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kobetime.com Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Jul 2002 Posts: 636 Location: LA's the place
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: Kwame trade could actually pay off... |
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so Kwame probably needs a summer of working out with Kobe and (we hope) with Kareem to figure out his offensive game. But he really is damn good on defense and in the playoffs he may be the guy to shut down the Tim Duncan's of the world. I think Phil just needs to let him play D and forget about offensive production in the same way Rodman used to. It certainly gives Lamar more looks at the basket and a chance to exploit SF mismatches. Thought? _________________ Burn the candle until #17! Chick Hearn lives. |
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Hector the Pup Retired Number
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 35946 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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That's what Phil has been trying to get him to do all season.
Sometimes he listens, sometimes he doesn't. |
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Michlake Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 3696
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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one good game and now Kwame has potential....
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
I hope the lakers will look to move him in the offseason but I dont think anyone will touch his contract. |
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uberzev Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jan 2002 Posts: 19120 Location: SDSU
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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O RLY? _________________ Lakers Gonna Lake |
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vvbandit Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Posts: 2413 Location: Newport Coast
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hector the Pup wrote: | That's what Phil has been trying to get him to do all season.
Sometimes he listens, sometimes he doesn't. |
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KA_2 Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Posts: 1883
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Why he can't bring that most nights, I have no idea. Same with Odom. The lack of mental strength and focus on this team is baffling, especially from it's 2nd and 3rd highest paid players. _________________ Westside |
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OmegaCues Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 574
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Kwame trade could actually pay off... |
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kobetime.com wrote: | so Kwame probably needs a summer of working out with Kobe and (we hope) with Kareem to figure out his offensive game. But he really is damn good on defense and in the playoffs he may be the guy to shut down the Tim Duncan's of the world. I think Phil just needs to let him play D and forget about offensive production in the same way Rodman used to. It certainly gives Lamar more looks at the basket and a chance to exploit SF mismatches. Thought? |
You are implying that Phil is expecting offensive production from Kwame, which is not true at all. It is well known that Phil wants Kwame to concentrate strictly on defense. But Kwame wants to be involed on offense, and this is where the problem is.
You have a good point that Kwame plays excellent defense against the power players such as Shaq, TD, KG. |
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Klassix Star Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 1994
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, but Kwame is a bum and always will be a bum. One game does NOT give him potential. |
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TheRod Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 2019
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously.....Kwame's confidence comes and goes with his offense. He actually believes that having a good game is directly related to the amount of points he has. It doesn't matter if he has 20 rebounds....if he has 2 points in that effort then his confidence drops.
It's Sad. I don't know who the hell is feeding him this junk, but dude needs to realize that defense, rebounding, and setting screens are MORE important than scoring. Who know's whether his mentality will change.....I hope it does. |
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Lemuel Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 80
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Klassix wrote: | Sorry, but Kwame is a bum and always will be a bum. One game does NOT give him potential. |
He has potential. The reason he's a bum is because he doesn't use it...even though he has the worst hands in the universe, he could at least be Ben Wallace with effort... |
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DicksHutnick Star Player
Joined: 09 Sep 2005 Posts: 2643
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Michlake wrote: |
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
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And we all know that post defense rarely factors into championship rosters, right? |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Klassix wrote: | Sorry, but Kwame is a bum and always will be a bum. One game does NOT give him potential. |
If he had only played well on one game, your point would be valid. But the truth is, he has played really well in the past 3-4 games, since he has adjusted to coming off the bench. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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NOODLESTYLE Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 2977
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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what Phil Jackson needs to do is stop trying to play Kwame alongside Chris Mihm, and the Lakers should try to get Kwame more involved in the offense. |
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critical_beatdown Star Player
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 2072
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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TheRod wrote: | Seriously.....Kwame's confidence comes and goes with his offense. He actually believes that having a good game is directly related to the amount of points he has. It doesn't matter if he has 20 rebounds....if he has 2 points in that effort then his confidence drops.
It's Sad. I don't know who the hell is feeding him this junk, but dude needs to realize that defense, rebounding, and setting screens are MORE important than scoring. Who know's whether his mentality will change.....I hope it does. |
Big Ben is a perennial all-star, and often scores less than 4 (sometimes 0). I know Phil is pointing that out, so I hope that Kwame's inner circle, friends, and family figure that out too.
If Kwame focuses on modeling his game after Big Ben, and goes out there with intensity carrying it out, the Lakers have a much better chance of contending for a title.
And, if we win a title next year or the year after, and Kwame is being our Big Ben, he's going to be a superstar on the biggest basketball stage in the world.
Plus, all along, he can work on his hands (juggling) and offensive game so that he becomes more of a 2-way threat, as he wants to be.
