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lakez34
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Joined: 24 Apr 2001
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 Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Of course, many of Mitch and the Lakers problems stem from the abrupt manner in which they had to trade Shaq. It led to a bloated contract (Brian Grant) and two quality guys, but not necessarily All-Star-caliber players.
When one of them pretty much had to be shipped in favor of a big, our talent level again took a drop.
I can't necessarily blame Mitch for the way the Shaq situation went down, and since much of this, at least in the past two years, is a direct result of how much financial flexibility we have while signing players, it's difficult to finger him for a lot of the blame.
Has he done everything correctly, of course not. Should we accept that, seeing as how he's our GM. I say it's fine, considering the Buss' have just as much, if not more, pull on player personnel decisions as does PJ. |
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Kobe>Lebron
Star Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 3571
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| OX1947 wrote: | | I would love KIKI, I would fire Mitch now if it meant getting KIKI |
I dont know about Kiki. I wouldn't fire Mitch just for the sake of firing him. Dont jump in the water without a life raft. I like Colangelo, and I love Presti.
Look at the Dodgers guys. Paul Depodesta screws up a playoff team that had great chemistry. He is canned and he is replaced with Ned Coletti. Ned looks like he is serious about winning and not just playing tight wad moneyball. As a result Dodger fans have hope for the future.
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"I was laying myself on the line by saying, if this doesn't work in three to four years, if we're not back on the top then I will step down because that means I have failed,"
Jim Buss (2013) |
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The_Fiend
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 204
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| FIRE MITCH! |
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Kobe>Lebron
Star Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 3571
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| lakez34 wrote: | Of course, many of Mitch and the Lakers problems stem from the abrupt manner in which they had to trade Shaq. It led to a bloated contract (Brian Grant) and two quality guys, but not necessarily All-Star-caliber players.
When one of them pretty much had to be shipped in favor of a big, our talent level again took a drop.
I can't necessarily blame Mitch for the way the Shaq situation went down, and since much of this, at least in the past two years, is a direct result of how much financial flexibility we have while signing players, it's difficult to finger him for a lot of the blame.
Has he done everything correctly, of course not. Should we accept that, seeing as how he's our GM. I say it's fine, considering the Buss' have just as much, if not more, pull on player personnel decisions as does PJ. |
I see your point.
Firing Mitch should not be done because we are pissed or because we want anyone to blame.
It should only be done to improve our trading and drafting decisions for the good of the Lakers. I think it would benefit the organization I really do. Thats just my opinion.
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"I was laying myself on the line by saying, if this doesn't work in three to four years, if we're not back on the top then I will step down because that means I have failed,"
Jim Buss (2013) |
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The Dagger
Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Posts: 7276
Location: Sovngarde
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Mitch has proven himself an utter failure. He's the worst closer of any GM probably in history. I could go out to any used car dealership and find a better closer than him, and for a hell of a lot cheaper. I say cut our losses immediately and hire whoever's available. Anyone is better than him right now. I would even go as far as (gulp) give the GM powers to Phil Jackson.
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The great Laker Center Tradition continues.....Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol, AD....Gasol. |
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laker4life
Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7317
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Quote: | | a lot of people think some of this criticism isn't fair? |
No, we think it's mindless and that it's a waste of time responding to it. |
Mindless? Please explain.
I think some of the people have explained their logic and reasoning behind it. That is not mindless. It may be wrong but, it is definitely not mindless.
As for me, mitch definitely should be fired if we don't make the playoffs. Why? Because he didn't do his job of creating a winning franchise here.
He had the opportunity for the last seven years to bring in talented young players that could step in as we lost Shaq, Horry, Fox, Fisher, Grant, and AC Green.
Instead, he didn't do his job. Therefore. he should be fired. |
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PROUDLAKERFAN
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 569
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Absolutely, Mitch has done nothing for the Lakers to succeed in the last two years...he is incapable of signing good talent around Kobe, just a bunch of pretenders. |
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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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NO WAY!!!
I love Mitch. Signing Mckie for $2.5 million was brilliant.
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"Now, if life is coffee, then the jobs, money & position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold & contain life, but the quality of life doesn't change. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the coffee in it." |
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lakers0505
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 10701
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| mitch has done pretty well in the draft i will admit though, i mean cook isnt a stiff, he can play, nice role player, sasha looks very promising too me, but thats me and i never really critisized him last year as he was a rookie, and well we got bynum? All that bad i think not. Now siginings? He's more or less wasted our last two expections on junk, now their were u could have some beef with him. Free agaency overal outside of that isnt a factor because we havnt have the cap too be a true player in free agency during hi time as G.M. |
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KA_2
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1883
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | No, we think it's mindless and that it's a waste of time responding to it. |
Nope, it's mostly all (unfortunately) factual. Mitch Kupchak can't get the job done. If you think that's mindless, then you're just not thinking.
