|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
|
 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: We need 2 superstars and that's it... |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Showtime_Returns wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | And 1 wrote: |
But here's the key: Because of LO's low trade value in the league, we'll need to overpay - but it would be worth it.
|
Of course, you are just making up, and passing for fact, that Odom's trade value is low around the league. The truth is, many GMs want Odom. |
True, but know GM in their right mind would give up KG or T-Mac level player for him. |
I couldn't argue with that. But a package including Odom might work. |
Really?
Please feel free to offer up a proposal where Minny would give up KG to the Lakers.
Then do the same for Houston involving T-Mac.
In either scenario, I'm betting that you'll stop yourself and think Why in the world would they (Houston/Minny) do such a thing? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
LakerLegend
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2001
Posts: 1538
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sage_10 wrote: | | KG that's it. Do it Mitch!!! |
 Yeah Mitch, see if they will take Slava and give us KG, money, and several picks.
_________________
Defense is my business, and business is good! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sage_10 wrote: | | KG that's it. Do it Mitch!!! |
Whenever someone says Do it mitch!, that a 100% sign its not happening. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
2 superstars will get you into the 2nd round of the playoffs but to go the further 2 rounds you need the role players.
The Lakers have to make a decision this summer and stick with it. If the goal is to get that 2nd superstar - no matter what it takes, get it done. By that I mean deal everyone not named Kobe or wait out until 2007 and shoot for them then.
On the other hand, if they feel they can win with filling out the missing pieces on the roster right now (starting PF+PG) then they should make sure above all else by the end of the summer those are filled.
My guess is that the Buss' want the 1st scenario and that Phil/Mitch want the 2nd one.
2nd one is also more realistic but would involve Buss paying a lot of money for non-superstars. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's so frustrating with this team, because on one hand they're mediocre, clueless, and uninspired, and they blow so many leads and lose so many close games.
On the other hand, for a long time I've said all we need is that legit 2nd scorer and a few more role players.
Some of our current role players are showing promise. Cook, Mihm, Turiaf, Parker, George (sometimes), even Sasha look like they could be role players on a future contending team. But even as they develop and get better, this team simply needs a serious talent infusion, starting on offense.
I think we need a frontcourt player who gets 17-20 pts/game and also gives us some defense and especially rebounding. After that we just need a couple more role players. A veteran PG for the triangle who can defend and hit 3s, one or two more shot-up shooters, and a little more depth up front. But that 2nd scorer alone would make a huge difference.
We don't necessarily need a superstar like KG, but someone like Lewis or Boozer (at full strength) would fit the bill. And as wolfpac said, the role players will make the difference between a good team and a great team, as they did for our Threepeat teams.
_________________
Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Two is not enough to make a team. Shaq used to whine about not having a good enough supporting cast.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodapoppenski
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 7364
Location: Washington, DC
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gee. two superstars?
Like, seriously.
Two?
How many teams in the league need "two superstars" and "thats it?" as
you, so eloquently, put it?
Good stuff man. :roll: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kups
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1716
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
I still think the team missed a big chance of upgrading the talent on this roster by failing to find a way to acquire Artest. I know it's over & done with, there's no way Sacto is gonna deal him to us. I'll just have to get over it. 
I don't think that signing waived players at this time would greatly benefit this team in the short & long-term, but we could always try & see if it would help us.
We could always swing for the fences & look for blockbuster deals, but I could think of 2 deals that we could make this summer that imo would be steps in the right direction: 1. Deal for Nene, maybe a S&T could be done with Denver involving Nene / Dermarr Johnson for LO.
I've read a # of times from a # of posters on this board that they'll only trade LO for a big man, well there's your big man who could be our lockdown defender in the post, & on top of that you get a long, athletic swingman whose defense is underrated. This is not meant to knock on LO, but if you were the Nugs gm, would you consider another deal for Nene given our present roster (Kobe & Bynum being untouchables)?
2. Deal Mihm + filler (preferably Walton or Sasha) for Chicago's Duhon & Songaila. It's usually a premise that you don't trade big for small, but with Duhon we get a starting quality 2-way PG who can hit the outside shot & is still young. With Songaila we get a PF who's a bit small for his position but who makes up for it with his hustle & overall bball IQ. Most impt., he will hit those mid-range j's, an essential ability for a PF to thrive in the tri.
Why for Chicago? They're in dire need of a big man & Mihm is more than a serviceable big man who is young & whose contract is cheap.