But first things first...wins...which means Kwame defends and boards like a champ. |
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The Dagger Star Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 Posts: 7276 Location: Sovngarde
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately Kwame will never approach Big Ben's game, not even a poor mans version - if he's lucky a broke mans version. His hands are made of stone and his head is made of mush. And most importantly he doesn't have the desire of a Big Ben.
If we're lucky he will at least give us solid post defense, more shot-blocking, more rebounding and less offense. Yes, less offense. He worries way too much about that. He should just concentrate on what he can do, and that's intangibles. He seems to get to caught up in scoring, and that's not his strength. I think this is Phil's vision - let's just hope it sinks in someday. _________________ The great Laker Center Tradition continues.....Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Gasol, AD....Gasol. |
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TheRod Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 2019
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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critical_beatdown wrote: | TheRod wrote: | Seriously.....Kwame's confidence comes and goes with his offense. He actually believes that having a good game is directly related to the amount of points he has. It doesn't matter if he has 20 rebounds....if he has 2 points in that effort then his confidence drops.
It's Sad. I don't know who the hell is feeding him this junk, but dude needs to realize that defense, rebounding, and setting screens are MORE important than scoring. Who know's whether his mentality will change.....I hope it does. |
Big Ben is a perennial all-star, and often scores less than 4 (sometimes 0). I know Phil is pointing that out, so I hope that Kwame's inner circle, friends, and family figure that out too.
If Kwame focuses on modeling his game after Big Ben, and goes out there with intensity carrying it out, the Lakers have a much better chance of contending for a title.
And, if we win a title next year or the year after, and Kwame is being our Big Ben, he's going to be a superstar on the biggest basketball stage in the world.
Plus, all along, he can work on his hands (juggling) and offensive game so that he becomes more of a 2-way threat, as he wants to be.
But first things first...wins...which means Kwame defends and boards like a champ. |
Big Ben is exactly the type of player that Kwame can POTENTIALLY be....the only question now is does he have the toughness to become even a fraction of that? |
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TLT Star Player
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1025
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Michlake wrote: | one good game and now Kwame has potential....
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
I hope the lakers will look to move him in the offseason but I dont think anyone will touch his contract. |
I don't know about one good game, anyone with his size and position will eventually get 12 rebounds. See Shaq O'neil |
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Michlake Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 3696
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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DicksHutnick wrote: | Michlake wrote: |
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
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And we all know that post defense rarely factors into championship rosters, right? |
of course post D is important but that is the ONLY thing the man can do
he sucks at:
passing
shooting
rebounding
Defensive rotations
shot-blocking
many other areas of basketball I cannot think of
you cannot be that one-dimensional and be considered a average player |
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B_Rabbit1212 Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 2085 Location: Santa Barbara / Davis
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Michlake wrote: | DicksHutnick wrote: | Michlake wrote: |
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
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And we all know that post defense rarely factors into championship rosters, right? |
of course post D is important but that is the ONLY thing the man can do
he sucks at:
passing
shooting
rebounding
Defensive rotations
shot-blocking
many other areas of basketball I cannot think of
you cannot be that one-dimensional and be considered a average player |
You certainly can....Think of all the shooters in the league. One dimensional.
He is not a bad rebounder either. Whenever he gets his minutes he'll get his rebounds on most occasions, especially on the offensive end. 12 boards last night, while constantly boxing out the likes of Big Ben and Rasheed should show he can rebound.
And his rotations are not bad either. He doesn't sky to block shots, but he shows on every pick and roll, then recovers, and can get in position to take charges, alter shots. He is a very good defensive big, just the numbers won't necessarily wow you.
As for offense, maybe they should try to USE HIM. He gets probably 1 serious offensive touch a game, and because of this he feels like he needs to force it to get his moneys worth. They need to try to include him, it could help him. |
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LkrsOvrMia Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 1514 Location: Chicago Burbs
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hector the Pup wrote: | That's what Phil has been trying to get him to do all season.
Sometimes he listens, sometimes he doesn't. |
Thank you. Some people seem to have a short memory around here and criticize Phil and others for Kwame's lack of consistency.
People acting like they've come to some ground-breaking idea or something.
Go Phil! Go Kwame!! Go Lakers!!! _________________ I recall a day when being a fan of the most storied franchise was a feeling of community. At the end of a day it (LG) should be a "For 'em!!!!!!!!!"
Go Lakers! |
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Michlake Star Player
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 3696
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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B_Rabbit1212 wrote: | Michlake wrote: | DicksHutnick wrote: | Michlake wrote: |
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
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And we all know that post defense rarely factors into championship rosters, right? |
of course post D is important but that is the ONLY thing the man can do
he sucks at:
passing
shooting
rebounding
Defensive rotations
shot-blocking
many other areas of basketball I cannot think of
you cannot be that one-dimensional and be considered a average player |
You certainly can....Think of all the shooters in the league. One dimensional.