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40ptmachine
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 633
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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After 7 seasons I am a NON ALL STAR, in fact, I am a ROLE PLAYER making Superstar $$$ 
plus; I get standing ovations when I reach double digits |
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BigE32
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 8518
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: |
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YES!  |
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dubaholic1
Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
Posts: 3016
Location: Quality over Quantity
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: |
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No.
Poor old Mitch
He's Jerry's b i t c h
But win or lose
They all still get rich.
I feel sorry for us
The working class
Who pay good money
To watch a team suck ass. |
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golden1
Star Player
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 3926
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| Yes. |
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LA_Lakers_Rule
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
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Location: The X-Files
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |
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NO!
Ziggy wrote:
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No. I think he takes more blame than he deserves.
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Agree...
The trend in this thread is a prime example of how people will often respond in hysterical manners without introspective thought which has so often been the problem regarding world events throughout history and why wrong persons are placed in wrong positions. Of course the issue here is not earth shattering in the least and for the most part inconsequential in the scheme of things, but it does serve as an example of why people in mass reach dumb conclusions.
All one has to do is look back at any time when a dominant elite star players playing time comes to an end. In Laker history, Jerry West retiring, Magic retiring and now Shaq. You can look at any other organization and you will see the exact same thing happening time after time, the Bulls for example and on and on.
The reaction by so many on this forum I consider rather mindless and I feel that most are not taking into account all of the complexities that have occured recently and just simply are not looking at the big picture or even considering the fact that rebuilding simply takes time. If the Lakers are not competing in the post season at a high level in another couple of years then, yes those who constantly attack Mitch now will have a point. But at the same time I think these people will also have to conclude that the Laker ownership is ultimately at fault as well since as we all know Buss was not willing to sign Shaq and as a result placed the burden on the organization to make a move at a disadvantage.
I prefer to think that Buss knows what he is doing and let Shaq go at the right time. I also know that Shaq's trade demands hamstrung the organization as to what could be done. I also will take the view at this time that West is correct in his evaluation of Mitch and that what needs to be done to bring us back to championship play will get done, but certainly this simply takes time.
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Good judgment comes from experience and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. - Will Rogers ...  |
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VEN_150
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 374
Location: VEN_150, where else?
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| baller wrote: | | VEN_150 wrote: | | baller wrote: | | No I don't, and he won't be fired. His skill lies in his manipulation of the salary cap, Jerry West said he was a master at the cap. The lakers have a plan and it takes time to get better. He won't loose his job, because the laker organization knows that we're going to struggle these next two years until we're in position to do something. We're not the knicks where not going to make lateral trades and ruin our future. Man so many organizations and fans would give their left nut to have the success that the lakers have had and will have in the future. Wow we're having two tough years, and we'll probably have one next year too. It probably won't be as bad because our players will be more comfortable in the triangle and they'll better be able to evaluate who stays for the future and who is expendable. No one is going to trade to make us better, not the lakers. Just be patient. |
Then let Mitch reassume his previous assistant role as a salary cap manager and assist the new GM who will be in the mold of a Jerry West (i.e. someone who can get good deals done for the organization!) |
What deals do you want? Honestly anyone who can play is not getting traded here, and lateral moves are not going to get us anywhere. I'm so sick and tired of posts everytime a player signs with another team. As hard as it is to believe we are not the only team in the league and teams do not want us to be better. Jerry West, Kiki, non of these guys could do anything better with what we have. Our hands are tied right now, we are way over the cap, and we only have two good players. You need more than two good players to be a good team, no one is going to trade us two or three great players for odom. So it is what it is, we are rebuilding, deal with it. |
Baller, The reason that firing or reassigning of mitch is a valid question is because he's shown an inability to make the right moves. I think many fans here are willing to be patient as long as they can see that the right moves are being made such as bringing in balanced scoring and a little more consistency on defense. How do you like losing to a couple of the worst teams in the league (atlanta and portland) during our most crucial stretch of games (on a Kobe and Phil Jackson squad!). Look at the moves mitch has made....the shaq trade, letting go rush and jumaine jones go for Nothing, the Mckie acquisition (in leiu of getting Spreewell), and on top of that Kwame has been a complete bust while Butler is averaging near 20 in washington, the only good moves have been bynum (maybe) and turiaf, but that's not enough to be happy with what's going on right now.....We should've been better than we are now, no question about it. And yes, i know Jerry West could've done better than this. |