And oh yeah, sign DG for the vet's minimum & we're halfway there. Having stocked the majority of the starting lineup with 2-way players, we'll only be making minor tweaks from thereon & waiting for the youngins' progress, esp Andrew's. Sorry for the lengthy post.
_________________
#2 Lonzo
#28 Derrick White, Jordan Bell, Deonte Burton |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Two years of lamar odom is enough, and i think his time is up in L.A. TNT broadcast crew actually made a valid point, it was kenny smith, he said u always here about guys shooting too much, and you being the coach can controll that if u want..but hearing about a guy not shooting enough? SAy that a few times and u never hear it, how do u make a guy shoot more? And thats your answer u cant ton that up, like maybe u could get a guy too shot less. Lamar isnt a fit for this team, we messed up, caron was the better fit, this is a part of rebuilding u , usually dont get it all right, so im hopefull well fix it this off season.
Buss calling the T wolves to ask about K.G basically gave us , his current view of odom, he will be shipped for the right deal contrary too their view a year ago this time. Unless l.o has an out of body expiereince at the streach run, he;s gone, and even if he does turn it up, this fate may already have been sealed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JuiceMonkey
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 1169
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lakers0505 wrote: | Two years of lamar odom is enough, and i think his time is up in L.A. TNT broadcast crew actually made a valid point, it was kenny smith, he said u always here about guys shooting too much, and you being the coach can controll that if u want..but hearing about a guy not shooting enough? SAy that a few times and u never hear it, how do u make a guy shoot more? And thats your answer u cant ton that up, like maybe u could get a guy too shot less. Lamar isnt a fit for this team, we messed up, caron was the better fit, this is a part of rebuilding u , usually dont get it all right, so im hopefull well fix it this off season.
Buss calling the T wolves to ask about K.G basically gave us , his current view of odom, he will be shipped for the right deal contrary too their view a year ago this time. Unless l.o has an out of body expiereince at the streach run, he;s gone, and even if he does turn it up, this fate may already have been sealed. |
im really really sick of hearing our own fans just absolutely trash lamar...its unwarranted and not fair. its like some of our own fans think they know the game better than the coaches out there. every coach who has ever had the guy has loved his attitude and game. look at it from a coach's perspective, a guy with star talent who actually wants to pass the basketball, rebound the basketball, and likes to keep the ball moving. its things like this that go unnaprecciated in an era where fans love the players who can do the coolest dunks, make the fanciest crossovers, and who can reject the ball the furthest into the stands. this guy is just undeservedly the whipping boy for the fans to pick on when in fact he has been one of the few positives we have had in an otherwise mediocre season. does he have problems?? of course, if he ever played up to his top10-level talent, we possibly go far, but he hasnt figured out how to put it all together yet...but thats still not reason for all the hate this guy has been getting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tenguygrst wrote: | | lakers0505 wrote: | Two years of lamar odom is enough, and i think his time is up in L.A. TNT broadcast crew actually made a valid point, it was kenny smith, he said u always here about guys shooting too much, and you being the coach can controll that if u want..but hearing about a guy not shooting enough? SAy that a few times and u never hear it, how do u make a guy shoot more? And thats your answer u cant ton that up, like maybe u could get a guy too shot less. Lamar isnt a fit for this team, we messed up, caron was the better fit, this is a part of rebuilding u , usually dont get it all right, so im hopefull well fix it this off season.
Buss calling the T wolves to ask about K.G basically gave us , his current view of odom, he will be shipped for the right deal contrary too their view a year ago this time. Unless l.o has an out of body expiereince at the streach run, he;s gone, and even if he does turn it up, this fate may already have been sealed. |
im really really sick of hearing our own fans just absolutely trash lamar...its unwarranted and not fair. its like some of our own fans think they know the game better than the coaches out there. every coach who has ever had the guy has loved his attitude and game. look at it from a coach's perspective, a guy with star talent who actually wants to pass the basketball, rebound the basketball, and likes to keep the ball moving. its things like this that go unnaprecciated in an era where fans love the players who can do the coolest dunks, make the fanciest crossovers, and who can reject the ball the furthest into the stands. this guy is just undeservedly the whipping boy for the fans to pick on when in fact he has been one of the few positives we have had in an otherwise mediocre season. does he have problems?? of course, if he ever played up to his top10-level talent, we possibly go far, but he hasnt figured out how to put it all together yet...but thats still not reason for all the hate this guy has been getting. |
Guy. read what u wrote!!! What he likes too do is NOT what we need from our max contract # 2 option. His game doesnt fit with kobe. Your thinking along the lines of isiah thomas. Jus because a player does this and this , doesnt make him a good fit for your team.
