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bounty
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
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 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | Do you guys really believe they lost that game because of offensive production.
Outrunning teams to the 4th quarter buzzer will not work in the long run. The Lakers are going to have to commit themselves to defending a lot more than they have. LO can average 25pts a game but, if this defense continues to allow low scoring teams like the Blazers overwhelm then it is over...
The Spurs have a record that dwarfs the Lakers and there highest ppg man Tony Parker scores 19.3 a game followed by Tim Duncan at 19.1
Mano come in at 15...
So, you can ask more of Odom since he is the man with the "hate light" shining on him everyday, but then ask yourself how tough this team would be scoring as many points as they do if they actually made it difficult for other teams to score. The Lakers whether Odom just says (bleep) it and, starts going for broke for the scoring or continues to look for his teammates is not going to matter either way if all the Lakers are doing is trying to beat other teams to the 4th quarter buzzer by trying to outlast them...
The Lakers could have won last night had they just muscled up and made maybe just 2 stops! They just couldn't do it. Just couldn't do it...
I see that as more of an issue than the tired crying of how many points Lamar Odom put up. You guys say that even when the Lakers put up a 100+ yet you just can't imagine how much easier it would be if they could just slow down another teams offense a little... We have cheese fellas! Swiss to be exact! |
No we lost the game b/c our team cant put 48min together. However we know about everyone, cant LO give us 21pts once when we need it? Can he give Kobe that little extra, especially when we are notoriously weak on back to backs? he is a captain  right? Its about getting the job done. Kobe had 35 and solid RBs and asst. Cant LO just put us over the hump once? the 2nd fiddle is supposed to get those little xtras when needed. But as I said b4 he is no diferent than
smush
sasha
walton
green
kwame.
hes plays like just another guy |
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THE_SHOES
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever...
You can rank Odom wherever you please. I could care less...
My growing concern for this team is there defensive effort becoming smaller, and smaller, and that is a path to doom... I'm hoping the Lakers were just tired from the night before, but if they put on that same defensive exhibition that they did against Portland against Golden State they are going down again...
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un1bomber
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| i guess NO ONE cares that lamar odom has no use of his right hand when hes playing ball |
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LAL25
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| un1bomber wrote: | | i guess NO ONE cares that lamar odom has no use of his right hand when hes playing ball |
MOST right-handed players in the NBA can't use their left hand to finish.
Oh oops, am I getting in the way of something? |
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un1bomber
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LAL25 wrote: | | un1bomber wrote: | | i guess NO ONE cares that lamar odom has no use of his right hand when hes playing ball |
MOST right-handed players in the NBA can't use their left hand to finish.
Oh oops, am I getting in the way of something? |
you are right, MOST players in the nba can't use their off hand to finish, but we are talking about a player of lamar's calibre. We expect him to facilitate and do some playmaking, the first thing he could do is learn to use his off hand. Jeez... all this crap talk about how he could be our PG, if he can use his other damn hand he will be two times the player he is right now |
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un1bomber
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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KA_2
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Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| THE_SHOES wrote: | | Absolutely! Odom has been in this role so long a lot of people actually think he has no offensive game! Man I wish he could be unleashed. |
Easily the saddest post of the week.
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freshprince
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| i like kobe as initiator now we need a great 2nd option..damn we should have gotten JO or KG. i hate seeing kob being wasted in his prime. love the role players but we need two stars..period...i was not for this but now i am!!! kob is doing all he can. he scores at will when needed. tries ot get his teammates involved and they do not step up! |
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kells1220
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| we need shooters. oh yeah they should play a little defense while their at it. |
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NY_LakerFan
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| un1bomber wrote: | | maybe what lamar needs to do is learn how to use his right hand |
| bounty wrote: |
Kobes asst. have gone up. LO barely brings the ball up anymore. Again PJ is learning what some/Tex have known. LO cant make decisions. His handles are good, but ONLY for a guy 6'10. |
| CrimsonLaker wrote: | | Someone tell Lamar to come out gunning early. The first three possessions of every game Lamar should drive to the basket. |
| un1bomber wrote: | | i guess NO ONE cares that lamar odom has no use of his right hand when hes playing ball |
I REALLY wish you haters would chat ahead of time and at least get your BS straight and consistent before you post. Unibomber takes the award this topic for the absolutely DUMBEST criticism possible.
