Passive Kobe is not working
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AussieLakerFan
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject:

Kobe just has to start attacking again. ferociously.

We have the best offensive weapon in the world. We need to take advantage of that.

Kobe has to really just take over from the start and then decide what to do after the defence reacts to that.

Our team doesn't have enough fire power to get leads, have to wait for the D to react to what Kobe is doing and THEN take advantage of doubles for open looks for the others...
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
PiPisKobesByatch wrote:
kobe scoring has no effect on defense?

offense is not the problem?

when guys like smush, cook, lamar, sasha are shooting long jumpshots, it leads to long rebounds, which then leads to fast breaks and easy points in transtion.

when kwame bricks a layup, the bigman can rebound it and throw it down court quickly before the defense can set up, and another fastbreak opportunity.

everytime the lakers don't force the opponent to take the ball out of bounds by making a shot or getting fouled, it pretty much leads to a fast break. i think the word is out about the lakers' lack of transition d (not that their halfcourt d is any better).

so basically, when guys are shooting poorly (as they did against the blazers) a lot of long rebounds are going the other teams way.. which is allowing them to get easy points.

so bad offense leads to bad defense.. so yes, the two are intertwined if you think about it.

also, when you guys morons like lamar and smush handling the ball, they are prone to get stupid turnovers.. which leads to more easy buckets.

when kobe is in his scoring binge.. teams are scrambling trying to stop him.. he intimidates other teams with his presence.. his shot is either going in or he is getting fouled. no chance for the other team to fast break on that when kobe is in his zone.

that is why i believe that kobe being aggressive and taking the ball out of the roleplayers' hands is more effective at stopping the fastbreak and not putting their transition d under so much duress all the time.

kobe needs to score the ball.

if he is aggressive, and he finds his offense early.. the lakers build a lead in the first half and can probably sustain it to close out the game. but because he was dicking around trying to get people involved, the blazers put up too many points and it was too hard to come back on the road.


Not one other Laker shot below 50% so how does this make sense?
Kobe went 10-27

The Lakers need another player to shoot a few more shots. Kobe did the right thing. The comeback again took place while Kobe was on the bench.

The floor has to be spread for the most offensive potential to be realized.
That can only happen when defenses are forced to be concerned about at least one other player.

It's not about the offense!!!

The defense sucks!!!!!


stop skewing facts.

kobe went 10/25 not 10/27.

not one laker shot below 50% besides kobe?

odom - 5/11
cook - 4/9
kwame - 0/1
sasha - 0/1

the lakers shot 45.7% while the blazers shot 46.9%

it's not like the lakers were giving up 60% shooting here..
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:24 pm    Post subject:

Kobe is not the problem...I can name a lot of guys (including the coach & management) who does nothing but rip our hearts out...they are the guilty ones. Kobe goes out and does his job the best he could. Kobe is not super human. We have choke artists all over the team: guys who can't shoot, can't catch and can't hit FTs. Guys who can't play and are overpaid.

We have a lot of problems, Kobe is not one of them.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject:

OdomX2 wrote:
Totally agree. Phil has neutered Kobe again.


My exact thoughts........I also agree with "Kobebutler"........

I have noticed now for a few games that Kobe does no shooting in the first 6 minutes of the 1st period......1 shot or 0.......Tonite he took his first shot with about 1:30 left in the first......The greatest natural scoring machine in the history of the game IMO.......WHY!?

Why is his incredible talent being watered down?

Get others involved and going?Sure,but just how long will it take for this team to do this on a consistant basis.......Is there some magical clock that will suddenly go off and the other guys will finally play better and more consistant.....we are past the 2/3rd mark of the season.........

Kobe has to play the game from minute 1 to minute 48........period......!

Kobe has to be in strike mode,aggressive at all times.......Do not give just what every opponent wants.......Him to give up the ball,get it out of his hands......

Kobe is a very smart player......he knows just when to make them pay for the triples and traps....He will pass if these guys cut and move,make themselves available......

