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gdballa03 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: Kobe's D |
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Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
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OdomX2 Star Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 3973
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
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shnjb Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2002 Posts: 13320
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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When is the last time a mediocre player did not do well against Kobe because Kobe did not respect him at all?
With that said, the man is tired.
If you're in the NBA and your teammates are mostly division 1 material, then you should be very tired by the 50th game. |
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KobeButler Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Nov 2004 Posts: 10179
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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OdomX2 wrote: | gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
where did he say that? _________________ Pain is temporary, at the end of pain is success... |
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JerryWest_44 Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 25268
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Yes -- Kobe has returned to the vomit roaming defense he played last year -- turning journey men PGs into all NBA guards.
Kobe has very few weaknesses and his biggest one is playing down on defense to lesser guards. |
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gdballa03 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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OdomX2 wrote: | gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
It's hard because IT DOESN'T WORK...
What you're basically saying is that someone as good as Kobe can't play both man and help efficiently??? It's pride in your D, that's all...regardless what Phil says, he's capable of doing one without sacrificing another. |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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OdomX2 wrote: | gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
im sorry but kobe's defense has been absolutely horrible the last month or so...the backcourt's defense is the reason our defense collapses so often, both kobe and smush have been horrible for a lot of stretches recently. they allow penetration which gets fouls on our bigmen which means they play less and the team defense is less effective. its sad because lamar odom has actually been our best defensive player recently and that should not be happening. kobe's defense used to be incredible against small, quick guards. he would get through picks, fight through them, beat his man to the spot and force them to change directions. he used to be such a great defensive player and has regressed badly. now he lets himself get picked off without even a try to get through or go around. he still has his great D in small stretches but its not there anymore the way it used to be. its hard for him because he has to do so much offensively...but then again i always believed that was the biggest difference between him and the other high scoring wing players. smush on the other hand has zero excuse to be continually burned by not only good point guards but mediocre ones as well. u cant really blame him for not being able to stop great ones like nash, kidd, marbury, or parker. but its another thing when he allows carlos arroyo, dixon, delonte west etc to have the paint anytime they want. we can only hope a change is made soon. |
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gdballa03 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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shnjb wrote: | When is the last time a mediocre player did not do well against Kobe because Kobe did not respect him at all?
With that said, the man is tired.
If you're in the NBA and your teammates are mostly division 1 material, then you should be very tired by the 50th game. |
I hear ya, I know he doesn't have any help on the offensive end. But you would think that he would still try to set a tone for everyone on D. What was weird was that when he sat out the start of the 4th, they got stops. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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OdomX2 wrote: | gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
Kobe is not above criticism. His defense tonight, ike the last time they were in Portland, was atrocious. This has nothing to do with roaming. Kobe gives zero resistence to picks. Compare Artest getting a pick and Kobe getting a pick and you'll see the difference. When it's a marquee match-up like Ray Allen, boy Kobe fights through those screens like his life depends on it.
Everybody is to blame tonight, including PJ with his cutesy play at the end of the game where he lets Smush set things up. Remember in Sacramento, when PJ gives the ball to Odom to set things up? Lets not get too fancy PJ, at the end of the games, give Kobe the ball. |
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OdomX2 Star Player
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 3973
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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tenguygrst wrote: | OdomX2 wrote: | gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
im sorry but kobe's defense has been absolutely horrible the last month or so...the backcourt's defense is the reason our defense collapses so often, both kobe and smush have been horrible for a lot of stretches recently. they allow penetration which gets fouls on our bigmen which means they play less and the team defense is less effective. its sad because lamar odom has actually been our best defensive player recently and that should not be happening. kobe's defense used to be incredible against small, quick guards. he would get through picks, fight through them, beat his man to the spot and force them to change directions. he used to be such a great defensive player and has regressed badly. now he lets himself get picked off without even a try to get through or go around. he still has his great D in small stretches but its not there anymore the way it used to be. its hard for him because he has to do so much offensively...but then again i always believed that was the biggest difference between him and the other high scoring wing players. smush on the other hand has zero excuse to be continually burned by not only good point guards but mediocre ones as well. u cant really blame him for not being able to stop great ones like nash, kidd, marbury, or parker. but its another thing when he allows carlos arroyo, dixon, delonte west etc to have the paint anytime they want. we can only hope a change is made soon. |
What crap. Kobe is doing exactly what the coaches want him to to. Are you telling me that Kobe is slacking on defense and Phil is just fine and dandy with it? Kobe just said in an interview that sometimes Phil wants him to lock down a single guy, other times, Phil wants him to roam the court and help out a beaten teammate. Kobe can't stop everyone good grief. By the way, the only player or players to shoot over 50% on Kobe in the previous 6 was Orlando, a team we killed and also a team Kobe roamed. But don't let facts cloud your "Kobe has sucked on D for a month stance" :roll: |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: Kobe's D |
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OdomX2 wrote: | tenguygrst wrote: | OdomX2 wrote: | gdballa03 wrote: | Is it me, or is he not fighting the picks and cheating on D???? I know he gets a few good steals here and there, but he cheats all the time, not counting that last pick Cook didn't jump out on...but Kobe's gotta take some pride in his D if you ask me. How the hell does he let Blake drop 19pts??? His average is about 8ppg!!! |
Another one of these? Kobe has said it 10 times this year. Certain games, Phil asks Kobe to lock down his defender. Other games Phil asks Kobe to roam and defend on the help. A guy averaging 8 points a game is probably a good gamble to be a guy that Kobe sags on. Why is it so hard to grasp this? |