Now let me spin it another way with your argument.
If we was rebounding, moving the ball,passing, AS, a Third Option at a lower contract then it would be all well, but the reality of the situation is that , for in order for him too do what he is doing currently.
1. He needs too take a paycut
2. We need too have a second scoring option on the team
3. He has already reached his peak, im starting too believe, lamar hasnt improved much over his career dating back too his rookie year, he already 26 and hasnt improved drasitcally over his career.
4. He has seemingly regressed from last year , across the board.
5. Im not bashing lamar in that post, im stating the obvious, he doesnt fit well with this team or with kobe because of the way this team is constructed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JuiceMonkey
Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 1169
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lakers0505 wrote: | | tenguygrst wrote: | | lakers0505 wrote: | Two years of lamar odom is enough, and i think his time is up in L.A. TNT broadcast crew actually made a valid point, it was kenny smith, he said u always here about guys shooting too much, and you being the coach can controll that if u want..but hearing about a guy not shooting enough? SAy that a few times and u never hear it, how do u make a guy shoot more? And thats your answer u cant ton that up, like maybe u could get a guy too shot less. Lamar isnt a fit for this team, we messed up, caron was the better fit, this is a part of rebuilding u , usually dont get it all right, so im hopefull well fix it this off season.
Buss calling the T wolves to ask about K.G basically gave us , his current view of odom, he will be shipped for the right deal contrary too their view a year ago this time. Unless l.o has an out of body expiereince at the streach run, he;s gone, and even if he does turn it up, this fate may already have been sealed. |
im really really sick of hearing our own fans just absolutely trash lamar...its unwarranted and not fair. its like some of our own fans think they know the game better than the coaches out there. every coach who has ever had the guy has loved his attitude and game. look at it from a coach's perspective, a guy with star talent who actually wants to pass the basketball, rebound the basketball, and likes to keep the ball moving. its things like this that go unnaprecciated in an era where fans love the players who can do the coolest dunks, make the fanciest crossovers, and who can reject the ball the furthest into the stands. this guy is just undeservedly the whipping boy for the fans to pick on when in fact he has been one of the few positives we have had in an otherwise mediocre season. does he have problems?? of course, if he ever played up to his top10-level talent, we possibly go far, but he hasnt figured out how to put it all together yet...but thats still not reason for all the hate this guy has been getting. |
Guy. read what u wrote!!! What he likes too do is NOT what we need from our max contract # 2 option. His game doesnt fit with kobe. Your thinking along the lines of isiah thomas. Jus because a player does this and this , doesnt make him a good fit for your team.
Now let me spin it another way with your argument.
If we was rebounding, moving the ball,passing, AS, a Third Option at a lower contract then it would be all well, but the reality of the situation is that , for in order for him too do what he is doing currently.
1. He needs too take a paycut
2. We need too have a second scoring option on the team
3. He has already reached his peak, im starting too believe, lamar hasnt improved much over his career dating back too his rookie year, he already 26 and hasnt improved drasitcally over his career.
4. He has seemingly regressed from last year , across the board.
5. Im not bashing lamar in that post, im stating the obvious, he doesnt fit well with this team or with kobe because of the way this team is constructed. |
see i understand what ur saying and i really appreciate u actually composing something that makes sense to show ur points compared to a lot of lamar bashers that start attacking his character along with namecalling anyone who thinks lamar is anything other than an "average player"...but i dont really think his contract should be a part of this discussion, i mean brian grant is making more money than lamar. money is one of those things that is almost irrelevant when discussing nba players because honestly, they are all overpaid. but yah, im sure everyone wishes he would score more and take over as that consistent 17-20 points per game but hes still working things out with what phil wants from him. kobe had the same problems working in this offense except his problem was that he shot too much while trying to set people up while lamar shoots too little. i think we need to wait till this season is over because im still of the belief that this team can get on a roll and things will start clicking somewhat. anyways, the offensive end is really not the biggest problem. defensively the team is a mess rite now, and honestly it starts with our backcourt's defensive deficiencies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:28 am Post subject: Re: We need 2 superstars and that's it... |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | The truth is, many GMs want Odom. |
Who told you this, the homer across the street or the homer in that dome of yours?