So let's see ... Odom can't dribble with his right and he has handles that are good "ONLY for a guy 6'10" but the solution for the Lakers is to have this bad handled, lefty drive to the basket more often.
Jesus guys ... at least TRY and be consistent. You all are so anxious to make up crap that to throw about Odom that you all end up contradicting each other. Most of the time your criticisms are so lame that it appears you have never even SEEN a Laker game.
Uniboy ... do you actually WATCH the Lakers play or are you just another "bandwagon hater"??? Odom uses his off hand more effectively than the majority of NBA players. Does he use it constantly? Of course not! Haven't YOU ever played the game??? If he used his right on every possession, he would lose any chance he had of catching his defender off guard. I could dribble and shoot with either hand in college but was much more effective as a righty. I only used my left as a change of pace to keep my opponent honest. Odom does exactly the same thing. Since I heard this ridiculous criticism first raised, I started paying close attention to Odom's ballhandling. He uses his right to initiate at least 3-6 drives per game. In each and every case, he catches the defender leaning and cheating to defend his left.
BountyBoy ... once again you have chosen a totally lame line of reasonig to try and prove your hate is justified. Kobe's assists go up so therefore Odom must "barely brings the ball up anymore." What game(s) were YOU watching??? Kobe's assists ahev gone up while his scoring has dropped dramtically. In January he averaged 43.4 ppg/4.1 apg. In February he averaged 31.5/5.9. While Kobe has made this swtich in his game, Odom has averaged 5.2 apg compared to his season's average of 5.3. Odom's assist production has remained consistent. Kobe rasied his while getting others ... particularly Cook ... involved offensively. This is not an indictment of Odom .,.. it is proof that Kobe is a team player. For the love of all that is basketball STOP trying to twist stats to fit your unreasonable hatred.
And for the UMPTEENTH time:
Odom #38 in salary in the entire NBA
Odom #62 in scoring
Odom #25 in assists
Odom #18 in rebounds
He is not paid "superstar" money, he is paid commiserate with his abilities. The Lakers need to revisit team defense ... not listen to a bunch of whinners and cryers. |
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NY_LakerFan
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Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Bump ... so we can continue to see bounty's lame logic. |
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THE_SHOES
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Location: Taiwan
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| KA_2 wrote: | | THE_SHOES wrote: | | Absolutely! Odom has been in this role so long a lot of people actually think he has no offensive game! Man I wish he could be unleashed. |
Easily the saddest post of the week. |
See JD, this is one of the cartoons on the site that insist on startin (bleep)...
KA your whole existence is a sad one... For everybody...
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osj
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| CrimsonLaker wrote: | | Someone tell Lamar to come out gunning early. The first three possessions of every game Lamar should drive to the basket. |
yeah, and at least two drives will result in an offensive foul being called, and then he'll go to the bench... |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Another And1 classic.
Incase you forgot this, Lamar Odom's job on the team isn't to score first. His primary job is to assist the offense. Then it's to rebound the ball. After that it's to score.
What the Lakers need is to play better team defense. Offense comes and goes. But with these guys being young, they only want to play defense if their offense is in rhythm too. That is why they keep losing games to teams the shouldn't. Their defensive effort is just not consistent at all. |
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Savory Griddles
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Now That It Appears As Though Lamar Has Been Stripped Of His Facilitator Duties... |
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| bounty wrote: | | lakez34 wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | is it fair to expect more scoring out of him?
I mean, wasn't the reason behind his lower scoring production was that he was "torn" between either dropping 20+ points or dishing out 10 assists?
