!
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:24 am Post subject:
Runway8 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Mitch is still a G to me. Sad that the MozDeng thing derailed his otherwise stellar GMing.
Mitch and Jim got a raw deal. Jim opened the door though with the timer he put on himself. But what would have Maginka done? A hobbling Kobe taking $48 million, and no other super coming because they knew Kobe wasn't Kobe. Then the moment he retired, the Mozdeng deals happened due to the incessant whining by fans and the press that nobody wants our money. At the same time, they seem like good deals because they weren't going to effect the development of the kids. They only became a problem when Maginka took over with the win now Lebron plan. Ultimately, we got a chip out of it, so I'm cool. But if we didn't win in 2020, and the way things are looking now... I would be moping around here too like VenturaLakersfan. LOL!
What was the rationale of the Mozdeng deal? Giving four year deals to washed up players was a good idea in what sense? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:39 am Post subject:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
Mitch had Shaq in his prime, Kobe in his prime ahead of him. He did exceptionally well until Kobe became Lebron's age. Then there were a lot of Westbrook type moves.
Rob has had lottery picks and mortgaged the future to win now. With an old past his athletic prime Lebron. He won a title, but then like Mitch made a big blunder with the Westbrook move.
Lets see what Rob can do to fix this. When Rob took over with Magic around 5 years ago. If you told me you'd get a title and 3 playoff appearances within 5 years, I would have taken it easily. We were in a real bad spot.
Look at the Pelicans, I rather have won a ring and ran with it. But for sure, the Westbrook trade and giving up so many assets along the way to getting a title, that's gonna be major knock on Rob unless he delivers #2.
What about Mitch not surrounding Kobe/Shaq with good role players, trading Shaq for Odom, Butler, Grant, and a pick, and trading Caron for Kwame? And letting Ariza go and using the MLE on Artest. Seems like a mediocre GM who got lucky with the Pau trade. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Mitch had Shaq in his prime, Kobe in his prime ahead of him. He did exceptionally well until Kobe became Lebron's age. Then there were a lot of Westbrook type moves.
Rob has had lottery picks and mortgaged the future to win now. With an old past his athletic prime Lebron. He won a title, but then like Mitch made a big blunder with the Westbrook move.
Lets see what Rob can do to fix this. When Rob took over with Magic around 5 years ago. If you told me you'd get a title and 3 playoff appearances within 5 years, I would have taken it easily. We were in a real bad spot.
Look at the Pelicans, I rather have won a ring and ran with it. But for sure, the Westbrook trade and giving up so many assets along the way to getting a title, that's gonna be major knock on Rob unless he delivers #2.
What about Mitch not surrounding Kobe/Shaq with good role players, trading Shaq for Odom, Butler, Grant, and a pick, and trading Caron for Kwame? And letting Ariza go and using the MLE on Artest. Seems like a mediocre GM who got lucky with the Pau trade.
Mitch had Phil influence too. A lot of the roster stability was Phil. Phil would never allow massive change to his roster unless it made sense to the Triangle. The Triangle was an offense where you needed players who knew the system well. So Phil always contained things and gave Mitch a great sense of what he needed. Mitch was brilliant in getting that for Phil. I think we saw that. Look at the dudes we filled the roster with - a lot of role guys that fit in the Triangle and around a Kobe offense. Had Jim Buss not stepped in we probably would have had Melo, as well or some other elite wing/guard that fit in (Danny Granger). Phil wanted another wing. He wanted Granger drafted even.
The thing is about Mitch he's very good at making trades. There was a stability we had with knowing Kobe could carry the team to the playoffs each year. You just don't have that stability now. It's what I'm trying to tell people. They talk about the Lakers as if Lebron is 25. They signed an aging 34 year old who has missed almost half our games since he's been signed. He didn't even carry the lottery picks team (Ingram/Ball etc) to the playoffs. This isn't the same Bron from CLE/MIA.
Other than trading for Westbrook, I think Rob had done better than Mitch if the situations were the same. There's no way Mitch gives all that up for AD, and that means no title in 2020. So you wasted Lebron's signing as you had a chance to get 1 more ring out of Lebron. The thing with Westbrook, Rob foolishly thought it could squeeze more out of the title window. He made a big mistake. Lets see if he corrects it (although don't see how he can). I think if you give Mitch the pieces and situation Rob had, not only does he not worm his way into Klutch (so no Lebron/AD), I'm not sure we have the 2020 title right now.
It's not really a fair comparison to compare having Kobe Bryant at 21 and Shaq at 26. This is when Mitch took over for Jerry West. You have those two assets, it's ilke having AD at 21 and Lebron at 26. If Rob had those kind of pieces and (bleep) up, and only gave you 1 title in 5 years, ok. But that's not what he had to work with.
Still, it remains to be seen if Rob is any better than just a guy who knows how to get players to sign up by getting into their agent's good side. I used to think he had a good vision, but after the Westbrook trade, I've changed my mind. I think he's simply good at getting big names to sign and making moves. We need a guy who has a vision. Who in the FO has a vision right now? Is it Kurt (Scary)? Rob? Nah. We seem to just go with the flow and get as many stars as we can. And look lets be real. If AD/Bron are healthy, we're talking about all of this different. But I don't see us having any great tactic here other than "We're the Lakers, we're always gonna win titles, stars .... sign here". And for that, having a guy like Rob who sits in with player agents and does all that "collaboration" with them, I guess it makes a ton more sense than Mitch.
It is what it is, I guess we just got to keep hoping that Rob gets the next star in better shape/fit than he did Westbrook.
Magic is the least qualified, Mitch is the most qualified. Rob is the most capable, yet also the most frustrating, and Jim is the most incompetent.
Magic is always unfairly villainized on LG for whatever reason. He wasn't nearly as bad as certain people think. He was able to get Lebron here, which led to LA winning the Championships and us being viable, even to this day.
Jim was the worst, by far. Mitch did some good things and made the least amount of mistakes.
Rob backstabbed Magic, and he's a snake. He also messed up what Magic started. But I will say this, Rob is the best at signing a variety of players, just not the right ones.
But I'd think most of those players Rob signs wouldn't be here if Magic doesn't get Lebron first. So, Magic and Mitch are the best the Lakers had as far as GMs were concerned.
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