_________________
Westside |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ^ nice too have a civilized argument one in awhile, but the D is the main culprit. This is more than anywhere else where i think phil has made the impact, moslty phil jackson coaching thats made the difference here, but e've slipped more than likely because coaching can onl shield u so much. Like what the mavericks tried too do a few years ago, they tried playing D with gimicks and what not but everyone knew they werent a Defensive team. But i think our mistake was not hangin on too caron butler, with the way he is tearing it up in washington, and he proved he could score alongside kobe, but hindsight is 20/20. The main reason with my tension with lamar now ,is that hot streak he showed around the deadline, they he vanishes again...like wheres waldo? But this will definitely be a set up or o home time for lamar and the lakers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: Re: We need 2 superstars and that's it... |
|
|
| KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The truth is, many GMs want Odom. |
Who told you this, the homer across the street or the homer in that dome of yours? |
I actually believe that there are more than just a few GM's who would like LO on their roster. The problem is, I believe that most, if not all GM's consider him to be nothing more than a role-player. And thus, they are only willing to part with role-players to acquire him.
That's why I don't think it's possible to get a superstar for him (or anyone else we could package with him).
At best, we will need to overpay for a "fringe" top-tier player (like a Lewis or Joe Johnson-type) who would be a better fit for this team. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TACH
Retired Number
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| thumpinghead wrote: | | unhappy superstay ay? someone stupid enough to trade to the lakers ay? Lets get Richard Jefferson for LO and George and Walton and Kwame and Smush and Sasha and Wafer and Green.....bunch of pathetic stiffs.... |
I would love to get RJ,.. but the Nets are going to try to send him to Minny for KG (plus others) over the summer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bounty
Star Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3946
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: Re: We need 2 superstars and that's it... |
|
|
| KA_2 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | The truth is, many GMs want Odom. |
Who told you this, the homer across the street or the homer in that dome of yours? |
Yea i have been curious about this too. So far the only SUPPOSED trades from other teams have been for team cancers or salary dumps.
We dont know Artest was avail. if you believe Walsh
We dont know PP was avail.
So really when have we heard of LO being so desired? I think he would flourish MORE on other teams, but as mentioned we will probably only get equal role player back. we just have to hope its a hard nosed player.
_________________
Lakers Tickets |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't be entirely opposed to trading Lamar Odom, but I would want to get value for him.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| angel wrote: | | I wouldn't be entirely opposed to trading Lamar Odom, but I would want to get value for him. |
OK.
Name me a player that you feel represents fair "value" for Lamar Odom (straight up). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would prefer to combine him in a package to upgrade. I don't think one-for-one would help.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| angel wrote: | | I would prefer to combine him in a package to upgrade. I don't think one-for-one would help. |
Well, that wasn't necessarily my question.
I'll put it to you again:
Name me a player that you feel represents fair "value" for Lamar Odom (straight up).
After which, please feel free to make a specific proposal (or two) where you would offer a package (which includes Odom) for an "upgrade." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
And 1
Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2586
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| And 1 wrote: | | angel wrote: | | I would prefer to combine him in a package to upgrade. I don't think one-for-one would help. |
Well, that wasn't necessarily my question.
I'll put it to you again:
Name me a player that you feel represents fair "value" for Lamar Odom (straight up).
After which, please feel free to make a specific proposal (or two) where you would offer a package (which includes Odom) for an "upgrade." |
Still waiting, Angel.
(sounds of crickets chirping in the background) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
THE_SHOES
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 29556
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wolfy is right about the options being weighed at Laker headquarters. It only makes sense.
Look at the Spurs (although I hate to)
(1)Tony Parker=Solid point
(2)Tim Duncan=Solid PF
(3)Mano Ginobolli=solid RP
You fill those Laker vacancies at 1,2 and add Odom 3 your moving toward the right direction
You put both, Kobe and Odom with two more players who are well groomed, and solid the Odom bashing ends immediately... Odom is not a solo star but, you put Odom with talents that know what they are doing and its another ballgame...
_________________
"According to ESPN.com's conference projections, the Lakers will finish 12th in the West, which prompted Bryant to tweet earlier this offseason, "12th I see.." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers0505
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ^Exactly , like is stated in the post before, the problem with odom is that he isnt a good fit for the the way THIS current squad is constructed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: We need 2 superstars and that's it... |
|
|
| And 1 wrote: |
Really?
Please feel free to offer up a proposal where Minny would give up KG to the Lakers.
Then do the same for Houston involving T-Mac.
In either scenario, I'm betting that you'll stop yourself and think Why in the world would they (Houston/Minny) do such a thing? |
Of course neither team would want to trade its superstar. Would the Lakers consider trading Kobe? FA is the only chance to add that player, not in a trade.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