He should pass,he should play the all around game,but first and foremost he should strike and strike early and hard......Break the opponents back .....as he can do better than anyone else.......

Why allow your team into holes......than when trailing try and dig out of them.....Tonite the lakers gave this team life......They allowed the Blazers to feel good about themselves,and confident......Instead of kicking them hard right at the get go..............Leaving them in the dust......

Since Kobes 81...PJAX messed up the machine.....the team was at it's best with Kobe being the scoring machine he is......With Kobe going into passive mode half the time this team is now playing under 500 ball since the 81 point game.....When he scored 44+ a game for that 15 games or so they were a top 10 team.......

Sure Kobe can carry us only so far,but at least it will be for a fun little ride,not this way..........we are headed to the cellar.......

I say forget the shot count......it can be 25 shots,35 shots,whatever it takes......just attack and pick his spots of when to make them pay for doubles etc,etc......When he thinks strike mode first........his shooting % is much better.......I am not saying shoot everytime and every which way possible,or force shots.......but just be in attack mode from the start.......

When the day comes that we get that "Dream 07' FA"...... and Bynum grows up he can change up his game somewhat.......But for now,as is................Kobe should be a full on striker........

He did nothing in the first tonite.....they gained momentum and confidence.......Then in the fourth trailing by 14 PJAX pulls him,after scoring 19 in the 3rd......OK fine,but for 2 to 3 minutes PJAX......We actually cut the lead to 7 by the 9 minute mark of the 4th.......Minor miracle.......Then Kobe is left out,,,,,he should have been brought back in to join 4 of the guys that helped us come back.......Why wait longer.....?

Then with 7 minutes to go and now down by 10 he comes back.....3 timeouts later and 5 minutes of the game.......about 16 minutes of real time.......Here comes Kobe...all frozen and out of any groove......He scores only 4 the rest of the way.......We lose......

I alway's thought that there was no Kobe stopper........I was wrong......There is one......His name is PJAX.......Great coach,I like him,but there seems to be something more here than meets the eye.....A keeping him down somewhat mentality perhaps......If KObe does less and the lakers win......does PJAX get more credit.........The system the coach........Or when KObe goes off,does this mean it's all Kobe and coaching has little to do with it?

Just be in strike mode from minute 1 Kobe...play within the system sure......But enough of the no shot intentionally gameplan........These are pros you are playing with.......they have to figure things out for themselves........and if not ship them out.....


Last edited by Tarzan008 on Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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PushingtheLimit
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject:

Damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject:

PushingtheLimit wrote:
Damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

Heh yeah...at this point I just hope Kobe gets that scoring title.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:21 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Lamar Odom even reasoned that Kobe Bryant should shoot the ball 40 or 50 times a game because nobody else is doing his job.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject:

basketball is a team game. if kobe has 50, the rest of the team has 6, 7, 10, 2. we arent going to win.

our last great stretch of ball(only great stretch of ball really) was that 6-1 roadtrip we had.(or was it 5-2? cant remember) during that roadtrip, we shared the ball. kobe got his pts, but other players stepped up too. i know this team sucks, but we need to try to play a team game. i think that is our best chance at winning.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:35 am    Post subject:

if Kobe averages 81 points a game our team will continue to be mediocre...passive Kobe involves team and improves "team chemistry"...nuff said
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject:

If Kobe scores 81 per game....we win 95+% of them.....

Kobe does not need to score 81 per game....but.......

Kobe must be in strike mode,and Kobe must know when to make teams pay for triples and traps,a fine balancing act......

But he is a scoring machine,let him be just that first and foremost....And from the start to finish......pick his spots sure.....but always think score first.......