im sorry but kobe's defense has been absolutely horrible the last month or so...the backcourt's defense is the reason our defense collapses so often, both kobe and smush have been horrible for a lot of stretches recently. they allow penetration which gets fouls on our bigmen which means they play less and the team defense is less effective. its sad because lamar odom has actually been our best defensive player recently and that should not be happening. kobe's defense used to be incredible against small, quick guards. he would get through picks, fight through them, beat his man to the spot and force them to change directions. he used to be such a great defensive player and has regressed badly. now he lets himself get picked off without even a try to get through or go around. he still has his great D in small stretches but its not there anymore the way it used to be. its hard for him because he has to do so much offensively...but then again i always believed that was the biggest difference between him and the other high scoring wing players. smush on the other hand has zero excuse to be continually burned by not only good point guards but mediocre ones as well. u cant really blame him for not being able to stop great ones like nash, kidd, marbury, or parker. but its another thing when he allows carlos arroyo, dixon, delonte west etc to have the paint anytime they want. we can only hope a change is made soon. |
What crap. Kobe is doing exactly what the coaches want him to to. Are you telling me that Kobe is slacking on defense and Phil is just fine and dandy with it? Kobe just said in an interview that sometimes Phil wants him to lock down a single guy, other times, Phil wants him to roam the court and help out a beaten teammate. Kobe can't stop everyone good grief. By the way, the only player or players to shoot over 50% on Kobe in the previous 6 was Orlando, a team we killed and also a team Kobe roamed. But don't let facts cloud your "Kobe has sucked on D for a month stance" :roll: |
trust me when i say that kobe is not "playing how the coaches want him to"...its obvious his defense has been bad recently, watch games from 2000-2002 and compare that to what u see now. he gets picked off on every pick, his man breaks him down off the dribble at will, and recently he has been going for broke on steals. if the coaches want him to play this poorly on defense then they have truly lost it. also, does that same theory "the coaches want him to play like this" apply to smush? if so, then these coaches are in the wrong profession. kobe needs to rededicate himself to this end of the court, its what made him kobe. |
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JerryWest_44 Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 25268
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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With or without coaching direction there are some things that go without saying -- play defense on your assigned man.
Kobe was playing Blake like he was radioactive tonite. |
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gdballa03 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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JerryWest_44 wrote: | With or without coaching direction there are some things that go without saying -- play defense on your assigned man.
Kobe was playing Blake like he was radioactive tonite. |
Thank you, another person who understands! |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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gdballa03 wrote: | JerryWest_44 wrote: | With or without coaching direction there are some things that go without saying -- play defense on your assigned man.
Kobe was playing Blake like he was radioactive tonite. |
Thank you, another person who understands! |
what i find disturbing is that it wasnt just tonite, his defense has been on a continual downward slope since his early season blackouts of vince carter and ray allen..not to mention good efforts on michael redd and the first game vs tracy mcgrady. since then it has just been a slow spiral where anybody gets by him, he almost walks himself into the pick, and he is continaully flat footed. he had a couple games where he started to roam around with a lot of energy and pick up those steals but now again the energy is missing from him defensively. we can only hope he is "saving himself for the playoffs" and that there really is something there when it matters most. |
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mike_kb Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 384
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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How many players average over 20ppg while playing elite perimeter defense? What do you think he is, a superman? Why not rag on role players like Cook who went to college for 4 years but appear clueless on how to defend the pick and rolls? |
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JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 43951
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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One man can't play team defense. |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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mike_kb wrote: | How many players average over 20ppg while playing elite perimeter defense? What do you think he is, a superman? Why not rag on role players like Cook who went to college for 4 years but appear clueless on how to defend the pick and rolls? |
well nobody probably is a 20 point per game perimeter player that plays incredible defense...but then again that is what really used to separate kobe from all the other high wing scorers. that was the line that clearly separated kobe from the mcgradys, carters, pierces. its not just that his defense has been average but it has been poor, especially for someone with his incredible iq and athleticism. the backcourt has been the biggest reason for our defensive collapses...i blame smush actually more than kobe, far more actually. but that is not the point of this thread i guess. |
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Drifts Retired Number
Joined: 22 Nov 2004 Posts: 28374
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Kobe's defense is good. Team defense is awful. _________________ "Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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lakersdynasty999 Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1893
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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i think it might be that kobe doesnt fight through screens to avoid getting hurt...maybe he still favors that shoulder since the injury last yr? _________________ Lakers in '08.
WWW.AVERYTICKETS.COM |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | Kobe's defense is good. Team defense is awful. |
oh god, i didnt think it was possible for someone to actually say with a straight face that kobe's defense is "good"...but i guess there is one out there. |
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gdballa03 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Drifts wrote: | Kobe's defense is good. Team defense is awful. |
Kobe's defense is good when he wants it to be (it use to be great, always) and team defense is awful regardless...
If you think Kobe played good D tonight, you aint watching the same game I was, team D is a different story, we know it sucks, always :roll: |
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lakersdynasty999 Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1893
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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why cant the lakers just win?
then we wont be having this talk _________________ Lakers in '08.
WWW.AVERYTICKETS.COM |
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gdballa03 Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jan 2006 Posts: 263
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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lakersdynasty999 wrote: | why cant the lakers just win?
then we wont be having this talk |
Because they have no team or individual defense... |
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lakersdynasty999 Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1893
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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but we have ronny _________________ Lakers in '08.
WWW.AVERYTICKETS.COM |
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JuiceMonkey Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 1169
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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gdballa03 wrote: | lakersdynasty999 wrote: | why cant the lakers just win?
then we wont be having this talk |
Because they have no team or individual defense... |
to be fair, kwame is a pretty good individual man defender...horrible team defender...chris mihm is a bad man defender, solid weakside shotblocker. but he gets fouls because of penetration from opposing backcourts. on paper, this team's defense should be pretty solid but it hasnt been there consistenly at all. |
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