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Kobe>Lebron
Star Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2002
Posts: 3571
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| VEN_150 wrote: | | baller wrote: | | VEN_150 wrote: | | baller wrote: | | No I don't, and he won't be fired. His skill lies in his manipulation of the salary cap, Jerry West said he was a master at the cap. The lakers have a plan and it takes time to get better. He won't loose his job, because the laker organization knows that we're going to struggle these next two years until we're in position to do something. We're not the knicks where not going to make lateral trades and ruin our future. Man so many organizations and fans would give their left nut to have the success that the lakers have had and will have in the future. Wow we're having two tough years, and we'll probably have one next year too. It probably won't be as bad because our players will be more comfortable in the triangle and they'll better be able to evaluate who stays for the future and who is expendable. No one is going to trade to make us better, not the lakers. Just be patient. |
Then let Mitch reassume his previous assistant role as a salary cap manager and assist the new GM who will be in the mold of a Jerry West (i.e. someone who can get good deals done for the organization!) |
What deals do you want? Honestly anyone who can play is not getting traded here, and lateral moves are not going to get us anywhere. I'm so sick and tired of posts everytime a player signs with another team. As hard as it is to believe we are not the only team in the league and teams do not want us to be better. Jerry West, Kiki, non of these guys could do anything better with what we have. Our hands are tied right now, we are way over the cap, and we only have two good players. You need more than two good players to be a good team, no one is going to trade us two or three great players for odom. So it is what it is, we are rebuilding, deal with it. |
Baller, The reason that firing or reassigning of mitch is a valid question is because he's shown an inability to make the right moves. I think many fans here are willing to be patient as long as they can see that the right moves are being made such as bringing in balanced scoring and a little more consistency on defense. How do you like losing to a couple of the worst teams in the league (atlanta and portland) during our most crucial stretch of games (on a Kobe and Phil Jackson squad!). Look at the moves mitch has made....the shaq trade, letting go rush and jumaine jones go for Nothing, the Mckie acquisition (in leiu of getting Spreewell), and on top of that Kwame has been a complete bust while Butler is averaging near 20 in washington, the only good moves have been bynum (maybe) and turiaf, but that's not enough to be happy with what's going on right now.....We should've been better than we are now, no question about it. And yes, i know Jerry West could've done better than this. |
Great Post, Yes he is rebuilding but so far he is making all the wrong moves. We shouldn't have to start rebuilding from scratch if we already have Kobe.
One more thing folks he has been GM for 6 years, its not like he strarted last season. A good GM would have planned for the future. He should have been rebuiling around Shaq and Kobe for years.
_________________
"I was laying myself on the line by saying, if this doesn't work in three to four years, if we're not back on the top then I will step down because that means I have failed,"
Jim Buss (2013) |
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Bergamotichek
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 16777206
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Funny how Butler's pts keep creeping upwards. Next, he'll be averaging "near 30".
16.2 shooting 43.6% |
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purplehaze
Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 623
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| yes, we have not improved since last year at this time. We have a 10 million coach, traded caron used our 3 draft picks and had 3 expiring contracts to work with, still no better. Bryan Colangelo would have worked miracles with those assets. |
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JerryMagicKobe
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Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Of course Mitch should not be fired.
The peolpe who run the Lakers don't believe he should be, therefore, he shouldn't be. Buss has a plan for this franchise, he has detailed it to Phil, Kobe, and Mitch, and Mitch is carrying forward according to that plan. The only problem is that:
1. It Takes Time. The average turnaround time for a team that makes it to the finals (win or lose) to return to the finals after a major roster overhall (since 1970) is 17 Years. The Lakers, under Jerry West did it in 11 (1989 - 2000). The only "problem" is that as fans, we have unrealistic expectations, and expect immediate gratification.
2. Youth - Lakers are the second youngest team in the league, and that means erratic play, and bad defense. Mitch doesn't give a crap about signing mediocre veteran free agents to slightly improve this team. He would rather give the minutes to young guys, to see what they will do (good or bad).
3. They want cap space in 2007 so that they can significantly add to this team. All of you who are frustrated in watching some of our current players, please realize that this is a two year audition for the Lakers, who are looking for core players. Kobe, Bynum, Odom (or whoever they trade him for) are in. Mihm, Cook, Turiaf, Smush have shown improvement. Kwame has shown the Lakers things that they like, but has alot to overcome. Sasha, Luke, Devean, Slava, Green, Wafer, Mckie are questions. But they will not sign a medium tier player (borderline starter) until they make a significant move (Odom trade or 07 FA). They want the main pieces in place before they get complimantary players.