Besides this.....How about some real team "D".....The main problem...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject:

PiPisKobesByatch wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:
PiPisKobesByatch wrote:
kobe scoring has no effect on defense?

offense is not the problem?

when guys like smush, cook, lamar, sasha are shooting long jumpshots, it leads to long rebounds, which then leads to fast breaks and easy points in transtion.

when kwame bricks a layup, the bigman can rebound it and throw it down court quickly before the defense can set up, and another fastbreak opportunity.

everytime the lakers don't force the opponent to take the ball out of bounds by making a shot or getting fouled, it pretty much leads to a fast break. i think the word is out about the lakers' lack of transition d (not that their halfcourt d is any better).

so basically, when guys are shooting poorly (as they did against the blazers) a lot of long rebounds are going the other teams way.. which is allowing them to get easy points.

so bad offense leads to bad defense.. so yes, the two are intertwined if you think about it.

also, when you guys morons like lamar and smush handling the ball, they are prone to get stupid turnovers.. which leads to more easy buckets.

when kobe is in his scoring binge.. teams are scrambling trying to stop him.. he intimidates other teams with his presence.. his shot is either going in or he is getting fouled. no chance for the other team to fast break on that when kobe is in his zone.

that is why i believe that kobe being aggressive and taking the ball out of the roleplayers' hands is more effective at stopping the fastbreak and not putting their transition d under so much duress all the time.

kobe needs to score the ball.

if he is aggressive, and he finds his offense early.. the lakers build a lead in the first half and can probably sustain it to close out the game. but because he was dicking around trying to get people involved, the blazers put up too many points and it was too hard to come back on the road.


Not one other Laker shot below 50% so how does this make sense?
Kobe went 10-27

The Lakers need another player to shoot a few more shots. Kobe did the right thing. The comeback again took place while Kobe was on the bench.

The floor has to be spread for the most offensive potential to be realized.
That can only happen when defenses are forced to be concerned about at least one other player.

It's not about the offense!!!

The defense sucks!!!!!


stop skewing facts.

kobe went 10/25 not 10/27.

not one laker shot below 50% besides kobe?

odom - 5/11
cook - 4/9
kwame - 0/1
sasha - 0/1

the lakers shot 45.7% while the blazers shot 46.9%

it's not like the lakers were giving up 60% shooting here..




http://www.nba.com/games/20060301/LALPOR/boxscore.html?nav=scoreboardhome

Why would I make that up?

Ok, fine Sasha and, Kwame who took one shot each and missed...

This team cannot make stops in critical situations and, unless Kobe is going to score 81 on a regular basis, I don't care how much he doesn't pass, this team is going to get their collective asses kicked, and that is the bottom line...
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Last edited by THE_SHOES on Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:43 am    Post subject:

shoes, but at the same time. kobe having to carry the load on offense, makes him more tired. thus, his defense suffers. i know it's "team defense" but phil probably tells kobe to "roam" on D to save his energy. i wish our team was talented on offense(aka, not needing kobe to set them up for every score). then kobe could possibly score 20 on 8-12 shooting, dish out 9 assists, and lock down his man on defense. then our defense would atleast improve a little bit.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:49 am    Post subject:

reign, this is why yesterdays game against the Magic was a blueprint of what this team should strive for... They can defend better than that! This was again the ugly terror of the Lakers on the "back end of a back to back!" No defensive juice whatsoever! 93 points should be enough to beat the Blazers!!!

They actually did fair, not good, but just fair offensively with the exception of the last few minutes breakdown. They came within 3 with plenty of time to win and, I'll be damned if they refuse to make one stop! They just couldn't find a way to communicate on defense to make the one stop that I just kept screaming at the broadcast for. They just wouldn't do it!

Why, why, why!!! Just one stop Lakers!!!!
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Last edited by THE_SHOES on Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:53 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:50 am    Post subject:

PushingtheLimit wrote:
Damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.