He is not a bad rebounder either. Whenever he gets his minutes he'll get his rebounds on most occasions, especially on the offensive end. 12 boards last night, while constantly boxing out the likes of Big Ben and Rasheed should show he can rebound.
And his rotations are not bad either. He doesn't sky to block shots, but he shows on every pick and roll, then recovers, and can get in position to take charges, alter shots. He is a very good defensive big, just the numbers won't necessarily wow you.
As for offense, maybe they should try to USE HIM. He gets probably 1 serious offensive touch a game, and because of this he feels like he needs to force it to get his moneys worth. They need to try to include him, it could help him. |
I guess its just a difference of opinion.
You think one-dimensional shooters are average players. I think Brian Cook is below average. When you hurt your team that much on the defense, I believe you should be no better than the 12th man on the bench. |
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B_Rabbit1212 Star Player
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 2085 Location: Santa Barbara / Davis
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Michlake wrote: | B_Rabbit1212 wrote: | Michlake wrote: | DicksHutnick wrote: | Michlake wrote: |
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
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And we all know that post defense rarely factors into championship rosters, right? |
of course post D is important but that is the ONLY thing the man can do
he sucks at:
passing
shooting
rebounding
Defensive rotations
shot-blocking
many other areas of basketball I cannot think of
you cannot be that one-dimensional and be considered a average player |
You certainly can....Think of all the shooters in the league. One dimensional.
He is not a bad rebounder either. Whenever he gets his minutes he'll get his rebounds on most occasions, especially on the offensive end. 12 boards last night, while constantly boxing out the likes of Big Ben and Rasheed should show he can rebound.
And his rotations are not bad either. He doesn't sky to block shots, but he shows on every pick and roll, then recovers, and can get in position to take charges, alter shots. He is a very good defensive big, just the numbers won't necessarily wow you.
As for offense, maybe they should try to USE HIM. He gets probably 1 serious offensive touch a game, and because of this he feels like he needs to force it to get his moneys worth. They need to try to include him, it could help him. |
I guess its just a difference of opinion.
You think one-dimensional shooters are average players. I think Brian Cook is below averge. When you hurt your team that much on the defense, I believe you should be no better than the 12th man on the bench. |
I see your point there, but what about Michael Redd, Kyle Korver, Peja? They are held in high esteem throughout the league. That was what I was getting at. |
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NestT Star Player
Joined: 05 Jul 2002 Posts: 4327 Location: The Shining City on a Hill
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Michlake wrote: | one good game and now Kwame has potential....
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
I hope the lakers will look to move him in the offseason but I dont think anyone will touch his contract. |
If you care to look objectively it is more than one good game.
He has a two good games vs Shaq.
Another against Yao.
Another vs Brand.
Against GS he had an 18 pt effort( he had a string of about 8 good games there)
I would say he has had 17-20 good games out of 60.
Not where we want him to be but more than enough to demonstrate he has potential.
One good game?
What a bunch of MAJOR LEAGUE KRAPOLA! |
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LkrsOvrMia Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 Posts: 1514 Location: Chicago Burbs
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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NestT wrote: | Michlake wrote: | one good game and now Kwame has potential....
about the only thing Kwame does well on a basketball court is post defense
I hope the lakers will look to move him in the offseason but I dont think anyone will touch his contract. |
If you care to look objectively it is more than one good game.
He has a two good games vs Shaq.
Another against Yao.
Another vs Brand.
Against GS he had an 18 pt effort( he had a string of about 8 good games there)
I would say he has had 17-20 good games out of 60.
Not where we want him to be but more than enough to demonstrate he has potential.
One good game?
What a bunch of MAJOR LEAGUE KRAPOLA! |
Just wait 'til next year! Assuming Phil is as sold on the guy as we were led to believe.
I also believe Kwame will submit and begin working with Kareem.
It is known Kwame seeks out Kareem very little. And this is straight out ot the "Captain's" mouth. Kwame feels he is a "face-to-the-basket" type player.
Go Kwame! Go Lakers!! _________________ I recall a day when being a fan of the most storied franchise was a feeling of community. At the end of a day it (LG) should be a "For 'em!!!!!!!!!"
Go Lakers! |
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bigdog2 Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Posts: 166
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Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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The Dagger wrote: | Quote: | Unfortunately Kwame will never approach Big Ben's game | , not even a poor mans version - if he's lucky a broke mans version. His hands are made of stone and his head is made of mush. And most importantly he doesn't have the desire of a Big Ben.
If we're lucky he will at least give us solid post defense, more shot-blocking, more rebounding and less offense. Yes, less offense. He worries way too much about that. He should just concentrate on what he can do, and that's intangibles. He seems to get to caught up in scoring, and that's not his strength. I think this is Phil's vision - let's just hope it sinks in someday. |
When Big Ben was Kwame's age he was an ordinary player that was bouncing around the league. |
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