4. What deal did Mitch fail to make?
- Baron Davis, Steve Francis - If you added either to this roster, they would not be a championship contender, and you would be over the cap for the remainder of Kobe's most productive years.
- All of the FAs that this board was after this past offseason were overpaid BUSTS. None would have improved the team significantly.
- The rest are just the usual wishes - T-Mac, KG, JO, AI - Mid season deals didn't happen, maybe someone will move this offseason, but you still have to make the trade work for the other team, too.
5. Look at the teams at the top of the standings, and see how many times they were in the Lottery. San Antonio (Tim Duncan), Phoenix (Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Jared Jeffries, Luol Dang), Miami (Qyntel Woods, Dwyane Wade), Detroit (Rodney White, Darko Millicic) , Cleveland (Andre Miller, Jamal Crawford, DeSagana Diop, Caron Butler, Lebron James, Luke Jackson). Only Dallas has stayed out recently. Maybe you want Don Nelson as your GM? He'll keep you competitive and ringless.
And before you tell me Mitch should be fired, you have to say who you would hire in his place (don't cop out and give me "Anyone is better than Mitch" - I want names). |
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angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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The Lakers may give Mitch a raise for drafting Bynum and Turiaf.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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lakez34
Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2001
Posts: 6077
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | Of course Mitch should not be fired.
The peolpe who run the Lakers don't believe he should be, therefore, he shouldn't be. Buss has a plan for this franchise, he has detailed it to Phil, Kobe, and Mitch, and Mitch is carrying forward according to that plan. The only problem is that:
1. It Takes Time. The average turnaround time for a team that makes it to the finals (win or lose) to return to the finals after a major roster overhall (since 1970) is 17 Years. The Lakers, under Jerry West did it in 11 (1989 - 2000). The only "problem" is that as fans, we have unrealistic expectations, and expect immediate gratification.
2. Youth - Lakers are the second youngest team in the league, and that means erratic play, and bad defense. Mitch doesn't give a crap about signing mediocre veteran free agents to slightly improve this team. He would rather give the minutes to young guys, to see what they will do (good or bad).
3. They want cap space in 2007 so that they can significantly add to this team. All of you who are frustrated in watching some of our current players, please realize that this is a two year audition for the Lakers, who are looking for core players. Kobe, Bynum, Odom (or whoever they trade him for) are in. Mihm, Cook, Turiaf, Smush have shown improvement. Kwame has shown the Lakers things that they like, but has alot to overcome. Sasha, Luke, Devean, Slava, Green, Wafer, Mckie are questions. But they will not sign a medium tier player (borderline starter) until they make a significant move (Odom trade or 07 FA). They want the main pieces in place before they get complimantary players.
4. What deal did Mitch fail to make?
- Baron Davis, Steve Francis - If you added either to this roster, they would not be a championship contender, and you would be over the cap for the remainder of Kobe's most productive years.
- All of the FAs that this board was after this past offseason were overpaid BUSTS. None would have improved the team significantly.
- The rest are just the usual wishes - T-Mac, KG, JO, AI - Mid season deals didn't happen, maybe someone will move this offseason, but you still have to make the trade work for the other team, too.
5. Look at the teams at the top of the standings, and see how many times they were in the Lottery. San Antonio (Tim Duncan), Phoenix (Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Jared Jeffries, Luol Dang), Miami (Qyntel Woods, Dwyane Wade), Detroit (Rodney White, Darko Millicic) , Cleveland (Andre Miller, Jamal Crawford, DeSagana Diop, Caron Butler, Lebron James, Luke Jackson). Only Dallas has stayed out recently. Maybe you want Don Nelson as your GM? He'll keep you competitive and ringless.
And before you tell me Mitch should be fired, you have to say who you would hire in his place (don't cop out and give me "Anyone is better than Mitch" - I want names). |
Great post. I agree wholeheartedly. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| bambam wrote: | ...We already missed out on colangelo.
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And how did Colangelo build his rep? By trading away their best player so the team sucked, then using the low draft pick to draft a talented, young big man. Then trading away any value his team had so they could be a player in the FA market.
Sound familiar? Only if Colangelo follows his own model with the Lakers, he will trade Kobe for ending contracts, same as he did with Marbury.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| OX1947 wrote: | | I would love KIKI, I would fire Mitch now if it meant getting KIKI |
Same as Colengelo, Kiki has done little besided allow his team to suck bad enough that they have several low draft picks. If he did that here, you guys would run him out of town.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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purplehaze
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Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Mitch must go. Too many non moves or botched moves. |
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