He should now be free to dominate the likes of Darius Miles and Travis Outlaw in the low post, right? |
When did he get stripped of facilitator duties? I thought he's still taking that role. |
Kobes asst. have gone up. LO barely brings the ball up anymore. Again PJ is learning what some/Tex have known. LO cant make decisions. His handles are good, but ONLY for a guy 6'10. They need more scoring out of him yet that only appears to net them an xtra bucket or 2. He is a one trick pony. He has become an afterthought oit there only coming up big when he wants. he blends in with the other scrubs. |
EXACTLY!!! Everybody falls in love with the fact that he can dribble the ball so well for a guy his height. Just because a guy can dribble, doesn't mean he knows what to do with it. Just because a guy makes good looking passes doesn't mean he makes the right ones. Odom needs to go to Seattle for R. Lewis. We make a trade for Boozer and sign Marcus Banks with the MLE. That's a well constructed team that could contend for a championship IMO. You'd have the best player, the best coach, a lockdown pg and two offensive options that perfectly fit Kobe's game and the triangle in Lewis and Boozer. |
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Now That It Appears As Though Lamar Has Been Stripped Of His Facilitator Duties... |
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| Savory Griddles wrote: | | bounty wrote: | | lakez34 wrote: | | And 1 wrote: | is it fair to expect more scoring out of him?
I mean, wasn't the reason behind his lower scoring production was that he was "torn" between either dropping 20+ points or dishing out 10 assists?
He should now be free to dominate the likes of Darius Miles and Travis Outlaw in the low post, right? |
When did he get stripped of facilitator duties? I thought he's still taking that role. |
Kobes asst. have gone up. LO barely brings the ball up anymore. Again PJ is learning what some/Tex have known. LO cant make decisions. His handles are good, but ONLY for a guy 6'10. They need more scoring out of him yet that only appears to net them an xtra bucket or 2. He is a one trick pony. He has become an afterthought oit there only coming up big when he wants. he blends in with the other scrubs. |
EXACTLY!!! Everybody falls in love with the fact that he can dribble the ball so well for a guy his height. Just because a guy can dribble, doesn't mean he knows what to do with it. Just because a guy makes good looking passes doesn't mean he makes the right ones. Odom needs to go to Seattle for R. Lewis. We make a trade for Boozer and sign Marcus Banks with the MLE. That's a well constructed team that could contend for a championship IMO. You'd have the best player, the best coach, a lockdown pg and two offensive options that perfectly fit Kobe's game and the triangle in Lewis and Boozer. |
They will make statues after you, if you keep this up. That team you talk of would win rings.
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And 1
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Another And1 classic.
Incase you forgot this, Lamar Odom's job on the team isn't to score first. His primary job is to assist the offense. Then it's to rebound the ball. After that it's to score. |
Well, that may have been his job in Miami, but for this Laker team, Lamar was counted upon to be the second scoring option to Kobe Bryant. Someone to force the defense to think twice about doubling Bryant because they'll get burned. Someone to step the F up when Kobe struggles.
Odom has been a complete and utter failure in this regard.
As for his "primary job" to assist the offense...
How has that gone so far? He has floundered to the point where most of his responsibilities in that regard have been stripped of him and given to Kobe - who needs more on his plate, right?
| Quote: | | What the Lakers need is to play better team defense. Offense comes and goes. But with these guys being young, they only want to play defense if their offense is in rhythm too. That is why they keep losing games to teams the shouldn't. Their defensive effort is just not consistent at all. |
You'll get no argument from me on this.
What I will say, though, is that our problems on defense WILL NOT be solved this season. We simply do not have the right pieces. This much was noted by myself (and a couple of others) during the pre-season. You remember that don't you?
What the Lakers need to do is focus on winning games by any means necessary. if the defense simply isn't there, make sure that you're competent in other areas like your offense and FT's. If that means that Kobe (in lieu of help of his teammates) has to go for 50 every night - so be it. If that means that Lamar should operate solely in the post and be benched for passing the ball out of the paint when he's being guarded by a smaller man - so be it.
Do whatever you can. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Well, that may have been his job in Miami, but for this Laker team, Lamar was counted upon to be the second scoring option to Kobe Bryant. Someone to force the defense to think twice about doubling Bryant because they'll get burned. Someone to step the F up when Kobe struggles.
Odom has been a complete and utter failure in this regard.
As for his "primary job" to assist the offense...
How has that gone so far? He has floundered to the point where most of his responsibilities in that regard have been stripped of him and given to Kobe - who needs more on his plate, right |
In Miami they had balance.