Well, yes, but this time, if he doesn't, it's the TEAM that is damned, not him...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject:

Kobe is tired, and it's excpected. All the minutes he plays he's gonna get tired plus add the fact that he plays very intense out there, he's gonna get fatigued. It shows in his play lately, he's basically settling on long jump shots, and he's not finishing on defense meaning he's getting good initial contact with the player he's guarding but as soon as the player gets a half a step, Kobe kind of bails out and doesn't really pursue it. Granted I know he expects one of his teammates to help him out, but that's another issue about there team defense.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:02 am    Post subject:

lakers2626, the thing is had the Lakers played the Blazers two days ago instead of the Magic,Portland would have recieved an ass whoopin...
The Lakers have won both games of a "back to back" but once this year. The other times they always won the first game of the two day affair and, were overcome the second day no matter who it was that they played.
I can't imagine why the second youngest team in the league gets tired in these situations!

The one thing that can be deducted from such discomfort is the fact that with the exception of the Spurs and, possibly Phoenix in the west I bet nobody can actually beat the Lakers in a 7 games series.

This is the only hope that I cling too!

OH! By the time the playoffs start the Lakers will have made every mistake possible so, they should be ready right?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject:

We can't seem to win close games so I'd rather build an early lead with Kobe going crazy...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:12 am    Post subject:

How many times have we seen the Lakers get snatched from behind after haveing built 20pt leads?

The defensive strategies have to change, and now!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
lakers2626, the thing is had the Lakers played the Blazers two days ago instead of the Magic,Portland would have recieved an ass whoopin...
The Lakers have won both games of a "back to back" but once this year. The other times they always won the first game of the two day affair and, were overcome the second day no matter who it was that they played.
I can't imagine why the second youngest team in the league gets tired in these situations!

The one thing that can be deducted from such discomfort is the fact that with the exception of the Spurs and, possibly Phoenix in the west I bet nobody can actually beat the Lakers in a 7 games series.

This is the only hope that I cling too!

OH! By the time the playoffs start the Lakers will have made every mistake possible so, they should be ready right?



Agree we I don't think we could win a serious from the Spurs or the Suns.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:20 am    Post subject:

We got 24 games left. Clearly, this team has won more games with Kobe in strike mode. And that has to be the priority now. We need to get in the playoffs. We got 3 teams nipping at our heels right now, and we're in for a tough stretch.

Phil has used this stretch since the start of Feb to incorporate more team play against the bad teams. Guess what? It backfired. We simply have not won enough games against the bad teams with Kobe playing facilitator. Now, we have to do whatever is necessary to stay in the POs and our best shot is Kobe going back into strike mode.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:41 am    Post subject:

Quote:
How many times have we seen the Lakers get snatched from behind after haveing built 20pt leads?


Not as much as we've seen close "team ball" games get away in the 3rd quarter...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:42 am    Post subject:

OdomX2 wrote:
Totally agree. Phil has neutered Kobe again. The season is lost, we aren't making the playoffs. Let's see Kobe do something special. Let's see Kobe win a couple of games on his own, instead of watching the NDBL "Team" lose. Kobe needs to shoot wherever and whenever he is even remotely open. PERIOD!


I couldn't agree with this more. I'll be teh first to admit, the selfish Kobe drives me nuts sometimes. When he turns away and launches a fadeaway when he's being triple teamed and others are wide open, it makes me sick. However, we need him to be aggressive offensively. Kobe averaged 40 points in January and we are on fire. Kobe turns passive and we are stinking it up.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:43 am    Post subject:

Kobe cannot be aggressive Kobe all year - he will burn out.

Phil knows this.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:48 am    Post subject:

It's quite simple. 'Passive Kobe' only works once in a while because his teammates only play well once in a while.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:51 am    Post subject:

RJBaca wrote:
Kobe cannot be aggressive Kobe all year - he will burn out.

Phil knows this.


24 games. That's all we got. Theoretically, I agree with you and Phil. But at what point do you go for broke?? Do we wait until we fall under .500?? Do we wait until one of 3 teams on our butts catches us??

6 of the 24 games are against teams we haven't beaten since the Shaq trade--3 against SA, 2 against Phx, and 1 against Det. Most would say those are automatic losses. Plus we still have Sac 2 more times, Houston (they're chasing us). We have to beat the teams like Portland and Boston, and we haven't been doing it. Saving Kobe from burnout is one thing, but the season is winding down very quickly.
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