Dwayne Wade
Caron Butler
Eddie Jones
Three other guys that could score consistently. Here we don't have that. So yes, Odom's lack of aggression is exposed much more.
But does that mean he should be blamed for a roster thats in the "re-build" phase?
Anyway, I am tired of saying this. LO is not a very smart guy by any means but his assists are higher than any other player because he will always look to set up a teammate if open. That's a great thing to have when you actually have some consistent scorers (Which is why the Lakers were a .500 team even without Kobe last season) but with this current team you have a point.
Not arguing that we wouldn't be better if he scored 5-6 points more on top of the current 14/10/5 - But I do think that's asking him to do something he isn't comfortable doing (unless you go to him more than any other player on the court - meaning increasing his touches)
This summer the Lakers must make a decision. Either build around Kobe and Lamar - get them some actual consistent proven players at PF+PG - or go after that superstar no longer how much it will cost (time and wins) |
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un1bomber
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Uniboy ... do you actually WATCH the Lakers play or are you just another "bandwagon hater"??? Odom uses his off hand more effectively than the majority of NBA players. Does he use it constantly? Of course not! Haven't YOU ever played the game??? If he used his right on every possession, he would lose any chance he had of catching his defender off guard. I could dribble and shoot with either hand in college but was much more effective as a righty. I only used my left as a change of pace to keep my opponent honest. Odom does exactly the same thing. Since I heard this ridiculous criticism first raised, I started paying close attention to Odom's ballhandling. He uses his right to initiate at least 3-6 drives per game. In each and every case, he catches the defender leaning and cheating to defend his left.
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you are honestly a true dumbass.. you are saying you only "used my left as a change of pace to keep my opponent honest" and lamar does the same thing. you play basketball for fun... lamar gets paid 12 mill a year to play.. so you are pathetic if you are comparing odom's basketball skill to your own. Secondly i brought it up because of all the people in here that wanted lamar to play PG... HOW CAN HE PLAY PG IF HE ONLY USES HIS RIGHT AS A DECOY...if lamar goes right he usually ends up going left again or pulling up for a jumper |
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bounty
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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whats LO's to/asst. ratio since Jan?
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purplehaze
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| thumpinghead wrote: | | LO is overrated |
Amen!!! |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
In Miami they had balance.
Dwayne Wade
Caron Butler
Eddie Jones
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No they didn't. Odom, WAde, Butler, Jones were duplicate talents at a high level. The way Coach Van Gundy worked around that was to utilize an isolation offense at the top of the circle with Odom and Wade. Each of those guys took turns breaking their man down with max spacing or taking 3 pointers in the playoffs.
Hardly balanced. Very talented.
Easy to get away with in the East.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
In Miami they had balance.
Dwayne Wade
Caron Butler
Eddie Jones
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No they didn't. Odom, WAde, Butler, Jones were duplicate talents at a high level. The way Coach Van Gundy worked around that was to utilize an isolation offense at the top of the circle with Odom and Wade. Each of those guys took turns breaking their man down with max spacing or taking 3 pointers in the playoffs.
Hardly balanced. Very talented.
Easy to get away with in the East. |
Well I guess you would have to determine by what you mean balance. If you mean in terms of how they were scoring - no the balance wasn't there.
No real bigman scorer. That's the biggest missing piece from that team. But in terms of overall scoring - it was divided up much better. That's what I meant. They had 3 guys that could be the number 1 option (Jones, Wade, Odom) and atleast 4 good to very good scoring options.
Stan is a very good X's and O's guy. He knows how to maxamize particular player strengths. Phil relies on the Triangle to do that for the entire team. The good thing about the Triangle is that even if you don't have a bigman scorer in the post - you can use different players and have good spacing to get a balanced scoring attack from inside, mid-range and the perimeter. |
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Fan0Bynum17
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| i think odom's assists are overrated. |
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THE_SHOES
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Sure what do we need with assist? Get rid of those rebounds to. In fact lets just have everybody just shoot when they get the ball whenever they get it no matter where they are. Why run an offense?
SYSTEM? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING SYSTEM!
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